Wow. Thanks for that. I know, I know, I know, there is SO much that points to an affair here BUT I would love to think there is even a glimmer of hope that there's not. You have presented a good scenario for that.
"the fact that she asked him if he wanted to meet you in front of you says that she isn't hiding anything (but that is just me)"
This has bothered me the whole time... well this and lots of other "positive" stuff. Look, back to what I was saying about perspective. I will never blame anyone for being overly positive towards me. I will also never take anything without several grains of salt. This happens to be a positive take on the sitch, which I appreciate but it all balances out. Thank you again.
Oh, and hey, I finally broke down and confided in a friend here so that really helped too since he knows me and has met my wife. His opinion is very similar to yours in terms of it being POSSIBLE that she's not cheating so much as just trying to establish a life outside the family.
Even IF there is no affair, I am still going to have to see if I can deal with the idea that I don't know these people. That's not to mention all the other things she's doing that fly in the face of how I perceive a married person to be. Hey, maybe I need to adjust that perception.
Trust is something I will have to really look hard at too, and whether I ever did start to trust her again after the affair. I suspect not.
I love the idea that came up earlier about trust and verify.
I think for that to happen, she will have to also learn to trust me and tell me the truth about this. IF, and that's a HUGE if, this is just her having fun with a GROUP of people, and as she says, the fact that there is at least one single guy in that group, then she needs to stop being deceptive and start being honest. She says any deception was based on her not trusting me to accept her going out without me. She says that this idea that there's a guy she's seeing is totally false.
She also has said that she blames herself for my feeling like I can't trust her based on the previous affair, and also for the current sitch because she was less than honest about who she was with, etc. She said she should have just been honest from the beginning.
If I somehow choose to exist in our R like it is, there would be SO much work to do. I am starting with me and will continue to make choices that help me live my life better.
Who knows. All I know is that I now have a totally kick-ass time planned with my kids and maybe we'll even squeeze in some time to shop for mum's day. Wish that was not Sunday but I won't mess with the kids enjoyment of that.
Yes, I understand that it MIGHT as well be snoop but not necessarily has to be. My W tends to be someone who wears her heart and thoughts on her sleeve. I think I know her fairly well and while I am always aware that one day I could wake up and realize that she's a totally different person than I thought, for now I'm going with "I know her". That means I can learn a LOT from simple observation. If I can refrain from constantly talking to her about all this, I can probably tell a lot more about what's going on.
I know she has "tells" in terms of lying, etc. I also know she's a VERY private person. That's been from day one, and has never changed. So the snooping game, for my particular sitch, whether there's anything to find or not, WILL do spectacular damage if uncovered.
Sure, I may be justified, and even may snoop but I will make that choice only when it's basically to confirm something my spidey sense is telling me is 99% already a fact. Otherwise, and I learned this the hard way, you end up with 1/2 facts and part of the story. The rest that my mind makes up is almost always much worse than reality. I have a really good imagination
Thanks again Jack. While I suppose this should be the hardest day in a long time (with W gone), it's been one of the best lately.
Oh, and she's managed to call 3 times, not to mention the 4 missed calls from when she tried to call during lunch. Quite a change. Normally I am lucky to get one call a day. Don't have a freaking clue what that means but it's better than usual.
I have to say sometimes I worry that you have your head up your ass (blissfully might I add) and the other 80% of the time you say something truely insightful like above and I realize that you do know what you talking about...
Then I remember that you also forgot : )
If you Trust but Verify...you really need to verify. And you cannot be afraid of what you find. If you trust but Verify...the spouse must also KNOW that you are going to do it, throwing a hissy fit is not a good sign.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Yea. I get all that Jack. At this point, we are kinda at an impasse. As Puppy appropriately pointed out, even if there is no affair (maybe she said that part) the fact that she seems so unwilling to do what she needs to do to reassure me about things is alarming.
She clearly is unwilling to do the things I have told her would go a LONG way to reassuring me that her version of the truth is actually that. I have asked her to meet these people, especially "the guy", asked her not to go hours without answering her phone and to stop carrying her phone around with her 24/7 as if there are texts coming in I may see. I have also asked that she not "decide" (meaning decide to actually tell me) that she's going out like 3 hours before she goes. She has admitted she knows before then but if she tells me, she'll have to spend the entire time between then and when she leaves hearing crap from me. Probably true.
She claims that the meeting them part may happen. Of course OM is famously on record as not wanting that. She has done much better with calling/answering texts or calls from me when she's out. She still has her phone with her a lot but not nearly as much. Then again, she seems to be good at deleting any record of his texting. I checked our phone records way back when and knew he texted... then there was nothing on her phone. My one instance of snoopoing.
In the end, and I hate to have spent so much time today typing about her and the sitch. It's not my focus today.
Again, we're at a place that is not easy to move forward or backward from. She has reasons/excuses for everything. She claims she is deceptive because I can be a controlling jerk (somewhat true). She has hidden his texts (admitted to that) because she knows no matter what he texts her, I will be pissed that he did it (who knows... dunno what he's texting). She uses that one a lot; no matter what I do or say, you will act as if something terrible is going on so I stopped trying. That's 1/2 accurate because really there was nothing to "try" about until the past couple months.
The biggest, blanket reason/excuse of all; She "needs" to have friends that she can socialize with and because of what damage I did to her circle of friends she had when we first were dating, she's scared to death that I will do the same thing to this group. Valid fear.
So we are at a complicated impasse. That's why I am going to be very pragmatic going forward. Again, choices. I will MAKE choices not have them made for me. I will choose to hug her when she comes home... or likely not. I will not simply keep doing what I always do because it's what's expected or comfortable or makes someone (her) else happy.
Jack, back in the day, I DID know what I was talking about and maybe someday soon I will again. Thanks for sticking with me through the 20% of the time I have my head up my arse. Hey, I do need someone to guide me since I can't see when like that
Yes, I understand that it MIGHT as well be snoop but not necessarily has to be. My W tends to be someone who wears her heart and thoughts on her sleeve. I think I know her fairly well and while I am always aware that one day I could wake up and realize that she's a totally different person than I thought, for now I'm going with "I know her". That means I can learn a LOT from simple observation. If I can refrain from constantly talking to her about all this, I can probably tell a lot more about what's going on.
GH,
Just throwing this out there randomly, as this thought JUST occurred to me:
I wonder if you wouldn't be better off with some regular system of intel, but one that you only checked, say, ONCE PER MONTH, and then TOTALLY BACK OFF OF HER on a day-to-day basis, than you are the way you're doing it now.
Cuz here's the thought that flashed to me as I read your post just now: I think that what looks to you like this "power of observation," looks to your wife like "OMG, he's CONSTANTLY watching and scrutinizing and questioning my every move! He's SMOTHERING ME!!!!
Ask the women on here, but I guaran-damn-tee you that they can pick up on this sort of a vibe, whereas us DAMs tend to think we're just being ohh-so-shrewd, kwim???
Just a thought, but I wonder if you wouldn't actually be LESS "snooping" if you did something regularly, but far less frequently.
I think the above might actually be better for HER, for the reasons I state.
I also think that you come across here as being SO worried about this stuff (and I'm not saying unjustifiably so), that maybe it'd be better for YOU, too. Because for some people, "snooping" isn't healthy, but for others, it can hardly be worse than what you're imagining in your worried state. And you strike me as one of those, just sayin'.
I am not a sunshine blower (ask around) but I do need to say that if Cori checked my cell phone for texts he often wouldn't find anything either...I have to erase them when they get to like 80 or something so I periodically erase for no other reason than I already read all the messages and I don't want it to get full
I understand that she cheated before and I understand that she should be open to things to make you feel more secure
I can tell you though that if I were her (and I don't have your history together so keep that in mind)
your questioning and desire to be a part of everypart of my life would make me mental and i bet I would start keeping things too...not because I was quilty but because I was tired of hearing your shite about it for forever...it's a lot easier to deal with for 3 hours than for a week
be sure that in wanted to keep your marriage you aren't killing your wife or yourself by suffication
