I was reading a thread this morning and there was some discussion about using intel aka "spying" One poster advocated that at some point you need to stop doing it because it becomes obsessive and hinders your ability to live for you. Puppy advocates spying as it prevents mind reading and allows one to act on data and not feelings. This got me thinking about my sitch .
Two minute version of it. 7 weeks ago my W had an EA with her old boss that turned into a PA. It was a one time thing. She took advantage of a family trip home to have the PA. She also had an EA with a local guy whose now turned her down twice for a PA ironically because she's married; he's stopped talking to her. She's also was in contact with ex-fiance who lives out of country. I know all this from intel and other than the prepaid phone, I can see everything that goes on on our home network. Confronted the PA and EAs, gave her the Robx "let her go speech" and set a boundary that I will not live in an open marriage and if she continues with this behavior she will need to leave and I will pack her bags for her. She told me she doesn't love me and isn't attracted to me anymore. I told her that may be the case but as long as you live here, no open marriage. Got her attention and now she's "deciding" whether to stay or go. Some days she really engages with me and others she's withdrawn but she is not committed to R. I remain somewhat detached while in her presence but will talk to her when she initiates conversations. We've had three MC sessions but at this point I think it might be a waste of time to continue.
Since September 11, all online activity shows no inappropriate contact outside the marriage; however, I find myself becoming increasingly obsessed with checking. When there is computer activity, I get summary emails every half-hour. I can POP into her email at will including the "secret" one. For the most part, I can "read" her thoughts by looking at her Google searches.
Getting back to my main point, I'm beginning to wonder why I need this and how it helps me? Sure I'm verifying compliance with the boundary I set but at what cost. Most of us in these situations are not emotionally detached enough to view the data objectively. Two days ago she was looking at sites on "why women cheat". Last night, she was looking at sites on "how to find a mate at 40". What does this data tell me. Either a) she's completely confused (as she claims) and is trying to make sense of everything so she can come to a decision, or b) she's ready to move on and researching how to proceed with landing a new husband. I feel I have no new insights into the situation although I freely admit that I may not be in the right place emotionally to view it. I also find myself having a visceral response when I see the activity reports. I get anxious about what they contain and sometimes feel a sense of panic/fear as I'm opening it.
So for those members like Puppy who advocate intel gathering, do you have some intel guidelines newcomers like me can follow? After some thought, here is my starting point list:
1) Set an interval of at least two or more days (perhaps a week) between review of intel.
2) If your getting your intel reports via email, set up a rule to move the files out of your inbox into another folder. Rather than staring you in the face every time you open your email, your forced to go through additional steps. Sure it's just a trick, but out of sight, out of mind might delay the Pavlovian response to immediately review the report that sets in after a couple of weeks—I'm there right now.
3) Set the review time for after your last interaction with your spouse. Looking at this stuff is hard enough and if you see something that upsets you, the last thing you want to do is immediately start reacting to your H or W. One emotional outburst might destroy whatever small gains you've accomplished. In addition, sooner or later they might correlate your outbursts to their activity and stop using the computer your gathering intel from.
4) Anything you read that is not action oriented should potentially be ignored as the screwed up thought process of the WAW or WAH. Using myself as an example, my W looking for "how to find a mate at 40" means nothing unless she begins to put that into action, e.g. sign up for a dating site, inappropriate IMs on FB.
That's all I have. Thoughts and comments?
Me-43 W-41 S-3 M- almost 7 W ONS affair - 8/9/10, confronted 8/30/10 Separation - Pending My sitch
Here's my take on intel gathering, from my personal archives:
On snooping “makes you nuts” – I say just the opposite! :
You know, it's funny, but every time I get into one of our frequent "Snooping is bad!" debates around here (I am very pro-intel, as you all know), one of the arguments that the anti-snooping crowd always give is, basically, "It'll make you nuts!"
I contend just the opposite. Us humans are wired to fear -- to "go nuts" -- over the UNKNOWN, not the KNOWN.
Ronald Reagan said, of the Soviets, "Trust -- [i]but verify." it is in that verification that we can either find STRENGTH AND PEACE OF MIND (if nothing is going on), or KNOWLEDGE AND DISCERNMENT about the right course of action (if something is).
For the life of me, I can't see anything wrong with that.
Pro’s and Con’s of “Snooping”:
1. to verify initially whether or not there is infidelity involved in your sitch, so that you can attack it appropriately.
2. to establish evidence/grounds for a possible divorce action if yours is a "fault" state.
3. to gather evidence for a possible custody battle, and to help you make a determination as to whether or not you SHOULD go for custody (is the cheating spouse engaging in risky behavior that would make them a poor parent in their current state).
4. to determine what it is that OM/OW is providing your spouse, so that you may begin to better provide it. To determine what OM/OW is doing that ticks your spouse off, so that you can avoid those behaviors.
5. as an early warning system for any possible financial or legal threats.
6. to monitor what outside pressures are having an affect on your spouse (her parents, her friends, your adult children, etc.).
7. to determine if the affair has gotten physical (medical risk).
8. to verify no-contact once no-contact and transparency have been agreed to as part of reconciliation.
9. to determine the extent to which you believe OM/OW may be a risk to your spouse and/or your family (ex.: abuse, unstable behavior, etc.).
10. to expose deceitful tactics of the cheating spouse which, if unverified, may lead you to make false assumptions and tactical errors (ex.: cheating spouse says they want to go to MC to try to work on reconciling the marriage, but they confide to a BF that they are only doing it to buy time while they squirrel away marital assets to be used on a divorce).
Those are some "pro's" just off the top of my head.
On the "con" side, all I can come up with is:
1. If you don't control your emotions, you may not be able to handle it.
I'm sorry, this whole "snooping is BAD!" thing, to me, is just one of those mantras that gets mindlessly repeated, until it becomes part of the official catechism, without stopping to consider the real merits of it.
If you feel you are obsessing over it (and it can be VERY addicting), I recommend either:
- cutting back on the frequency of how often you check. Say, to 1x/week, or 2x/ month or something.
- Ask a trusted friend or family member to be an intermediary for you, to view the raw daily intel, interpret it, and only update you as they feel you are immediately threatened, etc. Then they can present you with a twice-monthly OVERVIEW of what's going on.
I'm sorry, this whole "snooping is BAD!" thing, to me, is just one of those mantras that gets mindlessly repeated, until it becomes part of the official catechism, without stopping to consider the real merits of it.
Puppy [/i]
Perhaps I didn't state my position clearly enough. I have no issue with snooping nor am I struggling with the "ethics" of it. My W is engaging in deceitful behavior and I'm with you on the trust but verify mindset. This is a battle for my M, and I need to know what I'm up against and what actions I might need to take to protect myself and my family from outsiders and from her own destructive behavior.
My point is that while I embrace the concept intellectually, I'm struggling with the emotional side of it. My proposed list was an attempt to give myself some ground rules until I am in a better place emotionally and perhaps help those who are committed to snooping but afraid that they can't handle it.
Me-43 W-41 S-3 M- almost 7 W ONS affair - 8/9/10, confronted 8/30/10 Separation - Pending My sitch
- Ask a trusted friend or family member to be an intermediary for you, to view the raw daily intel, interpret it, and only update you as they feel you are immediately threatened, etc. Then they can present you with a twice-monthly OVERVIEW of what's going on.
Puppy
Good idea. Heck, I might even consider setting up an exchange site where DBr members can help each other out. I'll review your intel if you view mine.
Me-43 W-41 S-3 M- almost 7 W ONS affair - 8/9/10, confronted 8/30/10 Separation - Pending My sitch
I'm sorry, this whole "snooping is BAD!" thing, to me, is just one of those mantras that gets mindlessly repeated, until it becomes part of the official catechism, without stopping to consider the real merits of it.
Puppy [/i]
Perhaps I didn't state my position clearly enough. I have no issue with snooping nor am I struggling with the "ethics" of it. My W is engaging in deceitful behavior and I'm with you on the trust but verify mindset. This is a battle for my M, and I need to know what I'm up against and what actions I might need to take to protect myself and my family from outsiders and from her own destructive behavior.
My point is that while I embrace the concept intellectually, I'm struggling with the emotional side of it. My proposed list was an attempt to give myself some ground rules until I am in a better place emotionally and perhaps help those who are committed to snooping but afraid that they can't handle it.
GH, I understand that. The part you quoted of mine was from my archives, and not directed to you per se but to another poster, long ago. I did add my 2nd bullet point (use a "filter") for your sitch, tho.
- Ask a trusted friend or family member to be an intermediary for you, to view the raw daily intel, interpret it, and only update you as they feel you are immediately threatened, etc. Then they can present you with a twice-monthly OVERVIEW of what's going on.
Puppy
Good idea. Heck, I might even consider setting up an exchange site where DBr members can help each other out. I'll review your intel if you view mine.
