What to do when their friends suggest leaving?

[CityGirl]

I really do feel that pressures on her that are really outside of my control were being transferred/redirected at me. Frankly, I find it odd that this is such a difficult concept for many here to understand.

I was thinking about this and I understand it just fine. I very, very much understand pressures that you cannot control being transferred over to you in a negative way. I can relate because I had the SAME experience in my marriage except the situation was not with friends. It was a different situation but the concept was the same. So, I could share it with you but it would deviate from "your" topic even though the fundamentals are the same or just keep my mouth shut.

A few years ago my H's mother got very sick very fast. It was literally out of the clear blue. Her heart began to fail, her kidneys began to lose function and she hardly had enough energy to move. She went from being a health, very active late 50 something woman to being a very, very ill woman. She saw every kind of dr. you can think of, had every diagnostic test you could think of and even travelled out of state to visit a highly regarded hospital. It was very scary. She was diagnosed with multiple myeloma although, for lack of a better word, it was an "iffy" diagnosis. My H totally shut down. I had NO clue what he was thinking or feeling. He shut me out, he shut his mom out and became a total nightmare to live with. He would go off the deep end for me leaving a light on or buying the wrong kind of french fries.

I had no clue what to do. I tried to talk to him, comfort him, support him and everything in between. Nothing worked and it made it all worse. His mom was going through hell with her health and she was sad her son had shut her out and made me the "go between". I felt like I was living with a walking time bomb (my H). So, while the "outside pressure" was not a friend in my case it was something I could not control just like you said BUT it was being directed to me in a very negative way.

It turned out my MIL had a *very* rare genetic kidney disease and once she began the proper course of treatment her health did improve at a slow and steady pace. Slowly my H began to return to "normal". I tried EVERYTHING as I mentioned above and eventually just "did nothing". By that I mean I just sort of went with the flow as best as I could and did my best to make my H's life as easy as possible. Now maybe that was the wrong way to handle it but I had tried everything I could think of and it was sort of my "last resort". It was a few YEARS later that my H came to me and really started talking about how he was feeling during that time and how he knows he was horrible to me.

So it's not the same as your situation but I can relate to bearing the brunt of "something" when that "something" is nothing you did but have to deal with.

[Bworl]

I tend to think that the general guidelines that most of us have found in either the DR or DB books are just that - guidelines.


My personal experience was that there was no "one size fits all" approach to trying to DB my marriage. That being said, I do still believe that the concepts in Michelle's books are generally useful for all in one form or another.


I don't do marital research and don't know anyone on here who does, so it would be quite strange for any of us to start reciting facts or "truths" that we can back up with cold, hard data. That makes most of the advice/counsel on this forum anecdotal in nature.


Just because one general idea might be that confronting "friends" who are offering advice harmful to the marriage is a bad idea, doesn't mean that there are not circumstances or ways in which it could be helpful. I'm not sure if you wanted validation for taking the approach you took, or something else, but I know that I have always felt that it was the individuals role to make those kinds of calls. As an outsider to your situation, the best I could ever do is read what you've done, what the response was, and offer you my two cents worth on what I think might be a reasonable next step.


For example, my ex almost immediately took up with a new, interesting group of "friends" when her batchitt crazy switch got flipped back in 2006. She began hanging out with a recently divrced woman and a chronic alcoholic who had been used, rode hard and hung up wet, if you know what I mean. Each of these women agreed with every complaint that my ex had. If you can believe it, each of these women even agreed when my ex made the decision to give up custody of her 14 year old son to move 500 miles away and live with her new soul mate.



Could I have made significant inroads by confronting these two women, or in some other way trying to convince my ex that these women did NOT have her best interests at heart? I doubt it, but who knows in the end. The fact is that I made the decision to leave these women out of my consideration. And further more, that was MY call to make.



You sound like a reasonably intelligent and thoughtful person. From reading your thread, it seems that you do take the time to THINK about what you are considering doing. If that's the case, why bother with those who offend you? As a complete outsider to you, I will agree with CG that you come across as confrontational in these matters with the ones you disagree with.


I've had my run ins with some on here as well. But you know what? Rob, Coach, Puppy, Gucci,...all those guys - and everyone else for that matter - have their opinions about what works and what doesn't. And all the rest of us have the right to agree or disagree with them. I know you asked some of them to leave, and in good taste they should hvae just done that.


I'm just not sure why you continue to write posts that show that humongous chip on your shoulder so well.


Let's talk about your sitch. Or let's talk about the issue that you started this thread for.


The best way to get to doing that would be to stop putting bait out for those you have had conflict with.



Blessings,

Bill

[Bummedout]

Hey CG,
I haven't lumped everyone together.

And I come across as "terribly defensive" because some of these folks were "terribly offensive." In actuality I'm not really defensive. I tried to make it clear what I was looking for. A few folks here decided that I had to play their game. When that didn't go so well, they went on the defensive . . .kinda sucked at it, so they just tucked tail.

Sadly, a number of otherwise more reasonable people followed them like puppies. You are one of the few exceptions.

As for "a majority" of folks assuming not attempting to mitigate damage caused by poor advice is best, that's not really an accurate assessment. More accurately, a few of the self -proclaimed experts have determined that, and quite incorrectly in my experience.

What I fund curious, and you do this too CG, inadvertent or not, is that some of the "experts" here repeatedly misrepresent and often outright distort my position. And I keep calling ya'll on it . . .and you keep doing it.

Here's the deal: Ya'll were dead wrong, and it worries me a bit that ya'll clearly have no intention of even acknowledging it.

Here is a "common sense" assessment of the intent of my thread.

Sometimes, there may very well BE "Nothing" we can do about poor advice from friends and relatives. This is likely a minority of the time. In the majority of situations though, even if not necessarily a large majority, there are probably "little things" we can do to help at least minimize the damage.

This observation really shouldn't be even remotely controversial . . .it's 100% pure common sense. The idea that there is "nothing we can about that" is . . . well . . . stupid, short-sighted, and naive.

But, people like Coach, Robx and a few others have been telling folks this and putting it out there like it's an absolute: "Ther is nothing you can do about it, so forget about it and move on to other things you have control over" is the general gist of it.

And THAT is BAD advice. And it truly is a shame that a few folks here absolutely butchered this thread in their unwarranted, imbicilic, ego-driven, petty attempts to 'beat me into their way of thinking.'

The reality is that a discussion about things we can do, say, etc. that might help minimise, even a little,t he substantial damage this causes to our efforts to save our marriage, could have been helpful.

Instead, many of ya'll keep wanting to assess my character, take petty jabs, accuse me of things you're guilty of yourselves, ignore me, etc.

It was a worthy topic, worthy of discussion, that could have been helpful . . . but ya'll turned it into an off topic battle.

I truly don't appreciate that, and again . . . . a number of the "regular posters" here should truly be ashamed of themselves.

To be honest CG, you keep doing the same crap, just wilth less vitriol. An example:

To me:
"What I would gently suggest to you is to dedicate yourself to making "small shifts" that create positive momentum. Self evaluation doesn't mean there is something fundamentally wrong with you, it means you have a desire to keep growing and improving as a person. I don't know a person in the world that can't benefit from self evaluation and self improvement."

I didn't ask for that. For one thing, I'm SO far out ahead of you on that. I've made "small shifts" . . .if you truly followed the thread you would know this. And there is nothing fundamentally wrong with me, I already know that. There is always room for improvement too, I'm also aware of that.

What does that have to do with the topic of this thread?
This is exactly what I'm talking about.

[CityGirl]

Good luck with everything!

I am confused as to why you gloss over the two experiences I shared with you (and yes, one was about friends) and continue to state I have veered off topic.

I also stand by my thought that 'small shifts' can be far more helpful that 'mitigation'.

Rob or Coach haven't posted to this thread in days. I have yet I hear the same thing over and over again about THEM in response to my posts. Clearly I am not being helpful to you so I will refrain from further comment!

[Bummedout]

Good luck with everything!

I am confused as to why you gloss over the two experiences I shared with you (and yes, one was about friends) and continue to state I have veered off topic.

Actually CG, no, one was not about friends.

I can relate because I had the SAME experience in my marriage except the situation was not with friends.

And I did read your post. And really, I felt for you in that, because you did experience the "Displaced animosity" I have talked about . . .but that has nothing really to do with dealing with friends giving bad advice.

I also stand by my thought that 'small shifts' can be far more helpful that 'mitigation'.

For the sake of argument, lets assume that's an absolute truth. (though it isn't)

That' would be all well and good, but that doesn't mean that mitigation of bad advice from friends AND "small shifts wouldn't be even more beneficial, than either alone.

Rob or Coach haven't posted to this thread in days. I have yet I hear the same thing over and over again about THEM in response to my posts.

Well, you brought it up in post number #2006893, and since my previous post was the first time I'd been back, I was addressing points you raided in your back to back posts.

Clearly I am not being helpful to you so I will refrain from further comment!

Well . . . that's your right. But again, aside from your giving me your insight and personal experience on displaced animosity, which I did appreciate, you were in fact giving me advice I neither asked for nor particularly wanted, since I'm doing quite well in that department on my own.

What I wanted was to hear about others experiences with trying to mitigate damage caused by bad advice being given our spouses by their friends, or family or even co-workers for that matter.

I think two people actually did that, and unfortunately, bantering about off topic 'helpful advice' I didn't need ,ask for, or particularly want, and defending my character from unwarranted and laughably inaccurate assertions has taken away from even that.

Heck, I might try a third time with this topic as a new thread, or on the other hand . . .I might just blow this joint because of the sanctimonious twits who like puppeteering people who are truly hurting, emotionally unstable, and in need, just to satisfy their own egos as they pretend to be experts.

Suggestion, CG:

When someone isn't looking for advice or neophite character assessment, but is looking for shared anecdotal personal experiences . . . . If you don't have a relevant anecdotal personal experience . . . . best to just bypass it and find someone who is emotionally confused enough to allow some of you to pull the strings that make ya feel so high and mighty.

I know . . . you didn't ask for this advice . . . . annoying, isn't it?

[MrBond]

BO,

Just an observation. Maybe you haven't gotten alot of responses because your request was so specific that alot of us haven't gone through what you're asking for. Like I never had an issue with my W's friends, they've been great.

Aside from the friend issue, was there any other experiences that you were looking for insights from?

[Bworl]

More specifically, by insisting on such a narrow scope for a thread, you've created a topic that is quite unusual for this board. Even in circumstances where some DO create a thread with a specific title, they are typically quite open to communication with others, even if it strays a bit from the original intent.

Frankly I think you are missing out on the opportunity to walk through a very difficult time with some allies by your side, even if they are of the cyber variety.

It seems just a tad possible to me that there were some pre-existing irritations regarding certain posters to your thread that, when realized on THIS thread, have totally overshadowed any positive purpose you hoped for it to serve.

I've found that even those who you think have comments least relative to your needs or situation are still capable of occasionally bringing a thought or idea that is useful.

The disintegration of a marriage is enough turmoil for most of us. THIS place should not be the same. And while I understand that you feel attacked by some people here, you should understand that to the outside observer you seem to have some issues that have caused conflict here as well. It does NOT need to be this way.

We're all in these messes together when we choose to interact with each other here. My hope is for every failing marriage on this board to be healed if possible. And if not, I hope those who have been devastated by a spouse turning their back on them can find the clarity and strength they need to press forward with their lives in a positive and productive way.

I've met few people here who I would classify as trolls. And while I have had some back and forth with robx in the past, I certainly would not classify him as one. He does have a particular bent - but so do we all. That is why the AUTHOR of the thread is ultimately the one who decides.

Coach/Greek are a fine couple who have been through a version of this marital mess. They have helped many people on here find balance and stability in the midst of the storm. You may not agree with their advice, you may not agree with them disagreeing with you, but to impune their well deserved reputation here does not do you much good.

Maybe a new thread would give others a chance to start fresh with you and your situation. Or maybe you've decided that you've moved beyond this place, or it simply doesn't fit your needs. In either case, I hope you can do something to lessen the tension on this or any future thread. There is great value in the back and forth that we have with one another, even to those who are simply watching and reading, not participating actively. You've brought an interesting topic to the table, one that I'm sure others have also wondered about. If we can get beyond the playground mentality, it actually could be helpful to others.


Blessings,

Bill

[Bummedout]

BO,

Just an observation. Maybe you haven't gotten alot of responses because your request was so specific that alot of us haven't gone through what you're asking for. Like I never had an issue with my W's friends, they've been great.

Aside from the friend issue, was there any other experiences that you were looking for insights from?

Oh yea, that's a good observation, actually. And I'd have been fine with fewer posts. I think a lot of folks just avoided the thread because of all the silly, off topic stuff.

I will say though that many folks probably think this is an issue in their troubles. As I mentioned . . .somewhere in this mess . . . I was pretty much unaware of it until well after my first divorce was final, only finding out in a chance encounter with my Exes Boss.

This time, I wasn't aware of it, but essentially, based on what happened in my past marriage breakdown, I kinda covered it right off the bat by asking my wife to NOT talk about it with her friend. A few minutes later, I did apologize and tell her that I wish she wouldn't, but I had no right to make that demand.

I gave her an excerpt from an article here about it. I didn't even know for certain she had talked to her friend until she told me the article did make sense and she'd seen what it discussed manifest itself.

As for all your wifes friends being great . . .be careful man. Ever known anyone, a friend, a co-worker, or whatever that acted all "buddy-buddy" with one of your other friends or coworkers, but would dis them to varying degrees when they weren't around? It's a mistake to not give a little consideration to 'what you see' might not actually be exactly what you're "getting" when you aren't around.

Not saying you're wrong, but don't discount it completely. And I'm not saying you have to try to "do anything" about it, even if ya found out one of her freinds "wasn't what she seemed"

I chose to "do something" and so far, things seem to be working out. And no, I don't even remotely claim that "nipping the friend issue in the bud" saved my marriage. For one thing, too soon to really declare that, but even if it has, that one action didn't save my marriage.

But it's only common sense to realize that if we can manage to minimise exposure to "relationship-negative advice" (I just made that term up) our spouses might be getting without completely alienating them . . . that ain't a bad thing.

As for other issues I was looking for insight on . . . well, yea, there probably are or would have been. After the way this went, not real likely I'm gonna open myself up to further snap judgments and ridiculous character analysis.

Might change my mind, but for now, things appear to be moving in a positive direction.

[Bummedout]

Hey BWORL,
I agree with your first sentence, heheh. It really shouldn't be unusual though, it's a valid topic about a situation that, depending on the personalities of the ones thinking of leaving and the friends they talk to . . . can have a fairly profound effect on the outcome. And to simply dismiss this reality out-of-hand is naive. I guess what I'm saying is this is NOT an unusual situation, and therefore should not be an unusual topic.

Further, it is a topic worthy of discussion as a stand-alone topic. But . . .and this is part of the problem . . .you seem to assume this is a very difficult time for me. While it was somewhat rattling, I got on it pretty quick. I learned my lesson on that a decade ago.

So . . . everyone wanted to treat me like I was like most folks here, and like I was when I first came to this board a decade ago . . .kind of a basket case.

This is NOT to insult people here who are having a really difficult time. But that's simply not me, at least not this time, and at least right now. Again, most folks don't come here until they are having serious problems, and have already done a bunch of things they shouldn't have in the attempts to save the marriage . . .just like I did last time around. But I learned from that experience . . .and folks here made NO allowance for the fact that I might not need all the support and advice and being "tough-loved" or whatever one wants to call it.

Frankly, some of the so-called "experts" here jumped the gun, made assumptions about my state of mind that were woefully off base. And yes, that ticked me off a bit, mainly because they wouldn't just back off.

Frankly, near as I can tell, I'm more of an expert than some of the folks here who are so used to being "board gurus" they can't even recognize when they got someones situation pegged dead wrong. Heck, they'll actually blame me for their bad call. Bizarre, really . . .and dangerous. These are people who take a "one solution fits all" view, even though they occasionally toss "every situation is different" out there. Just words though clearly. My situation IS a bit different, they didn't recognise it . . .and got pissy with me for telling them so.

To be honest . . .I'm kinda outa here. I got shoehorned incorrectly by the board clique and castigated because I didn't simply roll over. It IS a good stand-alone topic for discussion, and clearly "doing nothing about it" is NOT always in the best interest of saving a marriage. Sometimes, maybe. I might (but not likely) concede even most of the time that might be best. But it's stupid to think that "do nothing" is the catch-all best thing. And I got bullied here for asserting that, even was pretty much labeled a liar.
Whatever. I don't really care if some wannabe Doctor Laura Or Dr. Phil thinks I'm full of crap.

So . . .I actually hope maybe one of you, who hasn't already been bullied onto the bleachers will start a thread on this topic. Good luck to all of you man, I really mean that. I loved my Ex wife dearly, even though it "just ain't there" anymore. (Good thing, being remarried, heheh)

I know how indescribably painful it is. Took me probably four years after the D was final before I was truly "over it."

I can guarantee that more than one marriage that might otherwise have been saved has been sandbagged by a persistent and convincing friend. Doing nothing CAN be a fatal mistake sometimes, simple as that.

Some of you have been alright. And some I really should have talked to more, about their problems as well as mine. Unfortunately, I let myself get dragged into the Egotistical attempts at subordinating me. Anyway . . .again good luck! Hope someone starts this situationa as a new thread. My presence would just be disruptive right now.

Later!