This is the first time I ever posted on a forum but am obviously looking for help and support thru this. To make a long story short, my wife and I have been married for 14 years and started darting back in high school. We are each others first and only serious boyfriend/girlfriend.
We have 2 daughters the ages of 12 and 9. My wife and I are in our early 30s so of course started having kids at a young age. We are now at the stage in our life where our kids are more grown up and we are fairly financially successful. Instead of enjoying this time, my wife has become more and more distant from me over the last few years. Over the last few years she has begun to go and watch the same band twice a month with her friend. I didn’t think much of it until a friend of the family was over once and was surprised I let my wife go out the way she was dressed. I then began to question it a little more in my head. My wife always would just say it is her source of fun.
She then began to come home later and later from these outings and even go to the bars with this band afterwards. I was still being fairly naïve and trusting husband at this point. I did sense my wife emotionally distancing herself from me more and more, but didn’t put two and two together (pretty stupid of me looking back).
Then back in May of this year, my wife had the talk with me. I kind of asked what was going on because of her distance and lack of empathy for me and she laid the MLC bomb: • Enjoys when I am away for work. Gives her space. • Hasn’t been happy for the last 10 years (looking back I can see it now) I would always ask what was wrong, but she would say nothing is. • Doesn’t have the same feelings for me. • She knows she would be hard to live with and that the issue isn’t me. • She doesn’t want to leave because everyone would think she is the bad guy. (Everyone that knows my wife and I well know that I am a people pleasure and have always done anything for her) • Wondering if we could still be friends if something happened. • Wished I would find someone else to act the way I want (Brought up to her a few times the lack of affections she gives me. Very self centered and won’t even kiss me on the lips anymore) • Asked if I would be able to keep the house if she left.
I comforted her and said we need to work on this together and it would be both of our faults if it didn’t work. For a few days I thought about this and was hurt more and more. Since then over the last few months we’ve had other talks where she has said: • Doesn’t want to lose control or say in the kids half of the time. • Doesn’t want me to try too hard and do nice things for her anymore. • Doesn’t want to lose our lifestyle. • Wants space.
I started to get paranoid and checked into things. I noticed in her email account she has emailed a suspected band member several times about assorted things. I also overheard her say once that she can’t get this guy out of her head and should probably quit going to the concerts. She has since gone on a paranoid lockdown and changed passwords on everything.
There are so many other details but this is kind of the summary. I’ve asked her to leave a few times because I don’t want to be somewhere I am needed but not wanted. Has always said I need to be the one that leaves. The more I look back also now on our relationship, I realize how dysfunctional and one sided it was. For our entire married life she has been so controlling and unaffectionate towards me. She is extremely moody and I feel has borderline depression issues.
We are still struggling together and more and more I am convinced it is an EA. I don’t believe it is a PA yet, but am worried. We have seen a marriage councilor once now (same person she saw individually twice) and her advice for me was to give her space and let her go to these concerts.
I am struggling I guess with what to do next. Do I continue to pursue and look at accounts to try and figure out what is really going on, which seems to be such a difficult roller coaster ride? Another option I’ve read is to detach. I find that so hard with being the affectionate one in the relationship
P.S. I also came to faith a little before she laid the bomb down on me. I now see relationships differently with how a good Christian marriage should be. It is so hard to take the moral high road with all of this when I know in my heart I must, but to see her inflict so much pain onto me. I’ve asked her a few times to not go to the concerts for a while so that we can work on our marriage and she refuses.
The position you're in is hard and bites! I hate to say you're spinning because you don't know for sure, I would find out. Over the years, I hate finding out the truth. But being in not knowing consumes your every thought along with effecting youself.
It sounds like there is an attraction for your W to this band member. I wonder if he knows she's married with kids. It doesn't sound like your W went out looking for an OM but may have found someone who is allowing her to life a different kind of life. Less responsiblities. It does sound like she's in MLC mode.
It also sounds like you're a wonderful father, which you need to focus on the kids. They will need to feel secure and loved doing this.
Just remember having faith in God, he is with you! He will get you though this! He will never give you more then you can handle! Although, sometimes it feels like you're at the max but ask him for help.
Instead of enjoying this time, my wife has become more and more distant from me over the last few years.
Over the last few years what else did she complain about? Specifically complaints about YOU.
Yep sound like your W is having a crisis of some sort. I really suggest that you read the resources several times.
When you do I would like to you answer this?
What can you do right now for yourself?
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• Enjoys when I am away for work. Gives her space. • Hasn’t been happy for the last 10 years (looking back I can see it now) I would always ask what was wrong, but she would say nothing is. • Doesn’t have the same feelings for me.
This ^^^ is what we call MLC script. Right now you need to understand and accept that this is HOW SHE FEELS. Just remember that feelings change. Regarding the “script” we refer to you – let me show you something.
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• She knows she would be hard to live with and that the issue isn’t me.
My wife said the same and honestly, this is really how your W feels. She is on a journey that could take a very long time. You John, will need to start your own journey.
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• Wished I would find someone else to act the way I want
My wife said the same thing – They often want us to meet someone else so that they feel justified by their actions.
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(Brought up to her a few times the lack of affections she gives me. Very self centered and won’t even kiss me on the lips anymore)
These type of statements to HER do YOU no good. Why? In short, everytime you say how YOU feel to her, you take the focus off of how SHE feels and make it about how YOU feel. Right now, as I said earlier this really is about HER.
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• Asked if I would be able to keep the house if she left.
Would you?
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She doesn’t want to leave because everyone would think she is the bad guy.
Once you read the resources you will understand that in HER mind YOU are the problem, so it is to be expected that she does not want to appear as the bad guy.
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(Everyone that knows my wife and I well know that I am a people pleasure and have always done anything for her)
So YOU doing everything FOR her tells you what about YOURSELF?
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• Wondering if we could still be friends if something happened
Yep – my W said the same things…all the while she was with OP. She wants to be friends to make HER feel better. The bigger question is can YOU be HER friend while she is going through this. Before you answer that…define YOUR definition of a friend first.
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I comforted her and said we need to work on this together and it would be both of our faults if it didn’t work. For a few days I thought about this and was hurt more and more. Since then over the last few months we’ve had other talks where she has said: • Doesn’t want to lose control or say in the kids half of the time. • Doesn’t want me to try too hard and do nice things for her anymore. • Doesn’t want to lose our lifestyle.
Back to one of my other questions…can you be her friend while she is off hanging out with the band. One other KEY point to make to you is this….
While you are giving her want she wants….(see below_
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• Wants space.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO FOR YOU?
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I started to get paranoid and checked into things. I noticed in her email account she has emailed a suspected band member several times about assorted things. I also overheard her say once that she can’t get this guy out of her head and should probably quit going to the concerts. She has since gone on a paranoid lockdown and changed passwords on everything.
Where there is smoke there usually is FIRE. I am not saying she is having an affair but sorry dude chances are that she is. What will you do if you find that she is sleeping with the band member?
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I’ve asked her to leave a few times because I don’t want to be somewhere I am needed but not wanted. Has always said I need to be the one that leaves.
DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE! She wants out and needs space well then she can pack her chit and leave.
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The more I look back also now on our relationship, I realize how dysfunctional and one sided it was. For our entire married life she has been so controlling and unaffectionate towards me. She is extremely moody and I feel has borderline depression issues.
So do you still want this M?
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I am struggling I guess with what to do next. Do I continue to pursue and look at accounts to try and figure out what is really going on, which seems to be such a difficult roller coaster ride?
Do not snoop (although I know you will) – Do not. You may not see it now but really you will only hurt yourself IF you confirm your suspicions.
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Another option I’ve read is to detach.
VERY GOOD MOVE. DETACH – keep your mouth shut and give her space.
Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Welcome to divorcebusting.com...officially! While it is easy to jump in and judge your wife's situation as MLC/depression, etc.....what it stops you from doing right away is looking at your patterns of interaction.
The best way to affect someone else's behavior is by changing your own. It doesn't mean things are your fault....but it can become a 'wait for her to come out of it game', or a moral judgment that halts you, if you start out looking at it as an MLC problem.
Why not work the Divorce Remedy Steps.....look at what you might be able to change in your own interactions to affect her behavior. You can become the solution!
Since you are brand new here, I'd like to encourage you to post in newcomers. We are here to help you.
Welcome to divorcebusting.com...officially! While it is easy to jump in and judge your wife's situation as MLC/depression, etc.....what it stops you from doing right away is looking at your patterns of interaction.
The best way to affect someone else's behavior is by changing your own. It doesn't mean things are your fault....but it can become a 'wait for her to come out of it game', or a moral judgment that halts you, if you start out looking at it as an MLC problem.
Why not work the Divorce Remedy Steps.....look at what you might be able to change in your own interactions to affect her behavior. You can become the solution!
Since you are brand new here, I'd like to encourage you to post in newcomers. We are here to help you.
The post that Cadet makes welcoming people to MLC does kind of assume that someone has read DR or DB so I must agree with DBMOD that you need to as a minimum read Divorce Remedy before you do any of the homework assignments.
You must start with a beginners mind, a basic tenet of what MWD states.
Instead of enjoying this time, my wife has become more and more distant from me over the last few years.
Over the last few years what else did she complain about? Specifically complaints about YOU. She never really complained about anything. She just has always been a frustrated and annoyed person pretty much her whole life. It isn't just with me, but with almost everyone. I think it would bother her then when I would try and cheer her up or try and help her figure out what is wrong. Her family does have medical depression in it, but she won't look into that.
Yep sound like your W is having a crisis of some sort. I really suggest that you read the resources several times.
When you do I would like to you answer this? I have the book Divorce Busting, should I read Divorce Remedy instead? Any other recommended resources?
What can you do right now for yourself? I know I should at least get a life. I am nervous though to be in fun situations with women as I know I am very messed up inside and hurting and am afraid I will fall into the same trap. I also am worried this will just encourage my wife to just go out more as at least now she feels some guilt. I know I need to do something different though as what I am doing isn't working because I feel like crap most of the time. I always felt that a good father, husband, and man doesn't have time for a lot of friends and hobbies, but that doesn't seem to be working too well for me right now...
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• Enjoys when I am away for work. Gives her space. • Hasn’t been happy for the last 10 years (looking back I can see it now) I would always ask what was wrong, but she would say nothing is. • Doesn’t have the same feelings for me.
This ^^^ is what we call MLC script. Right now you need to understand and accept that this is HOW SHE FEELS. Just remember that feelings change. Regarding the “script” we refer to you – let me show you something.
Quote:
• She knows she would be hard to live with and that the issue isn’t me.
My wife said the same and honestly, this is really how your W feels. She is on a journey that could take a very long time. You John, will need to start your own journey.
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• Wished I would find someone else to act the way I want
My wife said the same thing – They often want us to meet someone else so that they feel justified by their actions.
Quote:
(Brought up to her a few times the lack of affection she gives me. Very self centered and won’t even kiss me on the lips anymore)
These type of statements to HER do YOU no good. Why? In short, everytime you say how YOU feel to her, you take the focus off of how SHE feels and make it about how YOU feel. Right now, as I said earlier this really is about HER.
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• Asked if I would be able to keep the house if she left.
Would you? I probably financially could, but not sure I would want to. It is her beautiful dream house and I do enjoy it, but for me I don’t need all of that to be happy. I would probably easier on the kids though to keep it if it comes to that.
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She doesn’t want to leave because everyone would think she is the bad guy.
Once you read the resources you will understand that in HER mind YOU are the problem, so it is to be expected that she does not want to appear as the bad guy.
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(Everyone that knows my wife and I well know that I am a people pleaser and have always done anything for her)
So YOU doing everything FOR her tells you what about YOURSELF? That I have been a doormat.... Reflecting on things is powerful but sucks.
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• Wondering if we could still be friends if something happened
Yep – my W said the same things…all the while she was with OP. She wants to be friends to make HER feel better. The bigger question is can YOU be HER friend while she is going through this. Before you answer that…define YOUR definition of a friend first.
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I comforted her and said we need to work on this together and it would be both of our faults if it didn’t work. For a few days I thought about this and was hurt more and more. Since then over the last few months we’ve had other talks where she has said: • Doesn’t want to lose control or say in the kids half of the time. • Doesn’t want me to try too hard and do nice things for her anymore. • Doesn’t want to lose our lifestyle.
Back to one of my other questions…can you be her friend while she is off hanging out with the band. One other KEY point to make to you is this….
I know I need to try and have patience and give it time. I just feel so disrespected, unappreciated, and unvalued. I am so mad and hurt that I am having a hard time understanding how a person can do that. It feels like your getting dragged thru hell over the last 7 months or so and counting. While you are giving her want she wants….(see below_
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• Wants space.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO FOR YOU? I don't know yet. Definitely need to do more to keep my sanity.
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I started to get paranoid and checked into things. I noticed in her email account she has emailed a suspected band member several times about assorted things. I also overheard her say once that she can’t get this guy out of her head and should probably quit going to the concerts. She has since gone on a paranoid lockdown and changed passwords on everything.
Where there is smoke there usually is FIRE. I am not saying she is having an affair but sorry dude chances are that she is. What will you do if you find that she is sleeping with the band member? For me it would probably be over. Not sure I could ever get past that. In some ways I just want closure and move on because I'm hurting so much. I also know how bull headed she is and doubt she is willing to make very many changes.
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I’ve asked her to leave a few times because I don’t want to be somewhere I am needed but not wanted. Has always said I need to be the one that leaves.
DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE! She wants out and needs space well then she can pack her chit and leave.
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The more I look back also now on our relationship, I realize how dysfunctional and one sided it was. For our entire married life she has been so controlling and unaffectionate towards me. She is extremely moody and I feel has borderline depression issues.
So do you still want this M? A lot of days no. I'm not really sure why I hang on. I probably don't want to be the bad guy right now and kind of want to catch her in a big enough lie to be done.
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I am struggling I guess with what to do next. Do I continue to pursue and look at accounts to try and figure out what is really going on, which seems to be such a difficult roller coaster ride?
Do not snoop (although I know you will) – Do not. You may not see it now but really you will only hurt yourself IF you confirm your suspicions.
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Another option I’ve read is to detach.
VERY GOOD MOVE. DETACH – keep your mouth shut and give her space.
Thanks for the advice and insight. I'll probably work on detatching better and trying to have patience for now. Eric
So how does a person know if they should continue to snoop to find out the truth or try and just let things run their course? I hate not knowing what is going on. I did record some conversations recently after one of their concert trips and didn't come away with anything positive. No PA, but definitely EA from the conversations I could make out that she had with her three friends. I am going to feel so different now around those friends after hearing them talk about their spouses too. I think the whole group of them are in the same mindset right now. They all want to go out and get totally drunk and get all of this attention from guys. A few have a specific person they want more attention from. Not sure where to go or what to do now. I will try and make time to read the book Divorce Busting. I just started it a few days ago. This sucks, I can't believe someone you know so well and that you spent so much of your life with throws it all away like trash. They know what they are doing is wrong, but try and justify it in their head every which way they can...
I'm here to tell you that as difficult as it is to not snoop, you need to not snoop. And boy is it hard not to, but you're a strong person and can do this. Think of the biggest challenge you ever made it through in your life. Then tell yourself, hey, I conquered that challenge, I can be strong enough not to snoop.
Why should you not find out the truth and let things run their course? Because the truth WILL hurt. It can hurt so much that you may not be able to overlook what you find out. That's what happened to me. I snooped a lot. Started off at a moderate level, but then your imagination takes over as the incriminating information starts piling up.
I would check her bank accounts, for example. Debits showed up immediately...so I would know when she was out of town at baseball game with the other man. What was I to do then? Call and scream at her? Didn't change the fact that she had already went with him and all I could do was imagine and assume how much fun they were having together. Then, I'd start wondering, so are they getting a hotel room tonight? They'd be getting back awful late...etc...etc...
Drove me crazy. Paralyzed me really. Couldn't think straight at work, couldn't be there fully for my daughter, and on a more selfish but necessary level, I was simply wasting the time I should have been spending imoproving myself. My obsession of pursuing the truth, so that "I did not look like a fool", kept me from productively spending my time, GALing and improving me.
Hard as this is to hear, I think you have to "let" things with her and this band member guy run their course. She's an adult, so you cannot stop her from seeing him, you cannot make her want to stay with you, you cannot make her feel any particular way about you, you have no control over her. All you have control of is you, and how you choos to improve your life.
The noblest thing to do here is to remain LOYAL, but detach. Make yourself the man you want to be. If you succeed in doing so, she MAY find that attractive enough to turn her head back the other way toward you. She also MAY not. If not, then it's her choice and her loss. But you will only grow to resent her more if you find out additional things you can't live with or forgive as a result of snooping. You will not be giving yourself the time you need to improve yourself.
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
Over the last few years what else did she complain about? Specifically complaints about YOU.
You answered….
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She never really complained about anything. She just has always been a frustrated and annoyed person pretty much her whole life. It isn't just with me, but with almost everyone. I think it would bother her then when I would try and cheer her up or try and help her figure out what is wrong. Her family does have medical depression in it, but she won't look into that.
FTR, the question was intended to identify things that maybe YOU need to work on. BUT from reading your response I kinda came to the following:
a. you either have done nothing wrong that she complained about, which honestly I find difficult to accept. b. I noticed a lot of “she”, “her” in your response, which lead me to believe that YOU feel like the victim c. If she has been miserable her whole life and towards everyone, why did you stay married and 2) do you really want to be married to her and if so, what does that say about YOU.
I’m not trying to be an ass John, just pointing out what I see in your response.
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I have the book Divorce Busting, should I read Divorce Remedy instead? Any other recommended resources?
I would pick up the Divorce Remedy and read it oh…say about 3 times. Especially the section on mid life crisis. In addition, I will see if Cadet can post links to the resource threads. I suggest you read all of them several times.
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I know I should at least get a life.
Don’t let fear stop ya. Go get a life buddy. I would recommend that you avoid the old hanging out until the wee hours of the morning and coming home totally chit faced. JMO.
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I am nervous though to be in fun situations with women as I know I am very messed up inside and hurting and am afraid I will fall into the same trap.
What trap is that? Do you mean an affair? If you do, then maybe you do have something to work on. Maybe you need to work on controlling your emotions. Feel nervous around women ya say…hey so do I. Doesn’t mean that you cannot go out with Men (and no I don’t mean like really go out with a man  )
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I also am worried this will just encourage my wife to just go out more as at least now she feels some guilt.
If ya think Guilt is how ya want to KEEP her…think again. Would you like to remain in an R because of GUILT. Sound a little controlling if ya ask me. Hey, controlling…another thing that ya may want to work on.
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I know I need to do something different though as what I am doing isn't working because I feel like crap most of the time.
GALing will help. Do something that does not make you feel like crap.
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I always felt that a good father, husband, and man doesn't have time for a lot of friends and hobbies, but that doesn't seem to be working too well for me right now...
“when I knew better – I did better”.
If something is not working for YOU john – CHANGE IT.
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my response to the question of could you keep the house..
[quote]I probably financially could, but not sure I would want to. It is her beautiful dream house and I do enjoy it, but for me I don’t need all of that to be happy. I would probably easier on the kids though to keep it if it comes to that.
1) If you enjoy it why leave? 2) If it is better for the kids – why leave? 3) If you can afford it – why leave?
If you answer any of the question with…”cause she wants me to” – it is the wrong answer.
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That I have been a doormat.... Reflecting on things is powerful but sucks.
John, see your doormat comment up there ^^^^ . Read it again and then tell me why would YOU even consider leaving the house again.
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I know I need to try and have patience and give it time.
Time is on YOUR side. You will see that when you read the DR book and the resources.
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I just feel so disrespected, unappreciated, and unvalued.
Disrespected is state of mind THAT YOU allow yourself to feel. And FTR, I am sure that your W feel disrespected but chances are she can’t say that to you – YET!
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I am so mad and hurt that I am having a hard time understanding how a person can do that.
You will be surprised what some people can do. Do you think that you can control what another person does? Who do YOU control?
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It feels like your getting dragged thru hell over the last 7 months or so and counting.
Welcome to the world of MLC hell. 7 months ain’t chit…your just starting…
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In some ways I just want closure and move on because I'm hurting so much
CHOICE…what does this word me to YOU? Oh…and FTR, your ready to move on in 7 months? Sure about that?
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I also know how bull headed she is and doubt she is willing to make very many changes.
1) You can make changes and 2) never doubt someone else ability to change and 3) I bet she says the same about you. Do you think she is right?
Oh and re: snooping. I can tell you not to but your gonna do it anyway…but I tell you not to anyway.
Do not snoop.
Why?
It is controlling (especially if ya get caught and trust me you will get caught)
It will hurt YOU (and if you ever want a shot to recon – trust me ya don’t wanna know)
It is energy and time spent on HER when you could spend it on YOU.
God Bless, Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
