I've been "lurking" on this site for a couple of months and now really appreciate knowing I'm not alone. I would really appreciate some advice on what folks think and the best way to continue down this positive path I've been going. I apologize in advance because I don't know all the abbreviations. I'm hoping that's not a pre-req! Here's my story:
My H and I have been together for 12 years. We actually met playing games online and we were both in unhappy marriages. His was already in the midst of divorce although his wife was pregnant. This blows my mind but she asked for one more kid and he agreed. They are both highly educated and intelligent people. I was amazed that they would want to do this but I try not to judge. My marriage was never great - we had a strange relationship and my ex H was stepping outside the marriage, emotionally unavailable (as was I)
My H and I "dated" long distance while we were both still married for over a year. Our D's were final around the same time. We maintained the secretive relationship for another year or so. When we finally came out there was no suspicion of an affair from anyone around us. We were like yin and yang for a very long time. We played it slow to make sure this was the real thing because of it being such an odd start. He has two boys and they were 2 and 7 when I finally met them. We had been openly dating 7 months by that time. Apparently (I hear from several sources) he was a horrible dad until they split. I saw nothing but an amazing father. His ex and friends couldn't believe how much he had changed and he's still an amazing involved father to this day and we have a great relationship with the ex. Even having family meetings when the boys are having typical teen and preteen issues...spend every Christmas together as a family and just really get along. It's all about putting the kids first.
We married 6 years ago, he asked my dad first, then told his kids and they picked out a ring together...all before I knew any of this was happening. We were not planning on having kids but we had a surprise almost a year into our marriage. We have an amazing 4 year old son together and he continues to be an incredible father. Again, people are telling me he was never like this with his first two until they were not together. Because this was a surprise - he asked if I did it on purpose. I was devastated. Did he really think I would do something like that? Then the entire pregnancy and about 6 months into our little guys life - he would tell complete stranger the baby was a surprise. I felt a lot of resentment toward him because of this and many times felt like he didn't love our son, even through his actions showed otherwise. I accused him of it several times. I felt like we were two different families: him and his two sons, me and my son. I found myself resenting them and not feeling as close to them as I had (I was super step mom and we had an amazing bond) Some of it has been typical parental - teen and preteen relationship issues though) The first 1.5 years I stayed home with my son and things between my H and I were pretty good with the exception of this issues. I felt like his x started to take advantage of my stay at home status and he didn't stand up for me. She asked me to do some things that I thought were very wrong for her kids but I respected her as a mom. I was always, ALWAYS cordial to her and NEVER spoke poorly of her around her sons. But it never mattered to him, he always defended her to me when we were arguments about her. In the time I was staying home both of his parents fell extremely ill and it was a very difficult time for the family. I took charge and spent a great deal of time caring for them and bonding with them. They have both since passed. I feel a tremendous loss but he never speaks of it. I cry sometimes about missing them and it's almost like he feels nothing. I tend to feel guilty and stifle my mourning because it feels strange that I would miss them more than he would.
I went back to work, as I mentioned, and that was 3.5 years ago. I was on a very driven career path and felt I needed to make up for lost time. I worked too much (60-70 hours a week) and was consumed with my job. It was an extremely important job to my organization and continues to be although I've found balance (which I'll talk about when I talk about my 180)
Sex: We had an incredible sex life before the baby. After the baby - he wasn't interested. Rationally, I know it was because he was concerned about getting pregnant again, but I felt very rejected. Once he was interested in sex again (solid birth control in the picture) I was no longer interested. We had sex but not often at all and that became a source of issues as well.
I think I was going through a depression about 4-5 months ago (it had been going on for a while) I shared with him that I felt like a failure in every aspect of my life: a mother, a wife, a daughter, a friend, an employee, everything. He would respond but barely. One night we got into a fight about something trivial and I threw a plate (damaged our floor) and walked out. The first time I've done something like this. I drove in a snow storm and thought about ending it all. A song came one the radio Patience by Guns and Roses, which was a song that played at a friends funeral that had committed suicide. I remembered how angry I was at him 20 years ago and thought of the devastation that left behind when he took his own life and decided to come home. When I got here, my H and Son were playing a game and he started to include me in the game and I never spoke of the thoughts I was having but reached out to a therapist that Monday and started therapy immediately. I really started to get my life in order. I wrote my husband a long letter about how I wanted him to see how much I was trying because I could feel him pulling away from me. I also let him know, in a very non judgmental way, that I was tired of how critical he was of me. He wrote me back and said he took some responsibility for his actions, thinks that I miss him and he missed me too. I thought we were on the right track. However, I kept feeling him pull away.
For whatever reason, I feel I should mention that 1.5 yrs ago we went on weight watchers together and have both lost 50 lbs and look better than either of us have probably in our adult lives. We are working out regularly. I've even ran in some races.
One night, he mentioned the name of someone he's worked with for 2+ years, completely in passing, but my gut told me there's something going on. I ended up being right but it took a month or so to get it out of him. I don't think they are having a PA but a strong EA. I "caught" him - having lunch with her one day - although he still doesn't know that I didn't - I just had that gut feeling again and called him on it. I had a melt down. I called her over and over with him right there then finally left her a message that this was ______'s wife and I would like for her to call me. We cried together, he said he didn't know what he wanted this went on for what seemed like hours but it was really only about 20 minutes. That night I wrote her a REALLY nice letter and respectfully asked her to step away. She responded with "I don't know what to say" We picked up our DS together and went to a festival then the movies....like nothing happened. I've had some horrible outburst of anger - kicking him out of bed - one day even hitting him when he jokingly through something at me (my DS pjs) I was threatening to kick her arse - I'm pretty buff now...lol. However, I've stopped that. BTW, I know her. I've gone to a concert with her and work events. I liked her. She's 4 years younger than me and cute but, frankly, not any cuter than me. She has a 2 year son and just finalized a divorce. My belief is they began talking about her divorce and commiserating about "bad relationships" and it grew from there. I truly believe and friends confirm there has been no other affairs.
We've been going to counseling - he goes and says he's going for a reason but he's shut down. We have been doing more together than we ever did before. Not fighting. I've done my 180 and he's almost resentful. I'm doing more with his boys. I was always late. I'm striving to be on time even early - everywhere. I didn't do much around the house (i was so exhausted from work) I've been doing it all. I don't work more than 40 hours, actually usually less. He actually said in one counseling session, she's become super mom and wife and now I have nothing to complain about, I just don't feel the love anymore.
I believe he is still talking to her. I actually saw her last week because he's out of town and his son is doing an internship for his company (doing a project for HER) and i needed to pick him up. I asked her to look out for him (he's 16 but really shy) She looked scared when she saw me. She looked pitiful in my opinion. I thought I would feel rage - I thought I would want to kill her but I had none of that. We locked eyes and the end and she looked sad. I'm not sure how I looked but I hope to God it was confident.
He's out of town for 1.5 week and in another country. Communication is hard to come by but he seemed to make a concerted effort to download skype so we could talk. I've had an amazing week. I've got an unbelievable network of people supporting me. Socially, I've been extremely active. I can't read how he feels about this. He's still calling me every morning and every night (right now, his nights are our days) My DS keeps talking about how much he misses him which is killing me.
I want to save my marriage, I want us to be stronger after all of this ends. But every time it seems like we are having a good time or things are going well, he physically begins to rub his face and head (he's bald) and a wall goes up. We end up right back where were were.
He's stopped telling me he loves me. I've pretty much stopped saying it to him (occasionally it slips) He will NOT have sex with me. We've had sex a couple times after some drinks but that's been a while. He's sending me such mixed messages. He texts me and emails me almost all day. He didn't do that before. He buys me little gifts (he's always done that) and seems to be making a true effort to physically be with me. But emotionally he won't let himself go there.
One more tidbit that will make ya'll think I'm crazy : ) When I first found out about the OW - I hid his viagra. I thought better of it and put it back. But not before counting it. I made the mistake of telling him I did it. He then took two out of there (I really can't imagine he's had time to have sex with her and he's really, really insecure) When I confronted him about the 2 misses (I know, I know, I shouldn't have done that either) he took the whole bottle and it's gone. I confronted him about that and he said he just didn't want me to do that again. I of course got pissed because he's not using them with me for sure AND I've been nothing but honest with him about everything.
And the last thing: (sorry this is so long but I have to get it all out) Right now, it seems like if I get angry, he gets nicer. I don't want to be angry. I'm in such an amazing place right now. Stronger and more balanced than ever. People I barely know asking me what I'm doing because I look peaceful. Rejoining the world of the living and having an amazing life. He hugs me if I cry....but I don't want to be angry or cry to get him to emotionally connect with me. I cry when I should and laugh when I should...anything else is manipulative.
This has been going on for about 2 months...I've successfully done the 180 - I've done pieces of going dark...but I'm worried I can't keep up this fight forever. I see people on here that have done it for years...I'm just not sure I can. He basically did it for 2 years with his ex so I know he can. Part of me thinks he's stringing me along to see how it pans out with the OW and I can't help but think "good, cuz how long can SHE put up with this?" Part of me wants to tell him when he gets home that I'm done. He'll have to pay child support on 3 kids. I don't know how he'll do it. I've done the calculations - I'll be fine.
So there it is. Any advice or additional questions are extremely welcome. Thanks for taking the time to read my story!
Relationship/M based on infidelity/lies will not last forever. Vicious circle theory with all my respect
Me:52 W:50 M:30 D:19S:27 Discovered EA:08/08 denied W insisted on D+ILYBNILWY:08/08 Exposed wrong OMW:10/08 Found exact OM's ID 2/09 Expose OMW son, not sure OMW knows yet 25 months after still a rollercoaster
HFK, I am so sorry you find yourself here. I am still relatively new to DB but have been living through my hell for a little over seven months. You will get great advice here and my advice is to listen. Don't lose hope, but also don't expect, if things could improve, that it will happen overnight, a week, a month, or even a year. Take care of you.
I am sure the experts will be around soon to say hello.
ShellDoll
Last edited by ShellDoll; 08/09/1012:56 AM.
Me 41/H 49 M 12yrs No Kids Bomb 1/10/2010 H Deployed The three great essentials to achieve anything worth while are, first, hard work; second, stick-to-itiveness; third, common sense. T. Edison
I guess what I am having a VERY hard time understanding is how can say there are not any other affairs, when in fact, there certainly was and it was you!
You sort of gloss over how you met your H as if it's *kinda* wrong but really deep down it all worked out for you so who cares!
What sort of therapy are you getting as an individual? It's sort of shocking to me (which I realize means very little to you) that you would be surprised your H would have an affair.
What are you wanting the end result to be both for yourself and for your H?
I understand these are hard observations to read but hard or not they are factual as per your post and IMO are significant.
It's not hard to read because it's true and you probably can't say anything worse to me than I've already said to myself "this is karma" "what did you expect" even " you deserve this" It was VERY wrong and I don't pretend for a second it wasn't but theres only so much you can put in a post ( this was already nearly a novel)
I'm in individual therapy and have been for about 5 months. It's really, really helped me tremendously! My husband just reached out for individual therapy but hasn't gone yet.
My hope for the end result is that we get through this stronger than before. I know what we did was wrong and probably now more than ever, but if people can't change , why are any of us here?
Me:38 H: 45 OW:34 S:4 Bonus S: 12 and 16 2nd M for both Together 12 yrs M: 6 EA suspected: 5/10 confirmed: 7/2/10 Separated: 8/12/10
Your story isn't at all surprising. Do you know 99% of affair couples that run off together to try to live happily ever efter end up in a huge ugly mess like yours above? You know most affair couples that run off together one of them ends up cheating on the other AGAIN? It's a pattern and changing isnt' the issue, its maturity.
Wrong? That's not the word for it... You allowed a man to abandon his wife and children... you were the homewrecker there... And Your currnt H ruined your marriage too... You both have histories as homewreckers... You can't expect the home you two try to build is going to result in anything other than another broken home... 99% of the time this IS what happens...
This isnt' about wrong, or karma.. its just facts. Individual Therapy? You two BOTH need FAMILY THERAPY not invididual therapy.. YOu two need to understand what being a COUPLE means... and what respecting OTHER peole trying to be a COUPLE means.
I am not trying to beat you up here, I want to wake you up... Do you think you two can build a home together with this kind of history without a LOT of hassles?
Of course your husabnd is defending his xwife... She bore his children.. you attack that poor woman that HE ABANDONED for YOU and he will go after you... guaranteed...
Do you understand how delicate this situation is and how much maturity it will take to pull it off?
it CAN be done but I really dont' think you understand that your history follows you for the rest of your life...
Feeling bad isn't the issue here... You need to realize you two have a huge monkey on your backs for the rest of your lives... THAT you need to deal with in FAMILY therapy, not with a shrink in private but as a couple
HK have you made any effort to apologize to your Husband's xwife?
Do you realize that she went through WORSE than what you are going through now with OW?
You haven't been abandoned by your husband yet... In my opinion you need to treat his xwife like GOLD and LIVE with it...
You really need to understand the statistics here and the changes you both need to make.. its HUGE
Your marriage was never strong before, it was a smokescreen with a grenade in the middle waiting to blow...
COuple that run of togehter crash and burn almost EVERY TIME... like you two now have...
Can you save this? Maybe... but its giong to take a LOT of maturity on your part and your H's... and your histories don't indicate you have that built up yet...
Your H has strayed TWICE now... on women WHO BORE HIS CHILDREN... Do you really think this man has the maturity it takes to make a marriage work right now?
He may be able to build it up evetntually, but he is no where near it now...
And this opens the question how many other times has he cheated you haven't found out about yet?
You get what you pay for my dear... I would like to help you, but you really need to understand what you are dealing with and I don't think you do yet...
Love As An Excuse For Infidelity Penny R. Tupy 2003
So often in my work with spouses whose mates are in the midst of an affair I hear the anguished fear that because he or she claims to be, "in love" with the affair partner, it must mean that the marriage is over and the cheating lovers are meant to be together. Soulmates - because they now feel the intense passion of a fantasy relationship.
But of course they are, "in love." That's what an affair is. It's what the addiction is. It's an emotional response (without rationality, commitment or long term thinking) that causes us to do things that are not in our best interests and that hurt other people and destroy what we have worked hard to build in our lives - things like homes and families.
The idea that love should be the deciding factor is any of this is completely erroneous. As is the idea that love is some magical chemistry between two people. It's neither of those things. Romantic love really is nothing more than a mathematical equation. Spend enough time with someone meeting intimate needs of conversation, affection, admiration, and play time - and you will fall in love with that person. Assuming of course that they are not doing things you find offensive or objectionable at the same time.
The interesting thing about new infatuation/love is that we are blinded by the offensive or objectionable things at first. I think the pleasure of having needs met by someone new captures our attention to the point that we block out the less desirable traits. But like any addiction, what worked at first to create a high soon becomes not enough - we want more. When that happens in romantic relationships the irritating things seem to grow in proportion as the pleasure from getting needs met slackens. Unless real change takes place at this time - unless the real work of building a relationship kicks in - romantic love will wane.
This is when the instinct to demand more, to be rude or even to lose our tempers takes over. This is when the internal shift from, "You are so wonderful, what can I do for you," to "You aren't doing enough for me and I'm not willing to do anything for you - you jerk," occurs. This is where real marriage happens, when we move from - feeling like it- to making the commitment to doing what it takes to craft a truly connected and compatible relationship. This is where real love is grown.
For those, who have never honored commitment when the going got tough this is where they begin to bail. So, yes, I am sure that affair partners are in love. Does that mean it's the right place for them or that they have met 'the one'? Of course not. It means that they are in the habit of going for the feeling rather than committing to doing the work of making a truly successful relationship. Unless something greatly changes for these men and women, they will do the same again, and again. They will not find lasting happiness until they get it that marriage is more than feeling. Being in love is important, but staying there is what separates the men from the boys.
Be an advocate for marriage. When you hear of infidelity, take a stand. Refuse to condone affairs and "friendships" that threaten the integrity of the marriage bond. Educate your friends and families on the seriousness of becoming involved outside the marriage. Love is not an excuse for betrayal and abandonment. Love based on that foundation is like a house built on sand.
All the best, Penny
You see HK i am not concerned right now with teh "wrongness" of the situation... I am concerned that you and he dont' seem to have learned your lessons yet... especially him...
You may just be starting to learn now... but you and he have a long way to go... CAN you make it?
Yes if you two choose to do the work to get you there... you two decide that...
But you both need to full own your histories and do the work to repair the damage done and aviod repeating it... whcih is exactly what your H is doing and exactly what Penny above predicted would happen
We aren't trying to beat you up here, we are just giving you the facts... We haven't addressed wrong yet... that's a whole other business...
My focus right now is that you get informed on infideilty facts... And I don't think you are... And clearly your H isn't...
Here's my story: