Back to topic - I always learn something from you PEI. I sometimes convince myself that there aren't any 180s I could be doing but some of the stuff you just mentioned (e.g., not interfering with the kids) - I am really bad at that.
I didn't even see the thing with the kids at first - always thought of myself as helping or running interference to keep him from getting stressed out or overwhelmed ... whatever. I've decided, that unless I am afraid for my kids (and that will NEVER happen with H, he is a great daddy) then his relationship with the kids is his business. If he's short-tempered and they pull away from him, he'll have to figure out what to do about that etc. I'm really learning that different does not mean 'not as good', it simply means different and I'm letting him do this his way.
The other day he was coming down a little hard on S5 and normally I would have tried to intervene and 'fix' whatever the problem was - note that I was always really careful to not appear that I was in disagreement with H so I thought I was doing ok, not understanding that the message he got was 'here, let me, you obviously can't handle this'. This time I did nothing - even had to physically bite my tongue at one point (by the way, having lollypops around has helped keep my mouth shut a time or two as well!) - and guess what, after a couple of minutes of reflection H was down in S5s bedroom making up with him and having a tickle fight - it even included an apology. Now I know that had I interferred his emotions would have then also been directed at me and he would have let me smooth things over with S5 and then they would never have had that experience.
And I'm applying this to all facets of his parenting ... I don't get involved when he picks out their clothes, feeds them or helps with homework - unless he asks for help, and then that's what I do, I help. I don't change it or turn it into something I'm doing, I just follow his lead. Something Greek said to me really hit home. I'm trusting him to take care of them as well as I do. Period.
Feel free to come visit ... y'all are welcome anytime! Jack, I'm like you ... I love the beach in June and Sept/Oct ... not so many people, in fact there are days and beaches where you don't see another soul. Of course, in July and August it's fun to take the kids and all the people don't matter then! I love sitting on the beach at sunset, a fire made of driftwood, listening to the ocean ... now that is Peace
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Sounds like you handle the interaction between H and your S excellent.
I too love the beach..loved the pics.. thanks.
Jack - I feel for you dude - "otters", rocks..
Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
I like the lollipop idea for keeping quiet when you H is dealing with the kids. Got a chuckle out of that.
Sounds like you're really doing well with keeping out of his R with the kids. I know how hard that can be. Your insight is spot on with how they would have missed the experience of working it out between themselves. Nice.
Bleh. So, I'm human like everyone else and I'm having a crappy time right now.
H was here and just finished cutting the grass when I landed home. I'm not even sure how it happened but we ended up 'talking' a bit and it started to get kinda ugly. He's saying that he does't get enough time and maybe we should alternate weekends (I'm not really open to that as I do NOT want to go the whole weekend without seeing my babies - they're so young) and he says that I say I'm going to be flexible but I'm not really ... blah, blah, blah. Now I know that I am being very flexible and fair but I can't come at him with that ... and I'm not sure what to really say or do and I end up crying a bit. He still feels like 'making arrangements' and that sort of thing is 'asking permission' ... it comes out that on his B'day weekend he has plans on Sunday afternoon to go to a centennial celebration and storytelling in the afternoon. And I say well, family day doesn't have to be us sitting here staring at the walls ... we could take it on the road. Then he tells me that he was thinking of going to An's afterwards for a BBQ and a couple of beer (An is the old highschool friend and the best friend of OW).
Anyway, to make a long story short, he feels like he has to explain himself and ask permission, and I say that the only thing I have insecurity around is OW and I'm glad that he has refound some old friends. I tell him that Sunday family time is really important to me and especially to the kids, and if he would stop assuming I'm going to be unreasonable or inflexible and just state his new plans, and how he intends to replace family time all would be good (it's not asking permission to make arrangements and be considerate!). IE ... W, I've got plans to go to a get together on that Sunday, and An and the boyfriend have invited me up for a BBQ afterwards. Family day is important, so why don't we do it on Saturday so we don't miss out ....
After supper I also confess that when he says An, I hear OW and that's not fair because he does have a friendship with An that had nothing to do with OW, so I apologize for that. He says thanks.
I said that I assumed he would be going out on his B'day since it was a Sat and I'd be here with the kids and he said that as far as he knows there's nothing going on and that's his fault for not planning anything. I told him that I would love to take him out, but assumed he had plans and if he was open to it that it would be fun. I then told him that the party I was going to have for him (pre OW discovery and separation I was planning a party) was still an option, and if he was open to it, we could call his friends - old and new - and have a BBQ and a few drinks here on that weekend. I said that we could even do it Friday night instead of Saturday night so An and the boyfriend could come (she has her kids on Sat nights). He said he'd think about it. All in all, it could have gotten really ugly, we turned it around, even joked a bit, before he left and things were ok.
Problem is now I don't know what to do. I have two issues at hand ...
1. the Birthday (it's H's 35th) I originally assumed he would have plans on Sat night with friends and that I would be home with the kids so I had kinda planned on buying him a bottle of his favourite Scotch and delivering it (looking fine!) at 12:01 am on Saturday (ie midnight Friday night) to be the first person to wish him Happy Birthday. Then I figured the kids and I would offer to take him out to supper on Saturday and then he'd be off to hang out with friends ... now I don't know what to do, or if that was even a good idea in the first place! Arrrgg.
2. the weekend/kids thing. He's basically saying that he still doesn't feel like he's got enough freedom (makes it sound like I've got more which is bullchit - he just chooses to use his Sunday mornings golfing every week so he feels like he's got less free time). I am trying to give him what he needs and also meet my own needs so I'm thinking that instead of full alternating weekends, maybe we could share one, then he gets one, then share one, then I get one. That would give us two shared weekends, and one each with the kids (and one each full freedom) ... as long as we still agreed to keep family time that might work. Except that I am here with them on Wed and Thurs so on my weekend maybe he'd have to come do Thursday night or something or he'd go from Tuesday until Sunday without a night. Does that sound fair? How do I approach it so he feels respected and like I'm not making all the decisions still?
Then to top it off my sister was here after he left and b!tched about him a lot and I felt really defensive of both H and my positon. Arrrggg.
HELP ... need some input ....
Am currently fighting the urge to give him a call and chat about options ...
If I'm honest I think I'm a little freaked out because we just started these arrangements and already it seems like he's pulling farther away. It also seems like he's not working on his issues surrounding being afraid of my reactions, instead he's looking for a way to avoid having to deal with potential conflict which ultimately means he's not really ready to deal with his sh!t.
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
I hope that you didn't get the impression that MLC was a quick process. He likely [b]isn't[/i] going to be dealing with his [censored] anytime soon. From a logical point of view you'd think this was a no brainer...however if this is an MLC logical isn't anywhere nearby.
You try to apply logic to their situation and you cannot, that is why you work on you.
Real Life friends and family aren't going to understand him, and they certainly aren't going to understand you standing. Most of them think that you shouldn't hurt so they will tell you to move on or get a divorce...most of them would be doing exactly what you did...type in "save my marriage" or something and find themself here as well.
IF you called him what options would you present?
Quote:
I had kinda planned on buying him a bottle of his favourite Scotch and delivering it (looking fine!) at 12:01 am on Saturday (ie midnight Friday night) to be the first person to wish him Happy Birthday.
Sudden drop in surprises are a terrible idea with an MLCer. Bad idea, when there is an OM/OW involved. EA or otherwise.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I have been following along with your thread and I think you are doing really well. Far ahead of me at that time period but.....
I think you may be making yourself too available to your husband(looking fine @ 12:01 am)
I think he getting his cake and eating it too. He needs to miss you and I don't think he's getting that opportunity. I may be wrong but, if you do separate I think you will get the kids every other weekend. It is tough but it might be good for him to see what life would be like only seeing the kids every other weekend. It might give him a new perspective. I am by no means an expert and you know your husband better then anyone but I just thought I would give you some food for thought. Maybe Jack can comment.
Jack....speaking of food. I do watch Alton Brown. I like his show because it's not just a cooking show. He brings humor and a lot of info to it.
Beaches.......You can't beat Ocean City, Maryland. Crowded but you can't beat the atmosphere. Of course I am a little biased.
Jack ... I know it's not a quick process, and I'm reading and learning, I guess I just had myself convinced that after his 'rock bottom' conversation with me a couple of weeks ago that he was actually ready to do what he says he so desperately needs to do. And if I'm honest, he has started - he's sleeping better and working out, handling his own money and parenting solo 50% of the time. The OW/EA is supposedly not an issue anymore (he says that he can't have a relationship with her because the R with her made him a liar and a cheat and those are two of the things he despises most ... it was a longer conversaton than that but you get the idea. Now I do believe his intentions, but I don't necessarily believe that he's being 100% honest with himself about his motivations for claiming he can still be friends with her since she's one of the group - or maybe he is and it's me he's not being honest with. Really, I'm not trying to be naive, just to really evaluate the sitch as it is in front of me. I think this has been brewing in him for a long time and I think he's passed through some of the stages already ...
I was going to talk to him about the weekend options, and tell him that although I've been adamant about not wanting to go to full alternating weekends, I would consider some sort of compromise ...
Quote:
I'm thinking that instead of full alternating weekends, maybe we could share one, then he gets one, then share one, then I get one. That would give us two shared weekends, and one each with the kids (and one each full freedom) ... as long as we still agreed to keep family time
I'm also wondering if I should mention the party or just wait and see what he does?
Matt ... yeah, it's occurred to me too, but I'm a little stuck re the sex thing (I'm guessing that's what you're gettin at re availability). Both the MC and the DB coach said to not write it off but to not pressure him either. I wasn't going to come on to him, just a quick visit to drop off the present and let him know that I was thinking of him. I'm not afraid the OW would be here ... maybe that's naive Jack, but with the kids in the house and me staying only a 1/4 mile away at my parents ... and I feel like although an alien has taken over my H, I still know him and how he would justify certain things ... anyway, I could be wrong about it being over, and I could be wrong about her coming to the house - but I just don't think so.
Oh, and Matt ... technically we are separated - we're just sharing the house and moving in and out so the kids don't have to move. Currently our schedule is
Monday night - H Tuesday night - H Wed night - W Thurs night - W Friday night and Sat day - H Sat night and Sunday day - W Sunday late afternoon and eve - Family time and we stay in the house together
H drives the boys to daycare and I put D6 on the school bus (about 1/2 hour after H and the boys leave) so whichever parent has not stayed in the house the night before comes in the morning to make the routine work. The way we have it set up now we see each other and the kids everday, even if it's just for 15 mins in the morning.
For H this really seems to center around the control thing. He feels like he has had NONE. He's making control issues where there aren't any and making things worse by being afraid to just talk and state what he needs or wants ... I know it takes time to turn this stuff around, and 10-15 years of living with the old me vs. a couple of months with the new me ... well, obviously he doesn't trust me and my changes or even his own ability to adapt and maintain his own changes (and I'm not mind reading he's actually said this).
Bleh.
Ok, so to call or not to call ... let him know that I considered what he said and that I want to work on a compromise so he can get more of what he needs? Do I point out that no matter what arrangement we have, there is always a chance that something is going to come up on the 'wrong' weekend and we need to learn to compromise and communicate anyway?
What about the party? If he says yes do I call An and the boyfriend to invite them or let him do it?
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
I have been following along with your thread and I think you are doing really well. Far ahead of me at that time period but.....
I think you may be making yourself too available to your husband(looking fine @ 12:01 am)
I think he getting his cake and eating it too. He needs to miss you and I don't think he's getting that opportunity. I may be wrong but, if you do separate I think you will get the kids every other weekend. It is tough but it might be good for him to see what life would be like only seeing the kids every other weekend. It might give him a new perspective. I am by no means an expert and you know your husband better then anyone but I just thought I would give you some food for thought. Maybe Jack can comment.
Jack....speaking of food. I do watch Alton Brown. I like his show because it's not just a cooking show. He brings humor and a lot of info to it.
Beaches.......You can't beat Ocean City, Maryland. Crowded but you can't beat the atmosphere. Of course I am a little biased.
Matt
I too have been quietly following along with admiration. I have to agree with Matt...^
Much of this sounds like pursuing:
Quote:
I then told him that the party I was going to have for him (pre OW discovery and separation I was planning a party) was still an option, and if he was open to it, we could call his friends - old and new - and have a BBQ and a few drinks here on that weekend. I said that we could even do it Friday night instead of Saturday night so An and the boyfriend could come (she has her kids on Sat nights). He said he'd think about it. All in all, it could have gotten really ugly, we turned it around, even joked a bit, before he left and things were ok.
From my experience, MLCer's and even plain ol'WS's do not like plans of any sort. It might be better if you state what your plans are and invite him along. If you ask far in advance, be prepared to get a 'we'll see' or 'maybe'.
"If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!" 1st thread
