My wife also feels more free to touch in public, and for the same reason. She has also used the word "safe" to describe how she needs to feel. It is my impression that her view is at least in part related to childhood sexual abuse. In spite of years of therapy, she has not be able to talk about it with me. Perhaps there isn't much to say to me, if she said it all to the therapist.
But the thing is, in spite of patience and many years, she has never been able to moved beyond this withdrawal and need to feel safe to the point of avoiding sex completely.
Frustrated2, do you think your husband understands why you're more touchy and affectionate in public? And why it goes away when he gets you home?
I'm guessing he doesn't, simply because that was so hard for me. To me, it felt like deliberate taunting, as if my wife got pleasure out of feeling that she had power and control over me (she could whip up desire in me) but had no interest in actual loving contact (which I defined by the rule that if you aren't willing to do it when no one's watching, it's not real--just a show for the audience.) I hated the callous, hateful dishonesty and the manipulation of it. Of course, it would be more fair to say that I hated the dishonesty and manipulation of what I imagined my wife was doing, because she didn't see it that way. But every time we tried to talk about it, for years, she burst into tears and/or called me a sex-crazed pervert of some kind, and I spent the whole conversation trying to show how sensitive and caring and not like all the other guys I was.
When the time came--after years--when we finally talked about it for real, it took me a long time to believe what she was saying. I didn't take her at face value. My own understanding of her motives made sense to me, of course, and I'd been relying on it for years by then. I knew I'd been way too quick to accept excuses and tears because of my own failings, and I was afraid to accept her explanation (which was a lot like yours, almost word for word.)
Actually, coming here and reading that other women who were totally anonymous described the same feelings as my wife helped me a lot as I struggled to trust her again and take her at face value.
My husband does not really understand why I am more affectionate in public and not so much in private. I've tried to explain, but he has difficulty seeing it from my point of view. I would like to note that I do see how unfair it is to him and I try not to deny him, but going through the motions is not helping either one of us beyond a temporary relief in the pressure.
I don't know about other ld partners, but I never desired a sexless relationship, I understand that it is an integral aspect of marriage but in my own situation I feel like my husband pushed me away from him with his strong need and a very self centered view of how a relationship should be.
I really appreciate this forum and the willingness of the participants to share their feelings and experiences. It is because of this sharing that I have been able to feel compassion towards my husband. I think I have a long way to go in breaking down the wall of resentment, anger, and hurt that I've built up, but I would have to say that compassion is a great first step.
Thing is, he probably feels/thinks to himself (and maybe says to you) that it would be better if you just stopped "teasing" him with all the public affection and the sexy dancing . . . but that's not true. What he wants is the reality that those gestures imply; he wants them to continue, but he wants them to represent the truth of your relationship.
You both have to find a way to insist on your own integrity without demanding that the other give up his or hers. It isn't easy to do that.
as soon as we walked in she clamped onto my arm like a boa--and wouldn't let go! i actually tried to make her let go, because the way she held onto my arm felt awkward and physically uncomfortable; she should've held my hand instead.
she looked great; i told her she looked gorgeous; she was "honeying" me all night, touchy-feely as well.
we got home at 1am; she had a cold or sinus infection all day; felt horrible all night, gave me play-by-plays of how horrible she felt ("this hurts, that hurts; one side is stuffed, this side isn't; i feel like i have a fever; etc")
no sex that night.
didn't have sex until sun. only because it was our anniversary and even then she teased me saying, "who said we are going to have sex?" (i made a comment about not making out with her during sex that night. i know i was wrong for saying that, but i just had to know if i was going to have sex!)
there were no "i love yous", no statements about how happy we are that we are married to each other. we just went about our business as if it was nothing special.
but then she posted on facebook that it was her anniversary and it's been 18 yrs of happiness and bliss, and that she loves me.
as soon as we walked in she clamped onto my arm like a boa--and wouldn't let go! i actually tried to make her let go, because the way she held onto my arm felt awkward and physically uncomfortable; she should've held my hand instead.
she looked great; i told her she looked gorgeous; she was "honeying" me all night, touchy-feely as well.
we got home at 1am; she had a cold or sinus infection all day; felt horrible all night, gave me play-by-plays of how horrible she felt ("this hurts, that hurts; one side is stuffed, this side isn't; i feel like i have a fever; etc")
no sex that night.
didn't have sex until sun. only because it was our anniversary and even then she teased me saying, "who said we are going to have sex?" (i made a comment about not making out with her during sex that night. i know i was wrong for saying that, but i just had to know if i was going to have sex!)
there were no "i love yous", no statements about how happy we are that we are married to each other. we just went about our business as if it was nothing special.
but then she posted on facebook that it was her anniversary and it's been 18 yrs of happiness and bliss, and that she loves me.
why?
Why worry about why? I got to the same point. Kinda like someone punch you in the face for no reason, really no reason - you where the target they chose. If they do it once and you retaliate, fine.
Say its your wife. She does it. You ask "why". She does it again, you ask "why". After a while you realize she's just going to do it.
I wouldn't worry about the why, I would have a problem due to the way she likes to communicate to me.
Well, if you really want to know . . . ask her why.
When she tries to play it off (and she probably will) calmly insist that she tell you why.
And if you're genuinely fed up with the tension between her public portrayal of your marriage and the private reality, tell her so. Tell her you can't accept it anymore. Tell her the marriage she potrays in public sounds wonderful and you'd rather be in that one. Tell her you want to make that one and you want her to help you. And tell her that if you aren't able to make a a real, loving marriage with her then you'll end the marriage. This will only work if you really mean it, of course. Only you know that.
This probably sounds scary, and it is, but it's the only thing I've found that works.
the other fact of being unable to make the right decision. she bitches that i don't make decisions with the kids, but then when i do, it turns out to be the wrong one! for example: today my 14 yr old son went biking on a dirt trail. i told him he needs to wear a helmet; he refused. i let him go anyway not enforcing my rule. i get a phone call from him saying to come get him because he fell and got hurt--nothing major, just a cut.
of course it could've been worse!
turns out that my bride was totally against him going on this trail, but bit her tongue until the incident. she lashed into me saying that i should've enforced the helmet rule, but she didn't want to say anything!
my life with her as parents has been hell!!!! she always proves me wrong, and makes me feel like a complete idiot! i do make tons of parental mistakes, but she hardly makes any, and it drives me crazy!! or i should say that when she does make a mistake, i don't pulverize her with guilt or try to make her feel like an idiot!
this has been a complete thorn in both our sides. she can never ever let things pass quietly just saying that i am only human and an man and that women know better and let by-gones-be-by-gones! it always has to go into a place that is dark and deep--like being locked in a box being given the third degree: "why did you do this? what were you thinking? what made you say that?"
she's always the bad guy, and i'm always the good guy as well, making her nuts!
this attitude of hers--her way or the highway--has been like this since day one, and i now realize why i've put up with her righteous attitude: our sex life. wrong answer! how wrong this really is!!! there's is nothing i can do that is right! when i don't react like her, because i am a very laid-back person, she gets angry at me! then when i do react angrily at the kids, she says, "why are you yelling at them?"
it's always a catch-22 with her!! even when i do make my point or win an argument, she never ever admits her wrong, her fault, or say that i am right!
becoming parents has really put a wedge between us as husband and wife, and i truly feel that due my errors as a parent throughout the years has put a toll on her, on me creating a complete lack of respect from her towards me developing this sexless marriage.
if she has no more respect for me as a man, as a person, how and why would she want to have sex with me more than once a month, when she only wants it? why should she go out of her way to make me feel good if i don't make her feel good?
You're asking good questions. Your frustration feels like it's coming off my monitor in waves. You must be seething. But let's get this straight first: you and she made the same decision about the boy on the bike. You both let him ride off without a helmet. You did it because you wanted the boy to think well of you (or because you weren't sure you could stop him?) and she did it because she "didn't want to say anything" (or because she was hoping you'd get a lesson?) The bottom line is that she did what you did. Neither of you made the choice you really thought was right.
YOU are going to have to have confidence in your decisions. You didn't make the wrong decision; you made the right one, but your son challenged it and you backed down. I would bet that's what really upsets you about it, and having her point it out only emphasizes it for you. Letting him ride without a helmet isn't the end of the world (did you wear a helmet on your bike when you were a kid? I do now, but I didn't then) but requiring him to wear it was the smarter decision and you made it.
Do you often go through a routine like this one? You ask her what you should do. She says "I don't care." You suggest a choice in a questioning tone, and she shoots it down. You suggest another one, and she waves that off, too. You're getting frustrated, as you suggest another choice, and she says no yet again. This continues until you either suggest the option she wanted in the first place, or one of you loses his temper.
Ever do that one? I used to do it daily. It drives you crazy, but it drives her crazy too. You can short-circuit it by simply making the decision and going with it.
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turns out that my bride was totally against him going on this trail, but bit her tongue until the incident. she lashed into me saying that i should've enforced the helmet rule, but she didn't want to say anything!
Yes, that's the kind of BS I'm talking about. The thing is, she's wrong here. If she thought the kid should be made to wear a helmet, she should have spoken up. "Not wanting to say anything" is code for wanting you to fall on your face. But why did she want you to fall on your face? Because she keeps thinking that if you do, you'll learn to stick to your guns. (Maybe.) But just because she's wrong doesn't mean you were right.
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my life with her as parents has been hell!!!! she always proves me wrong, and makes me feel like a complete idiot! i do make tons of parental mistakes, but she hardly makes any, and it drives me crazy!! or i should say that when she does make a mistake, i don't pulverize her with guilt or try to make her feel like an idiot!
She shouldn't do that . . . but you don't control that. You control what you do. Have you told her all this, in these words? I feel compelled to point out again that your only mistake above was in not sticking to your guns. Your idea was right, not wrong. It was only in letting your kid overrule you that you fell short. Clearly you're not an idiot.
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it always has to go into a place that is dark and deep--like being locked in a box being given the third degree: "why did you do this? what were you thinking? what made you say that?"
1. It was a mistake. 2. Like I said, it was a mistake. 3. Do you understand what I mean by the word "mistake?" It means I was wrong to do it. It's not going to change.
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she's always the bad guy, and i'm always the good guy as well, making her nuts!
What about you? Does it drive you nuts? I assume this means you're the soft touch with the kids and she has to be disciplinarian? You sound like YOU are not happy with this state of affairs. If that's so, what are you going to do about it?
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this attitude of hers--her way or the highway--has been like this since day one, and i now realize why i've put up with her righteous attitude: our sex life. wrong answer! how wrong this really is!!! there's is nothing i can do that is right! when i don't react like her, because i am a very laid-back person, she gets angry at me! then when i do react angrily at the kids, she says, "why are you yelling at them?"
it's always a catch-22 with her!! even when i do make my point or win an argument, she never ever admits her wrong, her fault, or say that i am right!
What do you think makes her feel like she can insist that everything has to be her way and there can be no compromise? Could it be that she knows (because you have shown her) that she can never lose you no matter what she does? Do you think she feels like you're tied to her no matter what?
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becoming parents has really put a wedge between us as husband and wife, and i truly feel that due my errors as a parent throughout the years has put a toll on her, on me creating a complete lack of respect from her towards me developing this sexless marriage.
I agree with the bolded part. I'm glad you acknowledge your part in allowing that disrespect to develop. I don't agree with you that you caused it by yourself with your parenting errors. I don't know what they were, but you'd have to do something pretty egregious to deserve being treated with total disrespect. She has her share of responsibility. Thing is, you can't do much about her responsibility. She'll have to handle that, or not. But you can change the way you act.
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if she has no more respect for me as a man, as a person, how and why would she want to have sex with me more than once a month, when she only wants it? why should she go out of her way to make me feel good if i don't make her feel good?
OK, that's brutal. So what are you going to do about it?
Are you still as angry as you were when you typed this? If it seems like I might be beating up on you, just know that I see a lot of myself in you and I know how frustrating this is. But you don't have to keep doing what you've been doing.
#1-parenting: you have to be united. Your kid probably has a field day with the havoc he can cause, but isn't comfortable not having limits; not having parents who can guide him appropriately and fairly. (Side issue- it isn't unusual for same sex kid & parent to have jealously issues about the opposite sex parent. Parents should never take sides w/kid in front of him-must discuss privately & present united front) #2-every one of you who is saying you have differing ideas about what a good sex life is-what works for me doesn't work for him, etc. need to see a counselor. Marriage or sex counselor, but do it. Yes, it costs money, but what about costing yourselves years of your lives?
It was hell getting my H to understand & partly he was scared to death he wouldn't be able to do what I needed including tell me what/how he thinks about sex in general. I realize he may not have the vocabulary to express himself well, but his resistance to trying-to change his habit of clamming up or asking what I want him to say was a killer. The day he walked out of the counselor's office when the C asked him "Why didn't you respond to her comment?" & wouldn't take silence for an answer & asked him two more times was a breakthrough as scary as it may sound. He made a remark on the way home that didn't answer the question but showed me why he doesn't talk about certain things. And he got to realize how that stalls everything & causes misery, even if he still doesn't know why he won't talk about those things. So now he talks-not a lot, but its a start- regardless of why he finds it difficult.
Having that happen without the direction, mediation, refereeing of an objective professional would have been impossible. Someone else asked the same question I had-Why? Counselors can see your wires, or at least figure them out. They help you to see them also & facilitiate real communication between you. Yes, it is uncomfortable for both of you, but you can grow from the process. You're thinking why didn't we go before, but he wouldn't have & we weren't facing life without sex. This was a bigger fight than lack of frequency. He agreed to go and that took guts for him to do. I know how vulnerable he felt. We needed someone to move us forward instead of going in circles. So go. Let someone else help you. J
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
