A man in full

[Truegritter]

how do we know when it is time to stop standing and "move on"?

I think the answer to this is when you have truly done this

If we have done all the hard work, answered all the hard questions, and our actions are reflecting who we are

If your action to leave your M is coming from a place of love, compassion and understanding.

And

It is aligned with your core and what you believe.

It is not a compromise of any of that.

By that I mean

Why do you want to leave your M?

That is the ultimate question.

Is it because your W isn't responding to you the way you want her to?

Is it because you feel you have stood long enough and you feel compromised by her choices?

I would ask myself those questions why?

And answer them honestly.

It may be becuase of the reasons I suggested and that you make a conscious choice and own up to yourself that you just can't do it anymore

But

do it from a place of full understanding.

Don't lie to yourself.

You lie to yourself and you lose yourself

You believe those lies then you are f@cked.

For me?

My W does not want a divorce. We are deliberately not divorced.

I do not believe I am personally through this process as you suggest I might be.

I have been married once before. I know what didn't work. I do not have a desire to be with anyone else right now.

If my W wants a divorce I will not stand in her way. I have posted that already.

I don't know when it will feel right to move on. I do have an internal timeline I have set myself.

At the end of the day I still have hope, although it is a different hope then when I started this.

I accept that my hope includes that we may not reconcile,

... however, my actions up until that point are the only truth,

the only certainty that I know.

So really it comes downs to my choices.

I control the success of this.

I control my destiny and I do not intend to give that away

to anyone.

Not my W or anyone else.

[MHL]

I do not believe I am personally through this process as you suggest I might be.

Grit,
I don't think you are through this as in done but certainly you have moved a considerable distance.

I realize how confused your W is and it is more than apparent in her communication with you. I will know more about my sitch with my W by the end of the week. (waiting on a certified letter with the D filing) Actually, I don't think it will happen so I may find myself right there next week also.

At the end of the day I still have hope, although it is a different hope then when I started this.

This is what I am speaking of as far as a change in myself and what I sense as a change in you also. I know you laid down a boundary and I am wondering if that change in "hope" allowed you to do this from a healthy place.

I am still digging on what is going on within me and how I am interpeting it, thus my questions to you. Maybe the questions are more rhetorical in nature and may not demand an answer or response but rather just acknowledgement.

I guess the big question is.....and I know it is different for each of us.......How will I know when it is right to move on? Will there be a significant change? How do you know that this is not that change and you are becoming "stuck"?

Sorry for the hi-jack of sorts, and I will bring it back to you Grit......and I hope I do not offend you my friend, I only pose the question to you as I am asking myself the same question.

You are in this place of standing for your M, and you guys are not divorced.....say this goes on for 6 months even a year longer.....do you think that there will be a "change" in you that will signal to you that you are done "standing" or do you think that it will simply be the expiration of some internal deadline?

[LanceSijan]

I think the answer to your question MHL is that when the pain of divorcing becomes less than the pain of standing that is when the you start to approach the right mind set.

An internal time line is a mistake, I believe, if I asked you a year ago if you would be doing what you are doing today what would you have said?

You don't know what will happen in the future.
I mean you or your wife could be in a car accident next month.
How would that change everything?

[Truegritter]

say this goes on for 6 months even a year longer.....do you think that there will be a "change" in you that will signal to you that you are done "standing" or do you think that it will simply be the expiration of some internal deadline?

I think either is possible.

I believe, as you have said, I have made considerable progress though this process.

I have done that through having faith in this process, the wise people here, and my own self examination.

I have so far been able to recognize when I have been "stuck" and push through.

I know that when I began this my M was taking more out of me than I was getting back. And it had been that way for a while with my W's crisis.

Now I find instead of it taking from me I am putting more back to it then I am getting...

but the thing is

As strange as this may sound, it is making up for what was taken.

And the even stranger thing? I control that. I control what I put back in the cup until it runs over.

That is the mystery I have learned. The paradox. We cannot measure this by what we get or expect to get. It will always fall short...

It is what you choose that counts. What you choose to give.

There is no script here missher, I don't have a crystal ball.

I don't consider my M over yet.

I don't know when I will but it is not today.

I am in the healthiest place I can ever remember being in my life.

I trust myself. My days of self doubt are fewer and fewer.

I do not fear the future. I do not fear the fate of my M.

I can no more describe the "change" in me when I make a decision to move on from my M than I could beginning this process and telling you where I am today.

You know all this is something you have to live to know.

Experience.

You do not offend me by asking but you are looking for a formula my friend and there isn't one.

I realize how confused your W is and it is more than apparent in her communication with you.

So do I and that is ALL I know for certain.

There is no cost to me, no sacrifice right now that I see for me to live this decision. I do it willingly for myself and what I believe.

Part of it is an expression of love and the honoring of my vows the way I choose to express that and act for that.

It matters not that my W sees that or understands that.

It matters not whether anyone else sees that or understands that.

I have had faith in this process from the beginning and that is what I still have...

Whatever I choose in the future.

One of my favorite quotes about love is the last line of Corinthians 1 Chapter 13.

"Faith, hope and love, abide these three, but the greatest of these is love."

[LanceSijan]

There is no cost to me, no sacrifice right now that I see for me to live this decision. I do it willingly for myself and what I believe.

This is because of your detachment.
You are doing well TG.
Keep on this path.

[lolawar]

Hi Grit

Just catching up...I think you are doing a great job responding to your W. You definitely are in a better place now than several months ago.

I am just a little bit concerned about her asking for help in the form of money (although I know this was several weeks back)...and I have said this to you before. I know it is a catch 22- if you don't help her out...she may say you weren't there for her when you needed her. But by giving her money...you are enabling her. She isn't suffering the consenquences of her actions...or lack of action.

Just my opinion...FWIW.

Did you establish the boundary....no more financial help while OM is still in the picture?

[Truegritter]

Did you establish the boundary....no more financial help while OM is still in the picture?

Yes.

[cat04]

If we have done all the hard work, answered all the hard questions, and our actions are reflecting who we are.....how do we know when it is time to stop standing and "move on"? And I do mean "move on".

I only ask this as I myself am feeling things change within me, I am starting to question how much longer do I stand. If I have truly done the work how would I know that it is time?

What I am getting at here is that the place we arrive at that allows us to stand for our M's in a healthy manner is probably the same place that allows us to leave our M's in an equally healthy manner. Sooooo.....how do I discern the difference or is it even possible?

Miss,

I know you asked Grit this question, but I felt like I wanted to answer. You are not the only one who has asked themselves these very questions.

Through my journey, more than one time I reached points where I felt "done." I really wasn't. Some days I wanted to be, other days, I just wanted my M back.

These feelings were the scariest part of the process.

I didn't want to ever be done. I really didn't. I fought it very hard. For more reasons than most people here know. It wasn't just because I wanted my marriage, it was because of other things within myself that I finally had to face and heal as well.

Until the time came, when I didn't ask myself if I was really feeling done, I just was. When I really didn't wonder, even for a second, if I had done all that I could to stand. Had I really been honest with myself about H and myself and the state of our M? What was I willing to live with or without in my life, what did I want in another person, and could that person be my H?

If you question your feelings, then you are not ready to make a choice. If you are uncertain, then you are not ready to "move on".

After I knew for sure, I spent months greiving my M. Grieving on the inside, and standing and continuing to "move forward" with my life, to the rest of the world. When I was finally done grieving, that was when I knew it was time to "move on."

You cannot rush the process. You do a disservice to yourself, your children, your Spouse, and anyone else who may come into your life, if you try to rush this.

I read something once that has stayed with me through all of this...

"Trust is the absence of doubt"

It took me not doubting myself to be able to trust in my decision. That is when and how you will know.

[punkin]

I mentioned sometime ago that I had a friend who wanted to be more than a friend. That after I explained that was just not going to happen anytime soon, that I still loved my H and wanted our M, he seemed to accept this and we continued on.

I can say with no doubt that I have tried very hard to always keep things on a strictly friends terms with us, but the other day, he mentioned that after my divorce in November . . . .

I had to explain that IF I become divorced on November 17th, it didn't mean that I would wake up on November 18th, and be OVER IT. READY TO MOVE ON - - - NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. You can't wash away 20 years like a dirt stain on your hand. Well, evidently H can, but I can't.

My friend became almost angry with me, told me I was a 'quality woman' and deserved so much better. I know that, but unfortunately, no one has told my heart. The heart wants what the heart wants. Period

[MHL]

Grit,
My friend I am sorry for the hi-jack here. Lance, Cat and Punkin I will respond on my thread and continue there, thank you for your thoughts.

Cheers