Maybe it is time to re-think your situation and strategy. Perhaps moving in a different direction is exactly what you need to do. If you look back on your past year and seen nothing but "cheeseless tunnels", it may be time to do a 180.
I have been separated for over a year, and we were at a complete stalemate until I gave W an ultimatum about the OM. If your W has been lying about the A, maybe it's time to face it and deal with it head on. Have you read "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson? That book completely changed my outlook on my W's affair. He says that the thing that is missing from a marriage when your wife (or husband) is having an affair is respect, and that is what you must re-gain from her if the marriage has any chance to survive. She must respect you. An affair, whether EA or PA, and lying about it, especially in counseling, shows a total lack of respect for you and the marriage.
I am not advising you to make any drastic decisions or make any changes in your sitch. This is just food for thought.
Robbie, I did give W an ultimatum, as described in the Dobson and Harley books (which we've both read). In fact, W wrote OM a "Harley letter". However, they continued with their contacts even after she sent him the letter. All the gory details of my situation are on other topic boards and can probably be found by searching my user name. We also had a face to face meeting with OM, his W, my W and myself! So, my W knows full well what the score is, and yet she persists in this behavior. But, as we all know, there's nothing that we can do to control our spouse's thoughts or actions. I'm making needed changes in my life and if she finds them appealing, all well and good. If she doesn't, the changes will serve me in good stead in the future. What else can I say or think? Sam
Most progress in DB is measured in babysteps. Babysteps are achieved by following a strategy, monitoring results, continuing it if it seems to be working and changing it if it doesn't. Of course, I'm just repeating what you already know.
If you give her an ultimatum and then back down from it, the ultimatum looses it's meaning and credibility. If you tell her that you will no longer tolerate a certain behavior, and she continues the behavior and you tolerate it...what message does that give her? I am dealing with this very same issue myself. I gave my W my own "Dobson Letter" which stated that I was done fighting for the marriage and that if she wanted to be my wife again, she needed to make some changes. She told me shortly afterwards that she wanted to work on the marriage, but 4 weeks later she is still living with the OM. So now I am backing off and detaching again, to show her that I meant what I said.
If what you are doing is working for you, then there is no need to change it. As you stated, there is nothing that we can do to change our spouse's behaviors or feelings. The only control that we have is over ourselves and how we respond to their behaviors and emotions.
I have talked with many DBers, some separated and some not. There are pros and cons to both situations. Detaching and distancing from their alien behaviors is much more difficult when you are living with them. However, showing them the changes and improvements that you are making in your life is more difficult when you are apart. Being separated, I envy those who have managed to keep themselves and their spouses under one roof. However, as in sitches like yours, I can see the problems it creates also.
If it's working Sam, stick it out. It's been a year for me also, and in the beginning, if someone had told me that our separation would last at least a year, I would have said they were crazy. I knew I couldn't go a year away from my wife. But now that things look a little better for me, I'm almost willing to put in another year. Almost. When we are in a good place, we tend to forget the pain and work it took to get there. It's human nature.
Keep up the good work...you never know when the tide will turn.
Quote: Being separated, I envy those who have managed to keep themselves and their spouses under one roof. However, as in sitches like yours, I can see the problems it creates also.
Robbie, First of all, I very much appreciate the time and thought that went into your post. Regarding the above quote, frankly, there are times (many, in fact) when I wished that we were physically separated, so that (a) I could more easily detach myself from the craziness that I witness, and (b) she could take up with OM full time, get the damned R out of her system and have him dump her (as he surely would, based on his history), thereby at least bringing some sort of resolution to that part of her MLC. With her living physically apart from OM, she can fantasize about him, glorify, idealize and magnify his good points, contrast them with my "obvious failings", and in such a contest, with me underfoot, I'm bound to finish second best.
On the other hand, as others on ths bb have pointed out, as long as she's still living here, this is a choice which she made, and both of us can take baby steps towards mending our R, whether conscious or unconsciously.
You say that if it's working, stick with it. I must honestly admit that, from a wide-angle view, yes, it does seem to be working. For example, after the absolute frigid atmosphere she's created the last few days, this evening she asked me to make us a drink so that we can sit together and tell each other about our day. Go figure! I've stopped trying to make sense of this stuff a long time ago. When I say that I'm calm and un-agitated in the face of this erratic behavior, I truly mean it; I hope this aspect of my DB'ing doesn't change. Thanks again. Sam
After spending a rather pleasant evening last night, she was very cold and distant from me this morning and told me that she was going to see our C by herself today,after which she had some "errands" to run. As I said before, all I can do is to stand by and watch her run her little drama. I will not question her about the C'ing session, nor about anything else she did today. Sam
Quote: "I've stopped trying to make sense of this stuff a long time ago. When I say that I'm calm and un-agitated in the face of this erratic behavior, I truly mean it; I hope this aspect of my DB'ing doesn't change"...."As I said before, all I can do is to stand by and watch her run her little drama. I will not question her about the C'ing session, nor about anything else she did today."
You are DBing very well; maintaining your sanity amidst all her "erratic behavior". I have been DBing since the end of July, and I still have a big problem with detachment and not letting my wife's actions affect me profoundly.
It's sometimes so exhausting to continue the rollercoaster ride. Sometimes you just want to scream to be let off. Sometimes you wonder if all of the anxiety and anguish is worth it, even if your WAW comes back to the marriage months or even years down the road. I struggle with it daily.
Keep up the good PMA, Sam. I seek that place of calm and serenity that you seem to have found. You give me hope. Thanks.
Thought I'd update things. I haven't posted anything lately, simply because everything's been basically status quo. Thankfully, I'm still maintaining my composure, am not anxious, don't pursue or snoop, have begun to do my own thing by spending time with friends (new and old), taking up my music again, giving more time and attention to my dtrs, and all that other good stuff.
W, however, is still floundering: taking all kinds of courses (finance for women, ceramics, achieving prosperity, calligraphy, etc.); attending C by herself (seems as tho I've been "fired" from the C sessions); coming and going as she pleases, speaking very little to me, no affectionate names, no touching, and certainly no sex!
Yet, she is constantly initiating things to do together, such as dinner, going to B'way plays, getting together with friends. Most of the time, I go along with these invites, but if I have something else penciled in, I will politely decline.
At times, it seems as tho we're making no progress. However, we are still under the same roof, share family responsibilities, do some things together -- it's just that we don't really have a M anymore. I've made my peace with the notion that it's really up to her now. I can't force, mold or massage her thoughts and actions. As I said before, I'll give it another year, but to keep my sanity, it's gonna have to be one day at a time.
Any input on how to jar things loose would be appreciated.
Hi Sam - sounds like we're doing the same kind of things..except my H filed for D and is not even sure that was a good idea. I felt the same way you did about "more of the same". I finally couldn't stand acting like I didn't care where he was or who he was with. This wasn't about him, it was about me and what the sitch did to me. I asked him to be honest about who he would be spending his late night evenings with. When he has scheduled a "coffee date" witht the OW, our children and I would not sit at home. We would go to my parents or a friends house for movie night and a sleep over. The kids love it. I'm much more relaxed now that I'm not sitting at home while he's out and I feel better.
He, on the other hand, does not like my new reaction. I've explained to him that this is not about him, it's about myself feeling better. I won't sit here anymore while he's out with her. If he's spending time out with friends, that's quite another thing.
I feel better. My H said he now respects my decision to make myself feel better. He also thinks that I've raised the bar and he needs to really think about what's important.
May not work exactly for you - but I couldn't stand myself any longer and feel better now that I've made this new boundary for myself.
Hi Sam - I dropped into your thread, as communication with OP was a big deal in my situation (now vastly improved). Sounds like your W is v confused - she is seeming cold and distant from you - but hasnt taken the step of leaving - despite the Big Speech.
Remember, confusion is good. Backing off and patience is good - but I also agree that having done the Dobson letter - you need to hold firm. Was v surprised that you said you had both read the book - maybe that is part of problem? She thinks you have applied a formula? I kept the book well hidden from H - seemed to me important he didnt think I was just doing something someone in a book told me to do!
She is floating: yes, fantasy A means their R is always perfect. But you are there, flesh and blood. Is it possible she may be 'missing' that you are not being rather more emphatic about your needs in the M? This isnt saying she has to do this or that to make you happy, but being clear about what your objectives are. as per Dobson.
I have to say, after I stated clearly to my H I would not be in a M with infidelity (& he instantly ended his A - tho not communicating with her at first) I asked myself whether I had ever actually stated the obvious, and said, I did not accept his adulterous behaviour as appropriate in our M.
And if I didnt state that, was it not perhaps understandable that he continued his A? Is it possible your W, in her confusion, actually isnt that clear about what YOU want, and thinks she can get her emotional stuff from the A, and the security and stability you offer. She has to realise the latter is dependent upon her full engagement with you for the former.
