I think you want me to say you have to be careful not to be a doormat. Not to let your spouse walk all over you especially if they're having an affair or they won't respect you. I'm not going to do that. Every relationship is different.
Speaking for myself, I believe respect is vital to a M, especially the woman needing to respect her H. Anyway, I've seen people refer to this letter from David several times in the past. I find it hard to defend as not being a door-mat response from a LBS(especially when people call DB "The Little Bo-Peep Approach"), but mostly b/c it really goes against the grain for me.....knowing how disrespectful a S can be when involved in an affair. That is why I would like for one of the mods to explain the technique to me. Then, perhaps I could pass that along. I'm not trying to start a debate, but I do think Newcomers would get confused to be told to detach in one post and to use David as a role model in the next. I don't think David was detached, but that's just me.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I think David's approach demonstrates what the "behavior" would look like if we could really detach our own self interest from the marriage problems.
I'm out of the woods now and I've had time to heal and reflect on this stuff - and I think what it's about is the capacity for a spouse to truly understand that their H or W is an individual and as an individual they have the right to make whatever decisions they chose to about how they live their life.
In the middle of a marriage break-down it's very difficult to see that. You’ve been a “team” or perceived yourself as a “team” for so long that we think everything our spouse does is about us. One of the lessons we learn during a marriage break down is sometimes it doesn’t matter what we want – our partner is their own person and they do have the right to make their own decisions.
If you can detach yourself from them - detach to the point where you treat them like a friend/acquaintance and stop trying to get the outcome you want (your marriage back) often you have a better chance of your spouse realizing that you’re not the problem.
When we demonstrate to our spouse continually how they have hurt us, how angry we are, how crap they are for the choices they are making we are not attractive to them. The fact is they are leaving the marriage because they don’t like us and they don’t want to be married to us. “David’s” behavior gave his wife an opportunity to remember the man she fell in love with because he completely detached from the outcome.
He didn’t b!tch about the boyfriend, he didn’t wail about her moving out … he just said “Yep – whatever you want honey, it’s your life.” Then he was there for her when she wanted him as a friend. That may have been all he ever got –they may not have reconciled – but a friendship with the other parent of your children and a kind, open communication is surely better than an angry, bitter and twisted co-parent and acrimonious divorce.
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
I apologize because this is becoming a hijack, but you have interest in the subject, so I'll continue.
Sandi2--
I think a lot really depends on the kind of relationship you started with.
And it is interesting in the last few years that some folks really want to debate the topics. And folks give advice based on their opinion without really getting a lot more information out from the original poster, trying to find out their spouse's perspective. But that isn't useful or helpful and can be disastrous.
You don't do that, sandi, you really try to get to know someone before giving advice, and that's really wonderful. And you put in a LOT of time doing so, so I want to thank you from all of us at DB, because you are definitely an asset to the board. You have run in board circles that do call DB the "Little Bo Peep" approach, among other things, which means they really do not understand DB. I think you do, though.
You know how disrespectful YOU were in the affair, and what you've seen others do. You don't know what is going on in most posters lives. You only first know what they describe.
Virginia (not Walking, but our administrator), often says,
Quote:
one man's good advice is another man's downfall.
Marriages that are built on deep caring, mutual trust, great friendship, closeness, are not easily saved by coldness, the hard line.
Quote:
I find it hard to defend as not being a door-mat response from a LBS(especially when people call DB "The Little Bo-Peep Approach"), but mostly b/c it really goes against the grain for me.....
You also don't need to defend it. This isn't a site to defend the DB approach, it's the site to teach and learn how to use it well. It's the site to brainstorm DB techniques. There are other places for other techniques, so don't worry about defending it, and please feel free to tell your story about what works for you and why. What you do here is beautiful.
Like attracts like. Real love, exhibited in real giving, is extremely attractive. So in David's case, really caring for his wife no strings attached was extremely attractive, and I'll bet it had EVERYTHING to do with delivery. One person giving freely as a friend can do so, and it seems needy, and another person can do so and it is just freeing. I can think of friends who come across both ways. I'll bet you can too. I'm sure David was the latter.
So feel free to ask more questions, if you need them, this is out of respect for you, Mrs B and others on this thread--there is no need to justify for those who want to criticize it. You can only teach/explain to someone who is open.
I think David's approach demonstrates what the "behavior" would look like if we could really detach our own self interest from the marriage problems.
I'm out of the woods now and I've had time to heal and reflect on this stuff - and I think what it's about is the capacity for a spouse to truly understand that their H or W is an individual and as an individual they have the right to make whatever decisions they chose to about how they live their life.
In the middle of a marriage break-down it's very difficult to see that. You’ve been a “team” or perceived yourself as a “team” for so long that we think everything our spouse does is about us. One of the lessons we learn during a marriage break down is sometimes it doesn’t matter what we want – our partner is their own person and they do have the right to make their own decisions.
If you can detach yourself from them - detach to the point where you treat them like a friend/acquaintance and stop trying to get the outcome you want (your marriage back) often you have a better chance of your spouse realizing that you’re not the problem.
When we demonstrate to our spouse continually how they have hurt us, how angry we are, how crap they are for the choices they are making we are not attractive to them. The fact is they are leaving the marriage because they don’t like us and they don’t want to be married to us. “David’s” behavior gave his wife an opportunity to remember the man she fell in love with because he completely detached from the outcome.
He didn’t b!tch about the boyfriend, he didn’t wail about her moving out … he just said “Yep – whatever you want honey, it’s your life.” Then he was there for her when she wanted him as a friend. That may have been all he ever got –they may not have reconciled – but a friendship with the other parent of your children and a kind, open communication is surely better than an angry, bitter and twisted co-parent and acrimonious divorce.
Thank you to everyone for your comments. I have read alot of the threads suggested and I think I understand more.
I spoke to my SIL last night, and it really set me back. Though my H family are supportive, they think I'm crazy for still holding on and advise me constantly to walk away and to not be a doormat, there exact words are "you deserve better". My SIL shared some comments my H made while he visited them at Christmas which crushed me because I was seeing a difference in the way he spoke to me as a glimmer of hope, but his comments which included "I'm going to try and make a go of it with the OW" and "My W and I just drifted apart" made me feel like I was reading too much into his words and just kidding myself. Snooping is definately not worth the effort.
Reading those other threads has helped me to understand my interaction with my H shouldnt be about my personal gain, but of being a friend that he can always rely on.....which i have to say does whiff abit of being a doormat after all the pain he has caused, but i guess if i want to achieve my goal of being back together then its something i hope i can deal with.
But what if it never works out between us? He will have got what he wanted....the great escape...and I will be the biggest looser of all time. I guess my worries are I dont know if I can be happy being just his friend, I dont want to go hrough all this just to end up divorced buddies. I dont know if Im strong enough for that.
is this not the same as allowing you partner to treat you like a door mat? I don't see the difference. Maybe its just me. I understand you don't allow your "friends" to kiss you etc but I wouldn't allow a friend to lie and cheat me and to then lend them money and help them move out.
If I feel that I don't know how to explain the article, then I don't know what else to do but call on a moderator. I didn't want to leave you hanging high & dry.
So, anyway, I hope can decide how to DB better, now.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
H has been off work poorly. I couldn't drag myself out of bad, been feeling really low for days. He's been texting me loads while he has been off. Mainly general chit chat. Tried acting like a friend and didn't bring R or OW into conversation. It was nice to converse with him esp. after everything that has passed over last few days. Will not read too much into it or spend next 48hrs thinking non-stop about him. Going to go into town tomorrow and take mind off him.
Though sometimes I have my low days and wonder why I am bothering, when I'm with him or speak to him I remember the awesome guy I married I know all this hard work and pain is worth it. I just need to keep remembering this on those dark days. Easier said than done!
