I posted this in another thread and was BLASTED by another member of your forums and I was not going to come back. However, I find myself with so many questions and thought I'd come back and try again. Here's what I posted:
Hi Everybody!
I'm new here. I read a few of the posts on page one here before realizing there were 5 pages! LOL So, needless to say, I didn't read all of the posts. However, it seems most of us are experiencing the same issues, or some variation of those issues.
I ran across this site last weekend and read SSM chapter 1 online. I went out yesterday and bought SSM, DR, and DB. I read chapter 1 of DR last night.
Like most of you, when I read chapter 1 of SSM, it was as though Michelle were actually living in our home hearing everything that goes on between my husband and myself! I was blown away!!!
I have been a basket case since last Friday. Husband and I have been together for 17 years, but married for 9 years, 11 months, and 2 weeks. We have a 15 year old son together, and I have a 24 year old son from a previous relationship. However, the 24 year old is basically "our" son.
My husband is a highly respected, very powerful, highly educated, wealthy attorney. He is 17 years older than me. I am a first year law student who is getting ready to take the first year law students exam (Baby Bar) on June 22. We live in California.
Over the past 10 years, our relationship has slowly deteriorated, but we still loved each other. He is very controlling - and I am no shrinking violet, myself. I am pretty independent and fight his controlling as much as I can. He does not believe in counseling of any kind. He is far too intellectual and smart for that crap - and besides ... he doesn't have any problems - I'm the crazy one with all the problems! (hint of sarcasm)
We've had our ups and downs like everybody, except that I can never talk to him about how I am feeling because every time I mention anything about our marriage problems, or my feelings, he threatens me with divorce. I keep a lot of things to myself in order to avoid a fight. As a result, I have so much built up anger and resentment, the manifestation of which is my lack of physical affection toward him.
So now (for years!) we've had the arguments where he wants sex all the time, and he wants me to initiate it from time to time, and I can't stand for him to touch me, and there's no way in hell I'm going to voluntarily touch him!
Of course, in my private thoughts, I know this is not fair to him, and I can't seem to figure out how to fix this. I am not a woman who has a low desire or no desire for sex. On the contrary, I am a highly sexual person. I just have no desire for sex with him!
I am very confused because I love him very much and actually enjoy his company. But because of my independent streak, I am also fine by myself or with my friends. I have a lot of very good friends, and I am involved in a lot of activities - plus I am in law school.
Last year we had a major argument (sex-related) and he threatened me with divorce (his usual MO). I was the one who wanted to leave at that time. I went out looking at apartments and small rental homes. I went to the four best family law lawyers in town and had consultations with them so that he would be conflicted out and would not be able to retain them. (I've worked in law firms as a paralegal for over 25 years, so I am familiar with the legal system).
He saw that I was serious about leaving and I suppose he actually gave half a crap about it, so he agreed to attend a counseling session with me - as long as I paid for it.
We went to the first session, each of us spoke briefly about what was bothering us, but we didn't get really in-depth. The counselor wanted to see each of us separately where we would be free to say whatever we wanted to say without the other present. We each made appointments. After those appointments, we came back together and the counselor gave us his assessment of what he gathered from all of the information provided to him. He then suggested a course of treatment. At that point my husband said we didn't need any further counseling, that we were "fixed" and that he was unwilling to pay a third-party, because he knows what needs to be done and he has the tools to fix our marriage without the help of a third-party! (WTH!!!)
We left that appointment in the same car. I sat quietly in the passenger seat, on the verge of just breaking down, but I held myself together. My husband held my hand and told me how much better things were going to be from that point forward because he was going to stop threatening me with divorce and he was going to be more open to what I had to say, etc., etc., etc.
For about a month, things were a little better, although I harbored this new resentment. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to start a fight. The fact that he shot down counseling really bothered me a lot. It bothers me to this day, because I know that if he were willing, it would have worked.
Last Thursday he wanted to have sex. He is not romantic at all. There is nothing romantic or sexy that leads up to sex. It's basically "come on honey, it's time to get in bed". I made some snide comment like "how romantic" or something to that effect, and he flipped out. He started yelling at me and threatened divorce again (nothing shocking there). I left the room and told him to "do whatever you have to do".
Friday morning I was preparing to leave for a bar review which I had paid for in advance. It was last weekend, and this coming weekend (I have to leave again tomorrow). It is out of town and requires a hotel stay for 2 nights each weekend. As I was getting my things together to leave for the weekend, my husband was moving his home office into his car.
When I returned Sunday night, he was gone, but left a note that he would be back with movers to retrieve his office furniture. He did that yeterday. He did come by on Tuesday to load some boxes into his car and we had a small discussion. I learned that he has leased a furnished condo for 6 months. He told me that he has a date this weekend and that he is going to start having sex with different women, and he suggested I start dating and having sex with different men as well. Of course, this turned me into an emotional, crying wreck.
Prior to this, he told the kids that he was going to be fair with me, that we were going to be well taken care of, and that our divorce would be amicable. However, he does not know that I have the password to his email, and that Monday night I read some emails in which he told some of his lawyer friends that I kicked him out of the house and that he was struggling to save his law practice and himself from financial ruin. He asked his friends for referrals to "good" divorce lawyers - not "hacks" who would "slit (my) throat" and "leave (me) bleeding to death". After reading this I was absolutely devastated.
One of the return emails contained the name of a lawyer who is "the absolute best", so Tuesday morning I called that lawyer first thing (8:00 am) to see about getting a consultation (before the husband does). This lawyer was out of our area, and I was told by his secretary that he does not practice in our court, so it would not behoove me to have a consultation with him. I told her that my husband would probably call to get a consultation. She told me that she would have to tell him the same thing. She assured me that neither of us would be able to retain this lawyer for a matter in our court. That was a relief.
I don't know what to believe anymore. He tells the kids that he will be more than fair, yet his emails suggest otherwise. It is really hard, but I am keeping this information to myself. I don't want to alert my husband to the fact that I have access to his private information.
The kids know, and they are very circumspect as well. My 15 year old is very wise beyond his age. These are both really great kids. I told both of them that I would either discuss what's going on, if they wanted to know, or that I would keep it to myself if they didn't want to know. It is not my intent to involve the kids in this mess. Both of them told me that they want to know because whatever happens affects all of us, and that they are 100% supportive of me.
The relationship the kids have with my husband is kind of strange. My older son (husband's step-son) loves my husband and appreciates all that he has done for him. However, because my husband is very rigid and stubborn, and not very understanding of his issues, my son has always favored me.
My younger son, I'm sure deep down he loves his father, but openly says he "hates him". My husband has been extremely hard on my son with regard to his education. The pressure has always been exceedingly great from day one to excel and succeed academically. Not that this is a bad thing. I agree, one should always strive for excellence. However, when my son's grades are less than stellar, he is threatened with being sent off to military school. This affects my son tremendously.
I am very hurt, and very confused. On the one hand, I love my husband and never wanted any of this! On the other, I value my freedom and don't really miss having him around to bother me for sex, or to fight and argue with and be threatened when I don't go along with the program.
Our agreement was that while I was in law school I would not work. So, I am unemployed and have no money. Prior to my decision to attemd law school I was laid off from a high paying job in a large law firm. I had rental properties and a lot of credit card debt (my own - separate from him. We have a prenup). I was fine while working - able to pay all of my own expenses, and made HUGE payments on my cards to get my debts paid off. After being laid off, I struggled until finally I just could not pay anymore of my debts.
Per our prenup, husband pays me a very small allowance which basically allowed me to get my hair and nails done, buy some shoes, or go out for Starbucks with my friends from time to time. It is a VERY small allowance. I began saving this money so that I could file bankruptcy. I needed a bankruptcy lawyer because my husband is not filing for bankruptcy, yet both of us are on title to the family home. We both wanted to make certain that our home would not be lost to bankruptcy and that my bankrupt status would not affect my husband in any way.
Now, bankruptcy is the last thing on my mind! If I file, I will just do it myself and if it affects him and the house, oh well. He can get a lawyer to fix that if he wants.
I have an appointment for next week with one of the family law lawyers I consulted with last year, just for the purpose of getting advice on how to protect myself. When my husband was here yesterday he told me that if he wanted to be a jerk, he could sell the house and keep all of the profits from the sale because all of the money that went into the house was his, and we have a prenup. But, he told me that we would sell the house and he would give me half of the profits so I would be able to buy a small place of my own.
With the "secret" knowledge I have from reading his emails, I don't know what to believe! This is why I need some really good legal advice. I am freaked out that I am going to be left with nothing. I've given this guy 17 years! I've given him the best years of my youth (I'm 17 years younger than him) and my beauty!
I am hurt and confused and not sure if I want to save the marriage or not. I waffle back and forth millions of times daily! And concentrating on my studies for the upcoming Baby Bar? Forget it!!! I have ZERO concentration. This relationship fiasco has consumed ALL of my thoughts!
I have told some of my friends about what's going on, and of course, like Michelle's book DR says - my friends, while supportive of me, only have my side of the story. Thus, it makes perfect sense why my friends are telling me to dump the creep and move on. They aren't the ones faced with this life-changing decision.
One of my male friends told me that if I feel my marriage is worth fighting for, I need to be the one to call my husband (I don't know where he moved to). I need to call him every day, be in his face every day and let him know that I'm fighting to save the marriage. He told me that I better do this before another woman enters the picture, because once that happens, and she's having sex with him, I might as well kiss my marriage goodbye.
My friend told me that I should suggest to husband that we have a proper date - one in which we get dressed up, go out for a nice dinner, and talk about anything and everything but NOT our marriage or anything even remotely connected to it. Basically, start over and become friends again. Like when we were first dating and getting to know each other. He told me to set my resentment aside and try to treat any dates we have as though we don't have any history together.
I know this is REALLY long! I apologize for that. I really needed to get this out of my system.
I have some questions ... should I call him? If so, what do I say? Should I suggest a date? When should I suggest it? How do I interact with husband right now without becoming emotional or angry? What if I go on a date with him and he wants sex? If I refuse him, the cycle starts all over again! If I give in and just have sex, he will think everything is just swell, and our problems will never be resolved and we will be back in this very situation yet again.
If we DO manage to save our marriage and get back together, it needs to be completely different because neither of us wants to live like this anymore. But I feel like the one doing all of the "relationship" work! Also, I don't want to do anything to piss him off because he has all of the money. I have no access to it. He is paying the bills, and paying for my law school now. He would not hesitate to cut me off financially at the slightest perceived misspoken word.
ANY help, advice, whatever - would be absolutely welcome from anybody here! I thank you in advance for reading this manuscript (LOL) and for offering your opinions, insights, etc.
Thanks again,
Katya
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#2007020 - 05/20/10 04:53 PM Re: Sex a side Issue? [Re: Katya] Katya New Member
Registered: 05/19/10 Posts: 3 PS - as crazy as this sounds, I left something out of my previous post!
My husband had a talk last week with my younger son in which he assured him we were having an amicable split, etc. My son asked him "Why can't you and mom just go to counseling and work it out?" My husband told my son "We did go to counseling 4 times and it didn't work!"
This is what we're dealing with.
Okay ... so here's an update. I called him. HUGE MISTAKE! He yelled at me, threatened me, and said THE cruelest, ugliest things to me, and told me NEVER to call him again. I am absolutely devastaed.
I had bar review this past weekend and I learned that while I was gone, husband came over, snooped around and took a few things from the house. He doesn't live here - he VOLUNTARILY left, and me and the kids are in possession of the house. I am PISSED!!! However, because I want to try to save this marriage, I am reluctant to say anything, or to have the locks changed and the garage door opener code changed. It will set him off and he will totally cut me off financially.
I flipped out this morning because I have an adult son who lives with me and my younger son. The adult son leaves dishes in the sink without rinsing them out and lets stuff dry in them like cement, which makes it almost impossible to clean the dishes. I've asked him numerous times to please rinse out the dishes. This morning I awoke to another dish with dried on food, and I had a major meltdown! My son argued with me "It's just a dish! Calm down!!! But I can't seem to pull myself together. My younger son is mad at me for spazzing out at the older one. Now we're ALL pissed off at each other!
What should I do about my husband coming over here while I'm gone? I can't monitor this place 24/7. Summer classes start next week for me, and I have the Baby Bar exam on June 22. I am a wreck!
If anybody (EXCEPT DaddyLongShanks)has any GOOD advice for me, I welcome it. I am down and I really don't need to be kicked in the teeth again.
I am so sorry to hear what you have been going through. I don't knw what DLShanks said to offend you but people here are honest and tell you want they think. Some good, some bad.
This is only my opinion from what I've read.
You are considerbly younger than H. Your H is in a high status position. Is there any truth to you being a trophy wife from him? You might want to check out to see if there has been anyone else. It sounds like your H is very, very controlling. Would you consider him a family man? If not then people in his position may feel there entitled to certain things, eg other women. From him saying that you should see and sleep with other people is a good indication he may be already doing so.
What you need to do is take care of yourself. Pass your bar exam and secure a job so you could be ready to support yourself.
Again this is just my opinion and perspective on what you have told us.
If this offends you, I am sorry. Just calling it as I see it.
Keep writing others will be by.
Bomb 8/09. Brief piecing 12/10. D-2/12 Two incredible kids D9,S6 Leading new life! “Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."
You pose a difficult proposition, how to save the marriage and retain the sexless status quo when he has told you that is a dealbreaker for him. You know much more about the law than I do, so I will avoid anything regarding that.
There is a program called Retrouvaille that leads couples through self-help for relationships. It does not involve therapists, counselors, or any third party sitting in on your discussions. You are taught in a group meeting how to discuss things on your own, and you are given questions to answer, but no one, other than the two of you, listens to your conversations. You can find out more about Retrouvaille on their website www.helpourmarriage.org. The program has saved thousands of marriages, including mine.
I have the same problem with my sons and the dirty dishes. The rule in our house is, when you put a dish in the sink, fill it with water. I keep a container filled with water in the sink for them to put their silverware in. Most of the time they cooperate. I don't ask them to rinse it, because that is very close to washing it, and that sounds like a lot of work to them.
You are going to have to control your temper, even if you are upset about the relationship with your H. Your sons don't deserve your anger.
Hi Mr. Bond, yes, I do want to save my marriage. I posted that in my last post.
Update ... I now have my husband's address. The realtor sent him a PDF of the lease agreement that he needs to sign and send back. Now - while he's over here ransacking my house, I should go over there and ransack his! Just kidding.
Okay, first things first. Protect yourself from his outbursts as best as possible. Remember that it isn't about you. It's all about him and he sees you as his worst possible enemy.
Were the two of you M before? Are you sure there's no OW right now? It sounds like his defensiveness and anger is hiding an OW in the background. Also the speed at which he is pushing for things, suggests this also.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
My husband has always been more of a family man, and has never in the past given me any reason to doubt his fidelity. Sure he's controlling, but has always been a good father (except for the controlling part) and a good husband and provider. Sounds like an oxymoron, huh?
He always told me I was his "dream girl", and quite honestly, I doubt he's going to get another woman who is 17 years his junior, unless he throws a pile of cash at her. The thing is, he's also kind of stingy, and LOVES his money.
He's completely aware of golddiggers (we live in an affluent area where golddigging is a way of life, so we see it all the time). I just don't see him throwing money at young women to get sex. He might, but these golddiggers around here aren't going to settle for a trivial sum and a few trinkets. I know him, and he's just not likely to part with a lot of money or "stuff" to get sex. So, I guess I have that to my advantage (if you can call it that).
Yes, I am probably a trophy wife because I am young and I am pretty. However, we've been together for so long that I'm probably not much of a "trophy" anymore. I'm probably more of what he would consider "clutter" now.
Hi Mr. Bond. I have to leave to pick up my son from school, so I'll be brief.
Yes, I was previously married for 7 years. Husband was previously married for less than a year. He and his wife had no children together. Apparently she was an alcoholic (I only know what he told me) and he "got rid of her as fast as he could".
I don't think there's another woman, but I could be wrong. He is out golfing every single day with his buddies. He's always been where he said he would be, and I could call him at any time and he would take my calls. He would call me and ask if we needed anything from the store before he came home, etc. his actions never suggested he had anybody else. But who knows - maybe he met somebody last minute! I just don't see it, but I'm also a complete basket case right now.
I'll be back in a little bit - gotta pick up the kid!
Have you ever met his ex? How many years were they apart before you and he went out?
Do you still have a friendly R with your ex?
I know you mentioned that you lost your desire for him because of past resentments. What were they?
To me it sounds like it comes down to control. Your H likes to be in control and so do you. Maybe because things are out of your control right now in your M, when your son doesn't do something you've asked him to do, that little switch inside you goes off and you get angry.
Also it sounds like your H has control issues as well. He's not getting the response he wants from you, so like his first M he is moving things along as quickly as possible. Seems like he may be repeating the same mistakes he did in his first M.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
