Going Dark, Gaining Strenght

[JinBK]

LOL LH! I sure hope our WH-es aren't the same! That would create a whole different set of problems!

I fear that they won't wake up, but it's incumbent upon us to move forward in GAL, fix things we don't like about ourselves (or they didn't like that hold merit) and get our lives to an emotional place of stability.

The A our WH are having are unresolved issues they have. I know we both know it's not our fault. However, we can hope that while we are working on ourselves they will do the same. My biggest fear is that my H will fix himself while he's with her and she will get my happily ever after.

I, for one, am completely sure that WH and OW won't last. Especially if he does fix himself. He will look at her and wonder what he ever saw in her. With my WH, I can see how she is his escape.

Plus, their R is destined to fail because they have to lie about it. Even if it were to come out in the open, they would have to lie to everyone about how it came to be, needing at least 3 different stories for various groups. And, should her parents ever meet WH's family, well, they'd have to be careful because OW's family already know WH as her BF, while clearly WH's family knows her as "just friends". And you don't casually become part of WH's family. That is just not possible.

More likely in my case is that WH will get dumped by OW and he will stay in this pathetic state, being taken care of by his aunt and his mother for the rest of his life until he is a pathetic loser living alone and miserable.

I hope he finds a way to look into himself and not become that.

[Savemymarr]

Jin u r right. OW will dump him. He will hit rock bottom. He will wallow in his self pity. Once there will he have the strength to engage in the introspection necessary to pull himself back together is the question. Don't know.

When that happens u will need to b strong bc ur instinct will b to help him. He needs to find himself first.

[JinBK]

I talked to my Stepmom earlier today. She has some wonderful insight sometimes.

Going backward, 2 weeks ago I put a ditigal recorder in our car. I taped 5 hours of conversation between WH and OW. I was lucky I suppose because it was a day they drove way out to a big outlet mall together for the day.

When I first listened to it, I was of course devastated. It confirmed what I already knew about them. But additionally they spent a lot of time saying some pretty nasty things about me.

I sent it to Dad and Stepmom, and Stepmom spent some time listening to it. She said something interesting. She said she was listening to "two self-absorbed people talking to each other" - that they seemed to be talking and agreeing with each other but not actually *listening* to each other.

Plus, she was just amazed by how much WH was just flat out lying to OW, too. Especially how he assured her that his family was actually cool with their relationship! And he said some flat out lies about Stepmom, too, which she thought was interesting.

She also thought he was trying to change OW, too. She noticed how obsessed he seems to be with her religion - she is Jewish, he is not. In fact, he's really not a religious person at all in any way. But, he seems to become obsessed with converting to Judaism and becoming even more "Jewish" than OW and her family, making OW more religious than she is right now. He has also cited my not liking OW because she is Jewish. Um, yeah, that's it. It's not that he's screwing her, it's that she's Jewish.

It's a slow day at home, so I am finding myself thinking about WH and OW more today. I am trying to go through a pile of old papers, which is really not exciting at all.


Just IMed with SIL's BF. He is really upset. WH's family is being so overly accommodating to him and are turning on SIL since she is the only one who isn't buying his crap about OW. I feel really bad. I am not sure what to do. I don't know if I want to jump into the middle of this fight. Their denial is just so strong. They don't want to "hurt" their son, and are ignoring that he is having this A. In the meantime, they are alienating their daughter. But he is just flaunting his A in front of everyone and they are just letting it happen. To me, I am out and I know that things will fall apart on their own. But poor SIL is in the middle of it still.

[Savemymarr]

I know it's hard, but ur H is acting lost. he is trying to find himself and seems to think that the answer lies with the OW and with becoming Jewish. he is doing this as his career is teetering on the brink of a precipice in addition to losing his primary support system: you.

he is attempting to bond with this newly minted college grad while pursuing his PhD no less. good luck i say. too bad u cannot fast forward to the future, bc if u could it would be apparent that this cannot last and will not.

do not lose any sleep over them. the tug of attachment requires time. u need for the days to become weeks before u can expect ur H to start feeling it. were there any traditions that u observed for Halloween, Thanksgiving or the Holidays with ur H? Christmas is a funny thing. It is one thing to celebrate Xmas sans religion and another thing entirely to not celebrate it at all with your "significant" other. especially if OW is Jewish. OW may very well be stridently anti-Christmas bc there are definitely a large number of those of the Jewish faith who feel unfairly bombarded and overwhelmed by "Christmas" that could also work in your favor.

plus do not shy away from putting some pressure on ur H at the university. keep in contact w/ S. avail her of some of the details. it cannot hurt. i would be curious to know if ur H's behavior was in violation of the code of ethics at the university. i suspect it was. do NOT let up the pressure there. he needs to feel it however uncomfortable that may be. moreover the OW and OW's parents need to feel it somehow as well. her career is aborning. do not think to fight fair. a fight is a fight. it does not involve rules like the Marquess of Queensberry, etc. it is about winning. sure, it does not have to come at all costs, but there is no mercy.

OM2 had to feel it in my sitch, so i made sure it was plain to him and his W what he and my W had done. My W's therapist has supposedly had an interesting response to that. I get the sense from my W that the therapist views my actions during exposure as being hurtful. but then again, it could very well be my W who feels that way and is trying to say that the therapist "said that" rather than admitting to feeling that way herself.

funny enough she is still in denial to a degree. no surprise. as an aside, we were googling something on my iphone via Safari, and the initial screen was a website where the screen read: "coping with infidelity, restoring the marital relationship." u had to see the expression on her face bc she turned away not wanting to look at it. ha. enjoy. u can run but u cannot hide from what u did. and try and blame me as much as u wish but u were the one who committed adultery which is most def a sin in God's eyes (and i am not this religious zealot either, but wrong is wrong).

[lovehurts]

Jin, I agree that they will have to tangled a web of lies that will be hard to keep up with when they "come out" Again, same for WH and OW. I'm actually interested to see how they try to spin it.

I know what you mean about hearing the tapes. I had a great deal of intel last week as she was traveling in another country and couldn't use skype. This exchange actually HELPED me. I hope you discovered the same thing. These mean ARE lost! It's sad, but they have to find their own way.

I am GALing so hard right now and having so much fun and feeling so free, I'm 100% confident I wouldn't want him back if he came crawling back today. I couldn't say that a few weeks ago. Do I still want to save my M? I think so....or I wouldn't still be coming here, but I know no matter what, I'm better for having been through this!

You are too! Stay strong!

[JinBK]

Thanks Frank. And to everyone.

I know that WH is feeling the pull of attachment, but he is still refusing to admit his A. Or, maybe he just wanted the car.

Monday night, I got a long text message.
"We need to talk tonight. I am willing to do what you ask. I realize that you have one request and to do so will require help from you and my family. But we need help first. We need to get help together. I can't do this without you. This conversation must be between us first. No more talking to anyone else. That is what go s into these problems in the first place. If you choose to not talk or decide to share this with anyone else then I'll know its over. You made a request and I am willing to make the effort, but I must first know you are willing to talk. We need to stop listening to others, and really listen to each other."

I broke my rule, texted him back "Have you ended your affair with OW and ended your working relationship with her?"

H: "I have spoken to her yes. Can we now talk briefly?"

So I called. Why did I call?

Basically, he *said* he talked to her, that he would *only* work with her *sometimes* at the lab. I pressed for him to admit to the affair, and he still DENIED it! I said "I know you are f***ing her" and his reply? "How do you know that?" Yeah, that was a telling response.

I didn't tell him I have a recording of him with her TALKING about the sex they just had AT HIS PARENT'S HOUSE! I just said "you are lying, goodbye" and hung up.

Then, yesterday morning, I get this:
"I just want you to think about what you asked me for in your last email. To cut off ties. I told you I would last night in order to continue talking. You said we could continue therapy if this one thing was done. Then last night you stared to add conditions. This is supposed to be talked about with someone else. We are not perfect, and we have made mistakes. But you keep changing your demands. Try to understand why we both need help together. I remember getting help was something you strongly believed in and cherished, and now it seems to mean nothing. Please talk, or tell me you've moved on it it's over forever. Please ask yourself why I am still trying."

And then he texted asking for the car to go to a "conference". Um, yeah, right. He's not getting the car.

So, I responded. Not directly to him. I composed a letter, then emailed it to his uncle and SIL. I explained once again the purpose of No Contact and why it is I cannot speak to him until he is honest with me. The emotional abuse and manipulation. I won't reprint the whole letter here, but here's the gist:

1. It wasn't just cutting it off with OW, it was that AND honesty. Without honesty we can't work on anything.
2. I know you are having sex with OW and taking her out on dates. And, to make him piss his pants a little bit I said "it doesn't take much money to get the proof that I have."
3. Follow the rules of No Contact! ANYTHING has to go through your sister, or uncle if SIL is too upset (which she is...I am stronger than she is now and I don't want to put her in the middle any longer). This extends to both marriage things and business stuff like the car.

I did not respond to the car request. He will have to ask Uncle to ask me. Let's see if that happens.

Honestly, I don't know WHAT his motivation is to keep this going. He talked to OW on the tape about getting married! I'm out of his life if he really wants it.

All I need from him is a little remorse for his actions, or just admitting that it did. And telling me that he loves me. But that's not what those texts were. They were manipulations again. Heck, they could have just been buttering me up to get the car.

[silverado]

Geez, Jen, he should go into politics!!!!

He's wasting his "talents" in Biology.

[JinBK]

No kidding. He has the art of the technicality down to a science!

Stepmom sent me a "highlights" list from the tape. I shouldn't have, but I read it. Now I'm irritated all over again.

Not only do they talk about the sex they stopped at his parents house to have, but they talk about getting married. I don't get it. I don't know why he is stringing me along like this if he wants to marry OW. He talks about how they want to have kids! He tells her he's going to divorce me, but he has yet to file.

It's like he recognizes that they have to lie for now and smooth it out later. But why? Why all this crap?

I am so glad I have my counseling session this afternoon.

[Frank V]

Are you gonna share the info on the tape in the session?

[Butterfly1]

I don't know how you can listen to that. I can't even listen to my H's OW's name!

Remember affairs ARE BUILT ON LIES. OF COURSE THEY WILL TALK ABOUT IT. IT FEEDS THE ADDICTION. Once he sees you are out of his life, not a competition for her, are freeing him to actually make the choice and take the steps we'll see what he does. And you have no control over that. If he is the kind of man to ditch his marriage commitment for a fantasy, that's his immaturity and not your fault.

But he may not, people often dont. Let them see if they can make fantasy a reality and watch it most likely fall to pieces.

Also it's not until you are gone a while and he really feels it that he might face reality and see what he's missing.

YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!