Here is the first installment of happy-again's old posts. I archived them in pdf format and since they disappeared from the archives I am reposting them. I can't figure out how to directly copy and paste the old formatting into the new blog. If anyone can tell me how to do that I will try. As is, I have to clean up the pasted text so it is legible so this will take awhile. I have other commitments today but here is the first thread and I will get back to pasting more when I can. --GAG
Re: Let the truth be known MikeinMidland 01/18/06 12:11 PM
That's OK, Cat. The important thing is that a flame-out isn't the first and only response. Some guys would take that as a challenge like I did, but others would just walk. I thought some of the stuff you said. And I can see now that I treated my wife a lot like your H treated you, but I wouldn't have admitted it in my first post.
We were young when we got married and had kids early. I knew it was a mistake, yes I loved her but wasn't ready for marriage. Nothing I ever did was good enough for her so I decided to stop doing it. I feel I was sold a bill of goods, she changed after the kids came and put them first. The sex was boring, and she gained like 30 pounds which made her ugly. She blamed the weight on the antidepressants, I think she was just too lazy to excercise. She was always interfering in everything I did. Wanting to read all of the cell phone bills and ask about the calls to my friend, so what, she didn't care about me. So now I have my own life, my own space, I see my kids and I give her money that is all I need to do for her. For all of our married life she didn't need me or love me or want me and all of a sudden she can't live without
She just wants to control me again and take over. Well I am finally out of her grasp, we are friendly to each other and polite. There is no hope for this marriage because if I let my guard down she will start again, as it took me years to get the courage to leave I can't go back now. Now she can go and get a job and help to support the family as I can't support her forever. My kids will be OK, I have told them that we love them and I am willing to do anything for them. I am sure they will eventually see the truth that their mother pushed me out of the marriage with her control and anger issues. If only she would have listened years ago it would have worked out for us, now she has made everyones life bad because she refused to change.
Now you're getting somewhere. It would help if you gave your ages, time married, kids, etc. Just for perspective. Example: Me 43, wife 46, married 16+. Son 15, S12, S5. I was older, and it was my 2nd marriage, but I was still blindsided by the Mommy gene. It took me a long time to figure out that their job is biologically determined, and you're not going to change that. I wanted kids, but I didn't count on being placed dead last for years and then only considered if there was a threat to the income. I for sure thought sometimes that my wife only wanted my sperm and my paycheck. But I got the vasectomy 10 years ago, and she knows I'll support them forever. So why does she still care?
_________________________ T2SP 01/18/06 12:47 PM
YOU HIT A BUTTON WITH ME.......... After reading your last post I thought you were my H posting this. I saw flashbacks of my life while reading this. I know you aren't for one, he doesn't have a computer and also you said she could get out and work but I already work. I was hit hard by this post.
Quote: We were young when we got married and had kids early
T2SP: My H and I were married young too. He never got a chance to see what it was like on his own. Now he is going through some sort of MLC and I am hoping he finds his way home.
Quote: she changed after the kids came and put them first.
T2SP: Like your wife, I also put the kids first. I know I shouldn't have but it just happened.
Quote: and she gained like 30 pounds which made her ugly
T2SP: I gained weight with the preganancy of my first child and it took many years to get it off. I felt fat and ugly but didn't do anything about it. Right before my H left I lost 40 pounds. I know his leaving had nothing to do with my weight.
Quote: Wanting to read all of the cell phone bills and ask about the calls to my friend
T2SP: I checked cell phone bills and asked him about the calls. I would hound him about them. I was accusing him of doing things he wasn't doing.
Quote: I see my kids and I give her money that is all I need to do for her.
T2SP: My H pays the mortgage and gives me money if I need it. He does see the kids.
Quote: Well I am finally out of her grasp, we are friendly to each other and polite. There is no hope for this marriage because if I let my guard down she will start again, as it took me years to get the courage to leave I can't go back now.
T2SP: My H has told me the same thing. He is afraid if he comes home things will go back to the way they were. Right now we get along and don't argue.
Quote: it took me years to get the courage to leave I can't go back now.
T2SP: My H said the same thing. Okay, now that you have described me to a T I want to say something to you. You may have been young when you got married and had kids but you did it and you need to own up to your responsibilities. When you got married you had to have loved your wife and I am sure you still do somewhere in that cold heart of yours. You need to chisle the ice away and start over. Let her know you want to work on the marriage but that things will have to change. Let her read the DR book and see what she thinks. Since I am the one who was left, I read it and it helped me alot. I can now see how controlling I was. I was a total -itch. I look back and wonder how in the world my H lasted with me as long as he did. Sometimes I couldn't even stand myself. Everyone changes. I have learned to love myself again. I have learned to forgive myself for being the way I was. I have let go of my H to an extent and let him see that I have changed. He has his space and freedom now, but he doesn't have the hapiness. I can see it in his eyes. I hurt him so much that it is going to take a long time to show him that I am the person he wants to be with. Let your wife know you don't want to be with the controlling person. It will take time, don't just give up right now. You need to work on things. Maybe if you stay gone for a bit and let her see the mistakes she has made then things will work out. You need to give her a chance. I refused to change before because I didn't think my H would ever leave me. She might have felt the same way. Believe me, if she loves you and really wants you back she will do whatever it takes to get you back. You have to give in a little bit too. It is a 2 way street. You need to help her with the change. Maybe you two just need some time apart. Don't give up altogether though. Think of the kids. You might think they are ok but I am sure they really aren't. They try to stay neutral and don't want to say anything to hurt either one of you. Give it a couple days and rethink your outlook and attitude. Coming from me as someone who is/was in your wife's shoes. People change. I saw the monster I had become and have changed. All I ask in return is for my H to give me another chance. _________________________ T2SP (Trying2StayPositive) M: 41 STBXH: 38 Married 6/17/89 Separated since 2/20/2005 2 kids (15 & 17 yr old girls) Divorce is in progess.
Forgot to say THANKS to you. Your post opened my eyes wider than they have been in a long time. I now know I must step up more to work on my own situation. I am going to become the person my H fell in love with years ago. I am going to be that fun loving person again. He isn't going to know what hit him. He will fall in love with me all over again. Thanks for the wake up call finally_free.
The last few years have been miserable so I moved out a year ago. She cried and begged and wrote letters saying she was sorry. She even called my friend and interfered with that relationship. She even tried to seduce me, wanted to ML to me, and I turned her down flat. I just don't want to be controlled anymore I am sick of cowering to her. She took care of everything and I let her which was my mistake, but she wouldn't ever let go of the steering wheel when it was time to hand it over. Sometimes I get so frustrated and even when I know she hasn't done anything wrong I want to prove that she is still the same manipulative B****h she has always been so I push her buttons on purpose. I think she is catching on so she doesn't always react anymore, more manipulation to get me upset even more. She will not let go of me, and I have told her it is over, but she lives in this false hope that maybe I will change my mind.She thinks God will change my heart. Why should I stay if I can't stand her?I am gone now and have my freedom and at least I get to make my own choices now without her approval. I do love her but I will not let my guard down ever again to her. I told her that she will find someone else and will get over me. I will never again tell her I love her or she will think she has some hope. Wouldn't you know it, now she has lost the weight, and looks great, but she wouldn't do it for me when I asked her to. Besides if she cared why doesn't she ever call me why do I have to be the one to make all of the calls? She used to call non stop, now I never hear from her unless it is about the kids. It is probably better that way because I don't want her to get any ideas in her head that I want to talk to her. She tries to be so nice, but I can see through that ploy too, eventually she will crack and I am not falling for it. I am just waiting for her to do something underhanded like getting my pay attached or something or harassing me at my job. People just don't change like that, she is only trying to suck me back into her world again. I am a much better person now, I have respect and people like me for myself, and I can come and go as I want to. She would only take that away from me again. Besides if I went back to her if I took a chance she would think she was right and that would make me weak again, and I will not be that man again.
Ok, first thing that comes to my mind when I read your posts is this: Is your W a member here? I get the impression that maybe your W posts here and you are trying to get a message across? If not, then may I ask what is it you are expecting to get from this board? Some of us here are trying to get our WAS's back, some are back together and trying to repair our marriages, and some are trying to support each other through and after divorce. You seem pretty strong in your opinion that you are "finally free" and DO NOT want to get your W or your marriage back. I guess I am just asking for your expectations of us, if any at all.
Maybe some of you left behind spouses don't get it. There is a reason we left you, do you ever look at yourselves and your own actions or just have continual pity parties about how badly you were treated. Stop acting like you didn't see this coming. I never committed adultery, I didn't steal or lie or use drugs or become an alcoholic or beat my wife. I went to work every day, I spent time with my children, I handed over my paycheck. All I wanted was to be heard and loved and noticed and to stop being treated like a stranger in my own house. I guess my expectations are this, why should I not feel like the victim? Why does everyone feel sorry for her and the kids?
_________________________ cat03 01/18/06 02:27 PM
jeez, if I didnt' know better I'd swear you are my H, I can't believe the similarites. -My H always wanted me to loose weight, I never had time nor he helped enough for me to take a break, your W lost weight because of the pain she is in now, I lost 13lbs in 2 weeks out of pure sadness. -I took care of all details because I had time at work to make calls and research stuff, I thought I was lifting a weight off him, not being controlling. She prob doesn't call you because most of us here know that those who walk away dont' want to feel caged or pursued, it's prob killing her not to call you, she is giving you space not ignoring you. I, and for all I know your W, dont' believe God will change your mind and make you come back, He gave us free will and can't make us do stuff, she's prob just praying you open your heart to forgiveness. Yes, people change just like that, I gain nothing by telling you this but I will never ever be that bossy uptight person I was, I saw how ugly that made me, I cringe when I remember the way I used to talk down to my H, as if he were a child. I too married young and had kids, you have to remember that marriage alone can be stressful, you both had it tough, dont' put 100% of the blame on her. The fact that she is being nice doesn't mean she is being manipulative, she is trying to correct her attitude, one doesn't hurt this much not to learn anything. Going back wouldn't make you a weak man, it would make you a strong good father and man who loves his family and who won't go let his family go down the drain without a fight. You are too scared to fail, too selfish to see you are damaging your children. You think they are ok? Wrong, you will scar them for life, they aren't OK, never will be. I was a child of divorce, I felt alone, I had food and a home, but those things didnt' filled the void I felt. I always thought my heart was like one of those homes touched by a hurracane, seems alright outside, but always thought my heart was like one of those homes touched by a hurracane, seems alright outside, but when you look up, the whole ceiling is missing. If you haven't read any other posts you must see that we do see how we were and how we failed. No, some of us didn't see this coming because our spouses shuted us from their lives way before they left. My H also felt not needed nor wanted. I thought I was showing my love by being a good mother and keeping the house and cooking good meals (I work FT btw). This was not the way he wanted to be loved, he could care less about he home or if we ate hotdogs all week. He wanted time and more sex, something I thought we could wait on until the kids got older and then we'd have more time for each other. I always loved and wanted my H, but he never felt it because I didn't fulfill the needs he had in mind. No one said you aren't hurting, I know my H is too hurt and that's why he isnt' ready to come back now and I am not asking him to come back until he feels ready to do so. If you left was because you were hurting, I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing the fact that you label your wife as manipulative, when every efford she does to gain your trust is misread by you and makes you even more distrustful of her. People change, you've changed haven't you? you say you feel better now, you've gain confidence. She's given 18 years of her life to you and your family, how can you blame her if she is doing all she can to keep her family together? When all is said and done the only thing that matter in this life is your family, don't loose them just because you are scared and think you'll loose face by coming back. _________________________ theresa475 01/18/06 02:31 PM
did you love her like she needed to be loved??? My thing with my H is he never treated me right and so why would I want to reciprocate the feelings of love if there was none??? You handed over your paycheck and that is great but were you there emotionally as well???? My H left me with no job, to small children 4 and 1 and another on the way. If he was so unhappy then he should have said something along time ago. I am sorry to say I did not see this coming and yes I do feel like a victim right now. My H has no responsibilities besides giving me money.....
Yup...this was a good read. Saw myself all over in it. But I also realized these things shortly after H left, and I took a long,hard look at not just his actions, but my own. Hindsight and all that.
Hope you post more. Maybe some newbies will read and believe that this possible painful discovery about their own actions in their marriage can be worked on...to better their own lives, and possibly make a difference in their damaged relationship.
Women are angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We are flexible
I haven't seen a lot of pity parties around here. I do see people who are hurting, and I see others who give them encouragement, not to give up on their marriage. What I see a lot more of, is people admitting where they messed up with their marriages, how they may have pushed their spouse away or taken them for granted. And figuring out how to do it differently, then demonstrating that to their spouse over time, until that spouse can get comfortable that their new behavior is sustained. If you have been out of the house for a year, then this venting you are doing isn't about what she did when you were together. I'm guessing that she contacted your "friend" many months ago, as well, not recently. You are angry that she has stopped chasing after you and lost some weight. That's what we call "Getting a Life." First off, you didn't have kids for maybe 7 years. You made it sound you got her knocked up in high school. No matter how young you got married (and 22 isn't that young) you were plenty mature enough to go into fatherhood with your eyes open. Then, you had 4 kids in 6 years. And she put the kids first. Big surprise. You have the advantage: you can cut your own meat! The youngest is probably in kindergarten, right? Right NOW is when your marriage should have gotten it's "second wind." The kids don't need her so much. She's getting a full night's sleep most of the time. She's got the time and energy to go to the gym and lose that weight you're so fixated on. In a few years the oldest can babysit. I have no idea what you're so pissed about. You didn't like her bugging you all the time. Well she quit, what's the problem? She's lost weight--why should you care? You're done with her. Is she keeping the kids from you? Going to court for more child support? NO. And if you want her back, all you have to do is tell her. Maybe it took you leaving to let her know you were serious, but she has changed. She won't take you for granted again, and you wouldn't let her if she tried. You are like the luckiest man on this site. Just don't wait too long. And maybe you'd better get to the gym yourself, just in case. Because your wife is NOT going to wait for you forever.
Finally Free The thing is as someone who took vows you should have expressed your feelings and you should do everything it takes to save your m. Most WAS are not happier after they leave. You also don't seem to see what you did wrong in yor m and are blaming your w. You need to get healthy otherwise you are just taking the baggage from your m with you. You won't be happy until you can work on your issues and know where you went wrong in your m and are able to forgive yourself and your w. One of the first lessons in being a WAS is learning where we went wrong, taking responsability for our own actions and working on changes to make us better people, better spouses, parents etc. It seems you have not looked at your responsability in your m.
Wow.....I don't know where all your anger here stems from. But it is apparent in your harsh statements. You totally avoided my question as to whether or not your W is on this board. At any rate.......I'll play ball here.
Quote: Maybe some of you left behind spouses don't get it.
StrongEnough: No, I think most of us get it. That is why we DB to change ourselves for ourselves. When DB'ing...it's for US not the our spouse's benefit.
Quote: There is a reason we left you, do you ever look at yourselves and your own actions or just have continual pity parties about how badly you were treated.
StrongEnough: Well, I suppose a little bit of both. When spouses walk out, no matter how bad things were in the marriage, it is a shock to us. For better or worse. Some of us took our vows seriously. It's not our fault our spouses didn't. I think we deserve a little bit of pity here and there from the damage the WAS does to the family unit. Are you not here having your own little party?
Quote: Stop acting like you didn't see this coming.
StrongEnough: Again, for better or worse.
Quote: never committed adultery, I didn't steal or lie or use drugs or become an alcoholic or beat my wife.
StrongEnough: That's great. How about emotional or verbal abuse? Calling her manipulative, B!tch, etc. could be taken as verbal abuse. Did you ever act out when fighting I.e. throw things, break things? Emotional abuse...scare tactic..and manipulation all rolled into one. WAS's are rarely, if ever, perfect and flawless.
Quote: All I wanted was to be heard and loved and noticed and to stop being treated like a stranger in my own house. I guess my expectations are this, why should I not feel like the victim?
StrongEnough: Financial support is one thing. Emotional support is another. I am not going to disagree with your victim statement. You are very much a victim. Just as we all are and our WAS's are. THe difference between the left behind spouse and walk away spouse is that we are victims of different circumstance.
Quote: Why does everyone feel sorry for her and the kids?
StrongEnough: I'm, guessing that's because walked away from them all. Do YOU feel bad for walking away from your children? I think you need to take an honest look at yourself here. Are you just angry that now your wife is changing into the person you always needed her to be, and it took you leaving to make that person come out? You think that her changing is another way to manipulate you. Are you 100% certain that she even wants you back? You are only giving us bits and pieces of your situation and the angry tone that I am picking up on in your posts is a bit alarming. Am I bashing you? Maybe, but a little part of me thinks you came on this board to try and stir up some sh!t. You can correct me if I am wrong.
I think that if I didn't know better you could be my H but let me tell you what I think I think you are a self centered s.o.b and you really don't need to be here b/c you have already made up your mind to leave well if I was your wife I think I would be glad you left but the people here are holding out hope to save their M's and be friends if nothing else if that's not your intention then you have already answered your question with your user name finally free then be free and see what it gets you. Do you know the statics on kids in D and that atleast 60% of 2nd. M end in D. I hope that I didn't offend you but if I did then I guess you deserve it and even though my H has filed and it looks as though I will be getting D I want to be his friend for the sake of my kids and I think you should do the same I haven't read anything that is positive in your post to save your M so i think you should find somewhere else to get advice b/c here is not the place for you.Joa.
_________________________ AmyC 01/18/06 03:34 PM
Your anger comes from the fact that she is still in your heart and now that she has changed, you just might have to do the same. And change sucks, we all know that. But it's necessary and it's a good thing and you need to do it. How's the situation looking with the mirror now facing you, feeling_free? I noted something in your last post.
Quote: I just don't want to be controlled anymore I am sick of cowering to her. She took care of everything and I let her which was my mistake, but she wouldn't ever let go of the steering wheel when it was time to hand it over.
To that I ask: Who decided when it was "time to hand it over" and how did you let her know that?
Keep posting. This is a good place to work out all that anger constructively. Your original post had an eye-opening effect on me, like it did on so many others. You are here for a reason.
_________________________ T2SP 01/18/06 03:34 PM
I want to clarify a couple things. I made it in my post sound like I agree with the way you treat your wife...I don't. I don't find anything positive about your posts. I just got to see in writing what my H must have felt (yes, past tense) like. After rereading your post I find you are totally opposite of my H. At least he is man enough to give me another chance. He never called me names or verbally abused me. We are still separate but we get along now and things seem to be getting better. This shows that people do change and people should be given a second chance. After reading again on here I see you as the one who is pushing. If you think it is over then why do you care what she thinks now? I don't see it as interferring with your relationship with your friend. If it was only friendship then your "friend" shouldn't have gotten upset. You are the one that lost your wifes trust. It sounds to me you are the reason she turned into the person she was. You handed her your paycheck...you could have done the bills and stuff together. It sounds like you were coming home to "mom" to take care of you. That is why you got upset that her attention went from you to the kids. You seem jealous of the attention they got. You said something about not giving her false hope. Well, to me you are doing that because if after a year she still has hope then you must be doing something to make her feel this way.
Quote: Wouldn't you know it, now she has lost the weight, and looks great, but she wouldn't do it for me when I asked her to.
T2SP: You should have loved her no matter what she looked like. A person should never lose weight or try to change themselves for someone else. They do things for themselves.
Quote: Besides if she cared why doesn't she ever call me why do I have to be the one to make all of the calls? She used to call non stop, now I never hear from her unless it is about the kids.
T2SP: Isn't this what you want? I thought you didn't want anything to do with her? You need to make up your mind on this.
Quote: I am a much better person now
T2SP: If you think you are a much better person now then I would really hate to have known you before.
Quote: Besides if I went back to her if I took a chance she would think she was right and that would make me weak again, and I will not be that man again.
T2SP: It would not make you weak. I think it makes you weak just giving up and giving in. Sorry for the harshness but I just wanted to give my opinion.
It was my wifes job to take care of everything in the house. She had the luxury of staying home with the children, that was not the issue. She expected me to buy flowers and romance her but none of my attempts were ever good enough. I finally told her to buy them for herself, she had the checkbook. She should have bettered herself, got an education or a job instead of living her life through mine. When she offered to get a job it was always something stupid like in a store as a clerk or at Target. My wife is not stupid, but never amounted to anything other then a housewife. She spent the money on the kids and the house, never bought nice things to make herself look good, hardly wore make up, just a real frump. I work with beautiful women and my wife was an embarassment to me. My words were not abusive, but she didn't get it. I would end up yelling at her because she refused to listen to me. I begged her to change and she refused to. Now she wears the tight jeans and the fancy clothes that are bought with my money but she didn't do it for me and I begged for years. I would have liked to show her off but I was ashamed of how she looked. She used to be beautiful and sexy and she let herself go. I always apologized when she would start crying and I did feel bad for her, but she should have taken a hint. I thought by telling her that I found her unattractive she would want to go to the gym and make an effort, and yes she did go, but not consistently like I did. We could have worked out together, but she said she was embarassed to do that in front of me, I did try. She started covering herself up, and never let me see her body anymore because she said I made her feel ugly. That was not my intent. I will admit I probably handled that the wrong way she was never really that fat, but I wanted her to look like she did before. I will apologize for that I will admit when I am wrong. I will also admit that I am jealous that she doesn't act like she wants me anymore and is moving on, but she still acts like she cares about me and that makes me madder then hell. Is she a martyr? It would be easier to divorce her if she hated me. As for the children, I do love them and I am in their lives as much as I can be. They know I love them and they will understand more when they are older. I am not trying to make you people mad, and in answer to your question I do not know if my wife posts here or not. She has the books, I have seen them at the house. I am not sure at this point why I am still so angry as it is a year since I left her. I do have a life but I don't think she will ever just go away. And yes I do feel guilty. But I can not undo what I have done I have come too far now and made a life for myself without her in it. I also know she will throw this in my face for the rest of my life and that is not how I want to live anymore.
This screams of self esteem and communication issues. The self esteem is the most important now. She didn't do it for you because she needs to do it for herself to feel better about herself. Your communication to her probably only reenforced the way she felt and now she feels free. I am not blaming you directly but you seem like a contributer and now she feels free and may blame you in her head. Bored people become really boring and that what you make your W sound like, she was bored.
I really appreciate your candor. You've made some really good points. I know it's not what many people like to hear but I still think it's a truthful statement from you. Thanks for sharing your insights and thoughts.
Finally free, I haven't read everyone's responses to your posts, but reading yours was like a slap on the face. At first I thought you were my H posting!!!!!! And then I read that you have kids and sighed with relief (I don't have any). What would take you to go back to your w? Why are you even here at the board if you weren't interested in saving your M? What made you come here and post?
I wasn't always like that with my wife but she would push and push until I would finally explode. She was the strong one and the only way for me to be stronger was to rip her apart it was the only way to get her to shut her mouth. I have said some bad things to her and she knows I only said them in anger. Now she doesn't respond anymore but I am sure she is seething underneath. I do admit she wanted us to go to councelling together but I knew it would be another way for her to bash me. She went by herself. My friend never treated me that way my wife did and therefore there was much respect for her. My friend was also unhappy in her marriage and we were able to be a comfort to each other.My friend encouraged me to be happy and that I deserved to be my own person but my wife would never do this. My wife could not understand this concept and kept accusing me of having an affair until I finally left. It was too much stress. I would return to the marriage if I knew that her changes were real but I have known this woman for a very long time and I doubt she can keep up the act for too much longer. I haven't filed for a divorce because I can not afford a lawyer right now but I am saving for one. She said she would not fight me on this but she refuses to file. I am angry with her because the whole marriage has been about her and the kids. I know the concept of this board and I too hate the idea of divorce but I wanted someone to understand that sometimes there are just too many problems to overcome. I am not a bad person I am a realist.
How many times have we LBS's sat here wishing a WA would give us their opinion? Now we have one and because it comes with their anger, we assume it's some sort of prank? I think we could all use a little reality check here. WA's ARE very angry, and often with good reason. We LBS's vent a lot of pain and anger and anguish on this bb. I think we should honor the pain and anger and anguish of a WA too. Finally, please, share your story. I think you will find willing listeners here.
_________________________ Rere 01/18/06 08:01 PM
Hi Finally Free, You could also be my WAH with only one minor change!!! I can't believe all of the similarities! He even knows about this website and forums. Perhaps you could be any number of our Hs.
It really hurt to read your post, mainly because you've given up on any kind of hope to repair the M. Sometime you will regret it. Sometime you will wonder if you had let in just one doubt about ending the M and tried for a little while, maybe there would have been a chance for the two of you to be happy. Sometime you will see that true change can happen and it will be too late. Sometime you will regret it. Rere
I think I am mad at your posts because they hit so close to home and they hurt. I see so very much of my husband in you and the things he said to me over the years. I guess this is also what he thinks of me, that my changes are not real enough and that one day I will go back to how I was. It is really discouraging when I have tried so hard on my own to get help for myself and know that the changes are really only for myself, that my H will never really ever forgive my transgressions and I have to keep moving forward regardless of what he decides to do. Really the only difference between the two of you is that we have more kids. I have been his whipping post for years and have been called everything under the sun to the point where I felt truly worhless and wished many times for relief from the pain and from his anger. I still believe your marriage and my own can be saved from divorce, but it has a lot to do with pride and trust...letting go of the pride and being able to forgive and trust again. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.
_________________________ Be Me 01/18/06 08:38 PM
Finally_free, Excuse me for butting in, I have not read your posts in entirety but I first thought is, BUDDY LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND YOU WILL SEE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! YOU can change the situation if you want to try and you should. Have you ever tried to learn her love language? I would guess her tank is empty and has been for a long time. Yours may be empty also but that can be remedied. I could have written some of what you did but in looking back I see it was ME who was in a crisis, everything my W did I saw as wrong, controlling, selfish, etc.
Make changes in yourself. I wish I had earlier in my life. I walked out on my W because she provoked me so badly, but she was really wanting me to be a better, more Godly man. So part of me remembers and understands what you say, but look to yourself, make the changes inside, the rewards will be there eventually. Sorry if I came across harsh, but your attitude flipped my trigger. And I was bad enough that my W was wishing I was dead or would get killed. Bruce
Finally free--I can understand how you did not feel love or support from your wife- my H often said the same. I did and do love my H more than I have loved anyone- my actions did not always show that though!! I tried my best to be an amazing mom to my 4 kids- so much that I had nothing left to give for myself or my husband. Now that the kids are getting a bit older 2, 4, 4 and 9--I can take a moment and look at myself and improve myself. It is not that I didn't want to before or that I didn't love him enough to- it was that I wasn't ready emotionally and didn't have a moment to myself from the kids. My H also says too late and the changes are now because I have to. But from all of this pain of him leaving me I have finally found myself and I am changing for myself and my kids and my H if he came back. I also hurt my H and have apologized so many times but see that he hurt me too and we had an unhealthy relationship. That can be changed if both of you would work on it. Also with the kids she will be in your life until the kids are at least 20yrs. old - you won't be free of her. Why not make it work with the love of your life and the mother of your children?? The kids can come out of this OK- but not great- divorce leaves permanent scars-even "good divorces". Research the info. on kids and divorce , research about successes of second marriages, read here about mid life crisis- educate yourself before you fully decide. It is clear you are an intelligent man- read the threads on mid life crisis and the preview chapters from divorce busting that you can read on this website- all interesting reading at least. I hope you have got some of the answers you were looking for from us- you have given all of us a lot of information. thank you
_________________________ MikeinMidland 01/19/06 07:55 AM
FF, Your anger at your wife is dying, because she refuses to feed it. For a while you could get angry at her for not taking the bait, but that's not doing it anymore. You saw the books, and you found the site because you wanted to know what she was up to. You figured out that she has learned not to react when you "push her buttons." But you still think its a trick.
So you are using this board as a proxy for your wife. You are using all the hurtful, arrogant words you used to push her buttons before, and seeing if you can push some buttons here. You want someone to get pissed at you, so that you can re-kindle your anger. And since some of the people on this board are probably just starting to deal with their WAS, you are hitting some nerves. But these people are not your wife. And they will not feed your anger forever. Your anger at your wife is dying. And you needed that anger to re-establish your identity, to give you the strength to be on your own. You were not wrong to leave. It's not fair that she couldn't listen until you were gone, but that's how it is sometimes. But the death of your anger is not the death of your self-determination. New habits take 3 to 6 months to become firmly established. Yours, and hers. You have re-built and established your identity, and she can no longer control it. She no longer wants to. Your anger at your wife is dying, because the wife you knew is gone. Gone. In her place is someone who is sexy as he!! despite being a mother of four, has established some selfconfidence of her own, and is interested in exploring a new relationship with you. Let your anger die. You don't need it anymore. Focus on being the great father to your kids that you are, and try being a friend to your wife. Tell her you don't want a physical relationship yet, or ever, if that's what you want. Try it. Tell her it's for the kids. (They'll be OK either way, but it would be nice if their parents at least got along.) Don't ask her to apologize for anything, and she won't either. Watch her response, test her if you need to, but don't bait her. Good luck, whatever you decide. Mike
_________________________ happy_again 01/19/06 08:11 AM
About the books you ask of I know that she is working very hard on trying to win me back but again I do not really understand her reasons for trying when I have told her over and over again the relationship is now dead and the marriage is over. Look I know she has made great strides to change the way she does things and I do enjoy her more but I have seen her when pushed go back to the old ways. I admit I do push her just to see what she will do. That is wrong but I have to know just how sincere she really is. This woman really destroyed me and IF I were to ever consider changing my mind I would need a guarantee and that my friend is impossible because nobody can do that. My wife was better then me at the finances and she did ask me to help her but it really wasn't my thing. BUT why should I need to ask her for money when I was the one working? I walked around without any money and needed her permission to use the ATM. She decided who got what and how the money was spent. Yes she always gave me what I needed and paid all of the bills there was always food in the house and those things were good but I was not a child. In retrospect I should have been more patient with her. I should have made her feel better about herself but she didn't give me compliments either. I know when I looked good she said nothing. When I asked her about this she said that she didn't want to inflate my ego anymore. I know she was tired and I should have asked about her day but I really didn't want to hear about it. I am being honest I really didn't care to know about this one or that one. I wanted to talk about me and my day. Now she listens to me and acts like she is interested in what I have to say. The woman actually listens to my suggestions and follows my advice and that makes me even madder. So many years were wasted because she couldn't grasp this simple thing.
_________________________ grasshopper 01/19/06 08:38 AM
I will chime in, like so many others, and say that I am grateful that you are here and it sounds like there is room in your heart and life for your wife. I really hope you are able to explore the reality of where she is as a person and where you are now, a year removed from her. If she is anything like me, and I am a controlling person (or was), she got a wake up call like no other when you left. All the conversation in the world, especially if it was in a language she could not understand, would not have gotten that point across from you to her. Now, through DBing and counseling, she has realized, as I have, that other people are not there for us to control or manipulate. I never really knew I was doing it. Sure, if I even stopped for a minute to look at the situation from my W's perspective, I would have but I never did, even when she tried to get me to. It's got to be hard in your situation, and my W's to believe the changes after years of conditioning to the contrary. I really wish you and your wife luck. I hope you let go of some of your anger and give your other feelings a chance. TMU
Quote: Yes you are right. I am not sure what the right thing to do is anymore. I need time to think about all of your suggestions. Please understand that I am angry I wanted to love this woman and I am angry that all of this [censored] had to happen just to get her to the place where she is today. It just seems so unfair for everyone. As for the friend that is over it was never physical but I was angry because she was right about the emotional thing and I didn't want to face it and have to give up one more thing in my life for my wife. I am emotionally fatigued and need time and space to think. I can not make any more mistakes I hope you understand that. I live with the pain of leaving my family every single day and when I see her happy and beautiful and being encouraging it infuriates me because it should have been me she changed for so many years ago.
AmyC: You started the healing process today, FF. That's a hard place to get to. Many don't. Their anger consumes them and they are lost in the world. But you broke through your anger today. I know you need some time to process all this. We'll all be here for you if you decide to come back. You never have to accept that old marriage again. But you can begin a new, better one, with this new woman your wife has become.
_________________________ slowly 01/20/06 05:10 AM
Hello Finally - I have no advice, just a big thank you for posting here. It helps so many of us understand the other perspective. Wishing you enlightenment on this journey. Slowly
_________________________ lmdi99 01/20/06 08:41 AM
I am not sure what the right thing to do is anymore. I think a lot of us here struggle with this as well...I know that i do. The logical side of me says to make one decision, while the emotional side of me says to make another decision...somewhere, there has to be a compromise b/w the 2...that's the hard part. One of the things that is often said here is that you will know what is right for you when the time is right. You seem to be saying that you are ambivalent about what to do. My H has been the same way. And something that i have always told myself, and told my H, was that pride is your worst enemy. Don't not go back to your W b/c of your ego. Listen to what your heart is saying to you. Why your W changed and when she did it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that she changed. And i can guarantee you that she is just as scared as you that the changes won't last. But, sometimes you just need to have faith and to believe in the love that brought you 2 together in the first place. There are a million reasons why she didn't change when you begged her to. But, what difference does it make what path she took, as long as she got to the same destination?
Come back here often and seek advice from others. You will probably also learn a lot by reading about other people's situations. Wishing you well.
_________________________ Delboy 01/20/06 09:42 AM
Hi Finally_free, I would just like to reply to your quote: Maybe your husband should have told you what he really thought of you instead of cowering because he was afraid of hurting your feelings, then you wouldn't be in this position now End of quote. My WAW wrote this in a notebook so she could take with her to counselling sessions just before she left us and moved in with her OM. Del wears his heart on his sleeve and very often I felt uncomfortable in his company I never told him as I didn't want to hurt his feelings. My wife comes from a very passive family and I think your behaviour at times seems to me to be passive. Love Delboy
_________________________ shocked_and_alone 01/20/06 10:53 AM
I am just another LBS I will not say that you could be my H. While there are some similar issues, I don’t see my H in you. The similar issues, they are the same in all M. Finances, kids, control. Atrraction, sex. Nothing special there every M has at least one of those. I don’t expect that you are going to put much credence in my word, but I do wish you the best, and I am going to give you my 2 cents. To start with (based upon your references to pity party and LBS lack of fault and shock attitude) I am going to quote from my first post. My H moved out 8/10/05 ____________________ (9/22/05) Is there hope. I am constantly sick to my stomach. After my H left, one day I said "you're amazing" he got all quiet and asked "why now" all I could say was you've been amazing all along, I just forgot to tell you. I spent the first 2 years of our marriage just trying to make ends meet. I spent the next three opressinging him to the point that he walked out. Yes He walked out to the OW, but I know that I in essence pushed him there. I have three small sons at home, twins, 2 1/2 and a 11 month old. I had no idea that I had done so much damage that he could just quit without notice. I had no idea that anybody would quit without notice.
I realize more than you know, most LBS do. Enough about me for now. I know that you have heard from lots about your comments so this may just annoy you if for no other reason than that I seem to be rehashing. ______________________ Do you know how unhappy my wife has made me for all of these years? She has tried to control my every move, wants to know where I am going and what I am doing and who I am doing it with. What the hell is it any of her business? Why can't I just have a life anymore? ______________________ No we don’t know, we don’t know you, we don’t know your W. Control [censored], sorry what business is it of hers, all depends was this b4 or after you moved out. _________________________________ I never counted, my opinion never mattered, my feelings were crushed every day and she made me feel like I was the butler not a husband. She suddenly loves me now, wants to work it out, want to see a therapist of some kind. She has now found God again, more manipulation. ______________________________ Sorry about your stich finding God is not manipulation. Claiming and not following through maybe. ____________________ I will admit that she has made some major changes but I doubt the sincerity of them as she could have made these changes years ago when I asked her to. I think it is more manipulation. __________________ more on how you asked later, but you moving out was a slap in the face, causes lots of genuine changes in LBS’s . It is your prerogative to consider it manipulation. Maybe it is maybe it isn’t. ______________________ I love my kids, but staying in a marriage for the sake of the kids isn't right either. _______________________ Yep absolutely right. But the kids are an excellent reason to try, show courage and demonstrate love and commitment, if it doesn’t work, so be it, either way by trying you are teaching your kids a valuable lesson and demonstrating you love for them, its an ego boost for them that they may not even realize for years to come. Its planting seeds for mature healthy adults. _______________________ she changed after the kids came and put them first. __________________ That happens, even if neither partner expects it. Wow, and the rut just grows without anyone realizing how bad it has gotten.
____________________ The sex was boring, and she gained like 30 pounds which made her ugly. She blamed the weight on the antidepressants, I think she was just too lazy to excercise. She was always interfering in everything I did. _________________ Ok you shouldn’t be surprised that this offends people I can’t comment on the drugs correlation to weight, but 1) antidepressants says to me that she had something going on that you needed to support her through and 2) weight doesn’t change the beauty that God gave each of us. I am sure that I am ugly by most standards. I gained 60 pounds, I blame it on the twins. __________________ Wanting to read all of the cell phone bills and ask about the calls to my friend, so what, she didn't care about me. _____________ sounds like you were at home still when you were engaging in this emotional affair, if so, she had every right to ask, you just thought that she didn’t b/c you decided it was over already. _______________ There is no hope for this marriage because if I let my guard down she will start again, as it took me years to get the courage to leave I can't go back now. _____________________ I don’t know about hope for your M It doesn’t take courage to run, it takes courage to stand and fight, and it takes far more courage to say, I don’t know if this will work but I am willing to give it one more try (see above comments re: kids) _______________________ I am sure they will eventually see the truth that their mother pushed me out of the marriage with her control and anger issues. __________________________ Later in this thread you reference “your truth” you have a truth, your W has a truth, your kids will have their own truth. ________________________ She took care of everything and I let her which was my mistake, but she wouldn't ever let go of the steering wheel when it was time to hand it over. ______________________ How did she know that it was time to hand it over did you graduate from some financial flops anonymous class? _____________________________ Sometimes I get so frustrated and even when I know she hasn't done anything wrong I want to prove that she is still the same manipulative B****h she has always been so I push her buttons on purpose. I think she is catching on so she doesn't always react anymore, more manipulation to get me upset even more. _______________________ Ok this is cute, you get frustrate, you MANIPULATE the situation, b/c your MANIPULATION doesn’t get you the result that you want, you claim that she is manipulating. Do you see the poor logic here? ______________________ She will not let go of me, _______________________ I just want to save this quote for reference.— see next quote. ____________________________ Besides if she cared why doesn't she ever call me why do I have to be the one to make all of the calls? She used to call non stop, now I never hear from her unless it is about the kids. _____________________ sounds like she let go. _______________________ People just don't change like that, _____________________________ I’ll accept that for now _______________________ I am a much better person now, __________________________ Wait a minute people just don’t change like that. __________________________ Besides if I went back to her if I took a chance she would think she was right and that would make me weak again, and I will not be that man again. ________________________ I don’t know if she would think that she was right, That would be up to you and your ability to politely be strong enough to address the issue and let her know where you stand. NOT WEAK, very courageous. See above. __________________________ Maybe some of you left behind spouses don't get it. There is a reason we left you, do you ever look at yourselves and your own actions or just have continual pity parties about how badly you were treated. Stop acting like you didn't see this coming. ______________________ we’re not acting, we are out here setting our souls for public display and trying to learn. Yep there are reasons, and I am here “trying to see all that I did” that was the name of my first thread _____________________________ It was my wifes job to take care of everything in the house. She had the luxury of staying home with the children, that was not the issue. _________________ Some times that’s a luxury, others it’s a curse. If was not an issue, why the next quote. _____________________ When she offered to get a job it was always something stupid like in a store as a clerk or at Target. My wife is not stupid, but never amounted to anything other then a housewife. _____________________ Raising kids is the most important job in the world. There may have been reasons for a clerk at target job, antidepressants? Schedule would work with taking care of kids? Low self esteem? She just plain liked it. By the way did you think that some people on this board might be clerk’s at Target? ___________________________ She spent the money on the kids and the house, never bought nice things to make herself look good, hardly wore make up, just a real frump. __________________________ This is the only time that I will say that you have described me. God made me who I am, I don’t wear make up. DO YOU. I do not belive that gender should create a dbl standard. ______________________ I work with beautiful women and my wife was an embarassment to me. My words were not abusive, but she didn't get it. I would end up yelling at her because she refused to listen to me. I begged her to change and she refused to. __________________ Your embarrassment is to your disgrace. Yelling at your W, could very well be construed as abusive. __________________ I would have liked to show her off but I was ashamed of how she looked. She used to be beautiful and sexy and she let herself go. __________________ Wow ______________- I always apologized when she would start crying and I did feel bad for her, but she should have taken a hint. I thought by telling her that I found her unattractive she would want to go to the gym and make an effort, and yes she did go, but not consistently like I did. We could have worked out together, but she said she was embarassed to do that in front of me, I did try. She started covering herself up, and never let me see her body anymore because she said I made her feel ugly. That was not my intent. I will admit I probably handled that the wrong way she was never really that fat, but I wanted her to look like she did before. I will apologize for that I will admit when I am wrong. ___________________ I would cover myself up to if I was with someone who yelled at me that I was not attractive, I would definitely be embarrassed to show my body or do things in front of that person. _____________________ But I can not undo what I have done I have come too far now and made a life for myself without her in it. I also know she will throw this in my face for the rest of my life and that is not how I want to live anymore. ________________ Can’t undo what you done, but you can improve your future, see courage above. Your predicting the future here. Pointing this out for future reference. _____________ I will admit the changes happened a little too late and that makes me angry wasn't I important enough to change for? ____________________ Maybe, just maybe you were/are important enough to change for. Here are your options for what I see in your suggestions. --She’s doing all this stuff just to manipulate — b/c your important enough ---She’s doing all this stuff b/c you leaving was her slap in the face and she took a good look in the mirror about what was wrong on her part with the M — IE made the changes that she sees that she should have during the M which may have kept the M in tact– b/c your important enough –She’s doing all this stuff just to get under your skin– b/c your important enough – She’s doing all this stuff b/c she let go and is moving on check your odds. ____________________ I wasn't always like that with my wife but she would push and push until I would finally explode. She was the strong one and the only way for me to be stronger was to rip her apart it was the only way to get her to shut her mouth. I have said some bad things to her and she knows I only said them in anger. Now she doesn't respond anymore but I am sure she is seething underneath. _____________________ “rip her apart” Hmmm I’ll just say that this is not good. As to the rest of this reference back to my comment about you manipulating ______________________________ I do admit she wanted us to go to councelling together but I knew it would be another way for her to bash me. She went by herself. __________________ predict the future again _______________________ I would return to the marriage if I knew that her changes were real but I have known this woman for a very long time and I doubt she can keep up the act for too much longer. _______________________ can’t predict, can predict _______________________ I know the concept of this board and I too hate the idea of divorce but I wanted someone to understand that sometimes there are just too many problems to overcome. I am not a bad person I am a realist. __________________ I am a realist too. I just have hopes and dreams and goals that my H doesn’t currently share. Sometimes there are too many problems to overcome. Until you take the problems face on and trying to resolve them, you will never know anything but your prediction. __________________ Look I know she has made great strides to change the way she does things and I do enjoy her more but I have seen her when pushed go back to the old ways. I admit I do push her just to see what she will do. That is wrong but I have to know just how sincere she really is. ______________ predicting and manipulation __________________ This woman really destroyed me and IF I were to ever consider changing my mind I would need a guarantee and that my friend is impossible because nobody can do that. _________________ no offense you’ve been predicting throughout this thread _______________________ My wife was better then me at the finances and she did ask me to help her but it really wasn't my thing. ________________ your waffling on this, its ok, clarity happens. ________________ BUT why should I need to ask her for money when I was the one working? I walked around without any money and needed her permission to use the ATM. She decided who got what and how the money was spent. Yes she always gave me what I needed and paid all of the bills there was always food in the house and those things were good but I was not a child. ________________ I will not say that this was good, but how you handled it WITH her is the thing. How did you tell her that it was her job, what defined her job. __________________ I know she was tired and I should have asked about her day but I really didn't want to hear about it. I am being honest I really didn't care to know about this one or that one. I wanted to talk about me and my day.
Are you just a me kind of guy or was it that you both fell into a rut. _______________ If you do not like my truth that is your problem. ____________________ Here’ that “my truth comment” Check Bartlet’s familiar quotations–APPREARANCES OF THE MIND ARE OF 4 KINDS. ___________ As for my wife yes she has made changes but I do not know the sincerity of them. _____________ If you want you can explore the sincerity with her. _____________ Maybe he thought you looked like a fat pig also, but didn't have the balls to say so so he put up with it but inside thinking the same things I did. ______________ Calling someone a fat big does not take balls. _____________________ My wife used to call non stop to the point of harrassment. I could never get any peace. Now she stopped calling which I find to be manipulative because all of the effort is now put on me. __________________ manipulative because the effort is on you???? what effort. I am not being glib, honestly I want to know what effort you are putting in and why. ___________ _______________ Jerk? Me? I think not sweetie. You and the pig lady want to believe that I am a jerk becaue I speak my mind. I got to this place because I was never able to speak my mind before. __________________ You are venting, sorry that you got called a jerk, but pig lady is just such a wonderfully kind, nice guy level headed come back isn’t it. You have had a lot bottled up, we see that, we would love to help you, lashing out is not a solution, but we all realize that sometimes we just have to do it. Others may look at that as having a pity party. _______________
If you were me how would you approach my wife? How would you want me to treat her now after a year has passed and I have let all of this bitterness fester inside of me? How would I be able to tell her that I am the one who can't let go and all of the things I told her to do with her life she has done? IF I were to tuck my tail between my legs and go home she would again have the upper hand and remind me that I was the one who screwed up. Wouldn't it mean admitting defeat? _________________ No it would mean showing the greatest strength of your life. It would mean that you would have to take it slow, learn to love trust and respect again, and that you would have to stand up everyday be strong and not let the pattern be re-created. ____________________________ She already told me that my leaving her was a wake up call and that she would do anything for another chance. So what is your point? She told me that she was sorry she wrote letters emails and begged but I had already had enough. My wife admitted that she was a bad wife and promised to make things good again. IF I were to admit that yes she has made many changes and has kept her word how do I know that she isn't just doing it prove a point herself? Isn't what she is doing another form of control and manipulation? __________________ No honestly it is not. I know that I don’t know her or you, but you say that you know that she got the wake up call, that she has changed that she wants you back. What I don’t think that you realize is that if she still wants you YOU ARE IN CONTROL. The job of the LBS is to sit and wait fo the WAS to bring up the R at the pace of the WAS. We know that you are leery, and pressure from us only pushes you away. YOU ARE LEADING A DANCE, you are in control. And we are letting you. ______________________ Yes you are right. I am not sure what the right thing to do is anymore. I need time to think about all of your suggestions. Please understand that I am angry I wanted to love this woman and I am angry that all of this [censored] had to happen just to get her to the place where she is today. It just seems so unfair for everyone. ________________ I knew that you were here for a purpose, I have said that I just didn’t know if the purpose included me. YES I AM FULL OF CONCEIT. I’ve been watching though. This statement hit me. I didn’t want to play with the angry boy. I didn’t ant to fuel. I may make you angry over and over, but this is the statement that made me jump on board. _________________ As for the friend that is over it was never physical but I was angry because she was right about the emotional thing and I didn't want to face it and have to give up one more thing in my life for my wife. _____________ this is the first time that this is the first time that I have read this statement, I quit reading at the above and just printed your 57 page thread. BRAVO– showing courage here too now. So, we are here, to help and support you and oh my how much we don’t want you to hurt anymore. Think, stick it out If you agree to stop calling names so will we (RIGHT?) We do want to help.
_________________________ happy_again 01/20/06 11:35 AM
So how would I take steps forward without giving her false hope? I do not want to hurt her but I am still so unsure. I did call my kids last night and asked to speak to my wife. She seemed really happy to hear from me, maybe too happy and it scared me. I don't want to get sucked back in again. But it was nice to have someone ask me about my day and my job and even ask me what I ate for dinner. I miss that part of her. I will admit that she didn't make any of her usual suggestions about my life and she seemed interested in what I had to say. I had to end the call I suddenly got to feeling really anxious and made an excuse to get off of the phone. I lay awake all night thinking of my family and my wife and how much we have hurt each other in different ways. I pictured her face when I once ripped her to shreds as she was trying to apologize to me, that look still haunts me. I pictured her face when she tried to convince me to have sex with her and how I turned her down flat telling her that I would never touch her again, and how she repulsed me. She sobbed like a baby and I just laughed at her and left. I just don't see how we can get past this point.
False hope is when you tell your kid the dog got "hurt" by a car, when he's already dead. You wouldn't be thinking of going back if you had NO hope. And if you have some hope, then she can too. That's OK. Hope is not a guarantee. Take the smallest possible next step. You've already asked to talk to her on the phone. The next step would be to be able to end the conversation without panicking. To do this, think of your exit line before you call. Or call 6 minutes before you have to go somewhere. After that, don't jump right to asking for a date. The kids are a great common ground. Go to their school and sports events, and talk to your wife when you see her there. No heavy discussion. Sit with her and the other kids on the bleachers. After that you can plan a family outing together, whatever fun stuff you all like to do. Or, if you're worried about the kids' expectations, you can go on a date without her telling the kids who's she's with. Think in advance before each meeting about what level of physical contact you are comfortable with at that point. If she starts going too fast, don't rebuff her. Just explain that you want to take it slow. On the other hand, don't assume that just because she tried to seduce you before, she's available now. You don't have to apologize for anything, or spill your guts to her. She's probably going to be biting her tongue trying not to ask "relationship" questions. But don't play any games or push her buttons, either. Just be yourself, the independent person you have become, and see how it goes.
FF, I think you are making some wonderful progress here and I too still appreciate your candor. I would suggest that you try to just focus on the friendship aspect with your W. Just be friends. It's a good way to wade in one toe at a time. It worked very well for my SO and myself. He had to test the waters a lot too, to make sure the changes were real. He's found out that they are. We've come to a major bump in the road, but for the most part we are handling it beautifully, together, as friends as well as lovers. All you have to do is wade into the pond an inch at a time. In time you will know whether or not the changes are real. If they're not, of course you are free to walk. But if they are, a whole new world and R awaits you!
About how you treated her in the past: she has forgiven you, or she wouldn't be asking you about your day. At some point you both may feel comfortable expressing your regrets, her for being controlling, you for lashing out. But you don't have to do that first. Get comfortable with small talk and kid talk first. Begin to function as co-parents and friends, and at some point you can both acknowledge your mistakes.
FF Step one, you need to think everything through, be honest about all of it. what do you want. Reconcilliation, right? Break it down. What will be the first thing that needs to happen? That you can talk to her without anxiety? Work on that for awhile. What is the next step write them down. make them baby steps so that you can monitor. Step two work on you. You have conceded that you have been mean, you need to stop that behavior. Other things about you, think it through, you need to be able to not feel controlled, so that means that you have to open up to your W. Step 3 here's a novel one BE Honest, Tell her the complete honest truth, and here's my version of it. I love you, I see that you have changed, I have too. I know that we were both at fault for our problems, I don't know if we can work them out, I am scared. I don't want to give you false hope but I want to try to work this out TOGETHER. I want you to be honest with me, I don't want to be manipulated, I don't want to feel manipulated and I don't want to manipulate. If I think that you are being manipulative I am going to tell you, if I don't like something I am going to tell you, and I want the same from you. We need to set ground rules for these things so that we don't get out of control. Maybe a safe time or safe place or limits on how often? What do you think W? Step 4 Give all us LBS the advise that we need to be as lucky as you.
Last edited by job; 09/26/1606:19 AM. Reason: Removal of link to another site.
GAG! I could KISS you!!! You are helping so much! Please keep posting This is helping my situation so much. H has turned a corner, because I've been able to understand what he's been feeling now....and he's opening up, because I can understand and help him....pls continue
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THESE!!!! They should be stickies!! How do we make this a sticky?
Well look what the cat dragged in! This is making some interesting reading for me it has been years since I read some of my old posts here. I still don't get how my old posts are helping you to understand your Husband though. We are all different and each person has different problems. You have to work on your stuff and do your work as there is no guarantee that your marriage is going to be saved just because mine was.
