New Game- Exposed

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Puppy, does THIS answer my questions?
[quote=Missherlove]
I would only respond as "busy now get back with you later" then never do so.

I actually disagree with this one. I think it's imperative, in all things, to DO WHAT YOU SAY YOU ARE GOING TO DO. If you're not sure you're going to call her back later, then say so: "I'll try to give you a call back tonite, but I've got a busy evening planned -- no promises. If not, we'll definitely catch up tomorrow" -- or some such.

You want to be the one person acting with total character and integrity right now.

(Actually, that's not a bad way to live always).

Puppy

[CD Bear]

You want to be the one person acting with total character and integrity right now.

Thanks, Puppy. You are absolutely right. Otherwise I'm playing games like she is. Not ME. Not interested.

Thanks.

Lead!
Be the ADULT, right?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Right.

[CD Bear]

I am SO looking forward to the weekend to get my head back together. Plus, I spend all day tomorrow driving so that'll be a nice "quiet time" if the phone stays silent.

Gonna clean the house (inside and out) and finish packing her stuff.

Then set another mediator appt for week of 23rd; get my bank docs assembled; back taxes done; and do some "light reading" (N.U.T.S; Getting Real)

[gardengirl72]

CD,

When my H couldn't make the decision to stop talking to OW, I decided it was time to set a boundary.

I told him I could no longer be his friend....and that meant....I no longer wanted to do things together or talk to him on the phone. He was upset and left.

I did not hear from him nor did I contact him.

About 2 weeks later, I received a letter in the mail. It stated my H had purchased a $28,000.00 tractor!!!

He financed $18,000.00!

Needless to say, I was on the phone immediately!

His answer: "YOU TOLD ME NOT TO CALL YOU!!!"

WTF.....Silly me...I didn't explain, if you think you might be purchasing a tractor for $28000.00, I would like to know!!

In hindsight, a better idea would have been to say, contact me with anything pertaining to finances/house/vehicles/kids/pets, but in my case my H would have probably found a loop hole in that too! ~gg.

[CD Bear]

A little update and some 'thinking out loud"
Looking to accidentally come up with the answer, I guess.

So, after a day of loud music to keep me going as I cleaned the house and packed up most of her stuff (Good Lord, the clothes. I filled 4 boxes 4'x1'w x 1'. Had to run to the office to get more. 1 complete box of jeans; 2 of just tops and shirts. Unbelievable. Bet I came across 30 items that still had the tags on 'em)

I also pulled all her stuff from the bathrooms and started pulling the pictures I wanted (of me or my family). I have all the D2 stuff digitally. Wedding pics? Not interested.

So I'm sitting outside with a nice roaring fire. And I'm having troublr figuring out "where I am in all this"

-The affair continues
-The "friendly, sometimes personal" texts continue. (none today)
-I don't see that anything is working.
-I'm drifting along on GAL'ing but not sure what else to do.
(working out, eating better, talking to friendsa and family more)
-I can't really say I'm 180'ing anything cause with the A and her not being here, the things I "forgot" in the M are pointless now (physical touch; good converstion, etc)
-I am listening to NMMNG again and read Hold on...N.U.T's last night. Good info but left me aimless. I don't know where to start on my Non-negotiable Terms.

Being alone the last two days- that I thought would help- is turning out to be the worst thing. I'm left alone with my brain that simply rolls back and forth on how to feel and what to do next.
What do I know?

-The affair makes me sick to my stomach. The thought of them disturbs me. Makes me angry.

-I am disappointed in myself for letting the marriage deteriorate to this point. It didn't have to turn out this way.

-My biggest failing was putting up with crap attitudes and behaviour for far too long as well as "giving away" my friends, family and hobbies (thereby my self-respect and character in the process).

-I still want my marriage back but I really can't say for 10 minutes in a row that I want my W back (see A above). Of course, I don't want the old M back but I still firmly believe she and I could fix this and make it better than ever.

-though I talk a good game, could I REALLY get past the affair with the "goober"? How do you "block" that memory from coming back forever?

-Is the best thing to just LEAD and get this divorce underway by pushing the Separation Agreement? It has to be done or the cake eating and disrespect of the ongoing affair makes me appear to me; her and even the OM as pathetic.

-On the other hand, I've seen it written over and over to never PUSH for the divorce. I need to understand the mindset here.

a)Am I doing it to shock her back? I understood that doing something to get them bck never works.
b)To gain some respect regarding open marriage boundary?
c)The only other reason is that I actually want a divorce from her and I can't say that for sure.

I know I'm thinking and analyzing too much but I'm desperately trying to KNOW what the next action needs to be.

Do I still love her? Yes.
Do I want her back? I can't say
Do I really just want a do-over? Maybe
Do I respect her? No. The betrayal is overwhelmimg. Every day she continues the A and still tries to be friendly just P's me off worse and worse.
And I know I can't live like this.

SO, given that I just answered the question of what to do nect (Separation Agreement), I still don't know the right attitude or mindset to carry into it with?

Sorry, but I'm adrift as to my motivation.

How can I LEAD the Sep agreement process and still want her back?
How can I want her back given what she has done to "the family"?
How can I divorce someone I still care for this much?
How do I lead Separation without it coming off as an "affair busting and/or get her back" ploy?

I need a "point" in the right direction.

How did I get so far off course?

[LanceSijan]

CD the only thing I can say to you is that sometimes, when you don't know what to do the best course of action is to do NOTHING!
Be still.
Can you stop this D train and do nothing?

While the train is pulled off the tracks you can work on
sorting out in your mind what to do.
Wait for the fog to clear.

That is what you should do.

[Truegritter]

-The affair makes me sick to my stomach. The thought of them disturbs me. Makes me angry.

Listen man. You just went through a very intense time focusing on nothing but the A.

It is time to detach from her and ALL her actions, convo's, texts, emails, letter's and carrier pigeon messages until you can do it without anger.

Got me?

Take yourself out of this sh!tstorm FIRST.

Then these

I am disappointed in myself for letting the marriage deteriorate to this point. It didn't have to turn out this way.

-My biggest failing was putting up with crap attitudes and behaviour for far too long as well as "giving away" my friends, family and hobbies (thereby my self-respect and character in the process).

questions need to be answered.

Why did you do this? More importantly WHAT in YOU caused this to occur?

Also I have been thinking about your thread. And your age difference reallly stung didn't it?

Why? What were you seeking from your W? What part of you needed that validation and

Still needs it?

How can I LEAD the Sep agreement process and still want her back?

May I suggest this is boundary to protect you. Financially and if you really need it...emotionally or

How do I lead Separation without it coming off as an "affair busting and/or get her back" ploy?

Is it this?

I need a "point" in the right direction.

CD you are in control of only you.

Go to the mirror and point straight into it...that

is the direction you need to go.

Be clear of what your are doing (sep agreement) and why.

If you are not sure.

Don't act.

Your actions(and inaction) speak the loudest.

Will it make you feel better if you initiate the sep or divorce?

Why?

You have time I think. Take it and use it my friend for YOU.

[CD Bear]

Thank, Lance.

While there is no "panic" to proceed with Divorce, the Separation Agreement should still be done. But there isn't really a time limit.

I really don't like the idea of doing nothing but I understand that I need to know what to do 'sequentially' and WHY I'm doing something so my actions are consistent and aligned with my position and/or boundaries.

And I think my answer just answered that question.

The affair crosses the boundary so I proceed with Separation Agreement. THAT is my motivation. MY BOUNDARY.

Guess I owe you more thanks than I thought.

[CD Bear]

Hi, TG!

Lance's post this morning helped me find ONE answer while I answered him.

"I will not live in an open marriage. Until the A is over, I will proceed with divorce".

So, on to your post.

It is time to detach from her and ALL her actions, convo's, texts, emails, letter's and carrier pigeon messages until you can do it without anger.

Three issues here.
1) detaching from her 'meesages'
-Do I text her something next time I get a non-D or non-Separation msg? Or simply not respond to what I'll call "personal" communication? NOT responding seems rude and 'cold' which is more of the same from the M
2)detach from her actions
-though I don't have to see what she is doing, my mind is using presumptions and filling in the picture for me. Not sure how to stop this (I am 'seeing' things going OK for her; she is happy/content/non-caring about what she is doing)
3) ..without anger
-detaching would lessen the anger. The anger comes from the initial betrayal; my self-loathing about my 50% that could have prevented this; the continuation of the A which is continued disrespect; my perception she doesn't care about disrespecting; the fact my D is exposed to W and OM and 'enablers'; and assorted other little things that cross my mind from time to time.

I need to re-read the detaching pdf and get my mind back in the game, I guess. I need the right perspective on this to keep me "detached".
e.g perspective on what and why I amd doing things
and, probably more importantly, how to frame or self-correct my views when I do think about her.

Regarding your questions....

Why did you do this? More importantly WHAT in YOU caused this to occur?

Pretty easy, I think.
-Fear of conflict
-Approval of/validation by women (esp wife)
-Her happiness tied to my happiness
All the answers are in NMMNG.

...your age difference really stung didn't it?

Why? What were you seeking from your W? What part of you needed that validation and..still needs it?

The age question stung for two reasons. I had questioned myself on this prior to marriage and was quite satisfied that I wasn't marrying her for the "wrong reasons". I didn't see myself as a 43 year old so what did her age have to do with it?(she didn't act as immature as any 25 YO I knew)
Though there was certainly something ego-enhancing to the age difference, that was not why I was marrying her.
The other sting was the inherent accusation that I was that shallow; that she was immature and I was blind to it; and that even if she did come back she would most likely leave me again.

To answer your questions, I was seeking a more youthful existence. Her age mirrored where I saw myself despite what my birth certificate said. I was in that point in my life. I was getting what I didn't get during my 30's. And doing what I wasn't doing. Being with her reminded me of how I felt with my last long term, happy when I was late 20's. (BTW, THAT turned out a lot like this one, too. Blindsided) Did I see this as a do-over or the opportunity to prove the last one wasn't my fault? Was I with W as a "surrogate"? Honestly, no. I truly loved and appreciated her. I was quite content with my life prior to meeting her and she just enhanced or topped up the low spots- added the youthful, fun, adventurous, 'sharing a life' feeling that was missing. And I believed that she truly appreciated me in her life. We were inseparable and really enjoyed doing things together.
As time went on, and it got serious, I didn't want to lose this part of my life so I adjusted as required. You can't behave completely 'single' when you are not, right? I just didn't know when to stop. I didn't see how much some of the "concessions" would cost me personally.
So I don't believe I "sold my soul" because she was 25. I did it because I liked what she brought to my life and how I felt about her and when I was with her. I liked how I felt motivated; proud; and confident either from my happiness or from her encouragement and pride in me.

If you want to dig further here, I'm all ears. We could work it out on the alt and post the conclusions here? Mind you, might be cathartice to me and helpful to others to do it "in public".

How can I LEAD the Sep agreement process and still want her back?

May I suggest this is boundary to protect you. Financially and if you really need it... emotionally

I came to this exact conclusion with Lance this morning. Thanks for confirming this perspective. It 'should' also assist with the detachment/letting go.

How do I lead Separation without it coming off as an "affair busting and/or get her back" ploy?

Is it this?

Well, ultimately, since I am on this site, my optimum end-game would be to not have to divorce and keep my family intact. So, yes, I would have to say that this is "the point"

However, I do also now see that I am missing the "CD issue" that it is first and foremost a "BOUNDARY" that goes to my core. I can see that I didn't set them at all in the M and regardless of the "end game", I need to re-commit to setting them for both:
-Respect from W
-Self-respect
-protect my D
-establish the starting point/conditions for my "future"-whatever that becomes.

Finally, the answers.... (I rearranged the sequence and numbered the contents of your initial post)

1-Your actions(and inaction) speak the loudest.

2-Be clear of what your are doing (sep agreement) and why.

3-Will it make you feel better if you initiate the sep or divorce?
Why?

4-Go to the mirror and point straight into it...that
is the direction you need to go.

5-If you are not sure.
Don't act.

Answers I needed.
1-Absolutely. Inconguency and lack of CONVICTION/CONFIDENCE behind actions is obvious to anyone looking. Both reek of weakness and lack of self-respect and character.

2-Why? Because it enforces my personal boundary; protects me from her actions regarding finances/property; establishes a line that MUST be respected and indicates that there WILL be additional boundaries in the future; gives me a concrete "starting point" for my future so I can begin to plan and implement it.

3-Though I would have initially thought "no, it won't" because of the wrong perspective, the answer is now "yes, it will" due to my answers to #1 and #2.

4-And the answer to #1-3 is the confirmtion that this is exactly where I am going and most importantly, WHY!! For my self-respect; my D; my future; my first N.U.T.!

5-I am sure now. So now I can. And for the right reasons and with 100% confidence and congruency.

Thanks, Gritter.
My weekend is going much better now.

Incidentally, I noticed W had NOT changed her banking arrangement and her cheque went into joint. So she is not "up to speed" on her personal tasks regarding the 'pursuing the D'. Futhermore, though she did withdraw the correct amount from the joint for her 'personal account', she paid a personal CC payment from the joint. Texted her that she must correct this immediately. Personal debts are NOT from JOINT acct. That'll leave her with 100 per week for the next two. Little reality check.