Long story short my H has had 4 infidelities in our M in the last 7 years. 3 EA/cell/texting (supposedly) and one pick up a female in a bar (no S, supposedly). I asked him not to come home after last D Day 7 weeks ago. He still has not sought IC. We have agreed to take time to think, not see other people, decide about the M. I have made it clear I won't be in a R with him unless he goes to IC. I'm getting impatient about him going. I'm wondering if anyone here can tell me what an ultimatum should be like if/when I decide to do one. I'm kind of thinking that I've already said my piece, so an ultimatum would just be me going dark and if he asks why then tell him it's b/c he hasn't gone to counseling.
I definitely wouldn't do an ultimatium unless I truly mean it. I thought the "dark" time I mentioned above might give me time to be sure about it.
Thoughts and advice appreciated. Thanks in advance.
M--14 years T--20 years, HS sweethearts dday #1--2002 EA dday #2--2005 bar sl*t dday #3/4--Feb 2010 texting/cell/physical/who knows what Shortly after found out he had been injecting steroids for 2 years
The best way I can answer that is that if you make it about HIM, they will come across as "demands" and being "controlling."
If you make them about YOU, and what YOU need, then they are "boundaries of personal integrity."
Example:
"I forbid you to see OW" = CONTROLLING
"I can't live in an open marriage" = BOUNDARY
"You need to check in with me every day, and give me your cellphone bill!" = CONTROLLING
"In order to feel safe in our reconciliation, considering your repeated affairs, I need to know that you're no longer talking or texting her by having the cellphone bill come to me for awhile" = BOUNDARY
"You can't talk to me that way!" = CONTROLLING
"I like ME too much to allow myself to be spoken to so disrespectfully. Please come back when you've calmed down, and we can talk further." = BOUNDARY
Make sense?
It's also HOW you say it. It should come across as something you HATE to have to even ASK for, and that you'll COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND if he doesn't feel she can do it, but hey -- this is what I need right now. Let me know."
Thanks for these examples! What would be the best way to say "I can't take you seriously and pursue our marriage/be in a relationship with you, unless you're in IC"? (I've already said it like this two months ago).
Here's what I thought of but I bet it can be improved: "I can't feel hopeful about our marriage unless we're both in IC." (I am.)
Thanks again
M--14 years T--20 years, HS sweethearts dday #1--2002 EA dday #2--2005 bar sl*t dday #3/4--Feb 2010 texting/cell/physical/who knows what Shortly after found out he had been injecting steroids for 2 years
BTW, I truly mean that I can't/won't pursue the marriage w/o my husbsnd being in IC. It's been 8 wks since D Day, and I'm starting to feel that my resentment about him NOT being in IC is starting to affect the time we do spend together. So this isn't an empty threat. I'm contemplating an increased dimness/darkness in the next few weeks if he doesn't go. He has said he understands that each week he doesn't go is jeopardizing our marriage more but that he wants to go "for him" when he's ready.
I think he's gotten in a comfortable groove b/c he still sees me enough, comes to the house, family functions etc. Not enough consequences of his NOT going. None that he realizes anyway, b/c my attitude and willingness are definitely affected.
Thanks
M--14 years T--20 years, HS sweethearts dday #1--2002 EA dday #2--2005 bar sl*t dday #3/4--Feb 2010 texting/cell/physical/who knows what Shortly after found out he had been injecting steroids for 2 years
You can't really FORCE someone to do individual counseling, but considering his serial infidelity in your marriage, I think it would be perfectly fair for you to say:
"Unless you get some help for your issues, I can't feel safe in this marriage. When you don't take my needs seriously, I feel like the other shoe is always going to drop. If you don't get some help, I'm going to need to do what I have to do in order to protect myself."
You might also consider prefacing a talk with him with something like:
"(Husband), this isn't going to be yet another in a series of talks about your need to get some help for your issues. Consider this the first in a series of ONE. Look, you're an adult, and I can't control you, but I need to be clear with you. The man that I choose to be married to WILL be faithful and monogamous with me. The man I choose to remain with WILL do what he reasonably can to seek help for anything that's causing him to not be emotionally healthy, especially where it affects his faithfulness and monogamy to ME. The man that I choose to remain married with WILL respect me, and treat me the way that I deserve to be treated, not just as his wife but as a fellow human being.
Whether or not that man is YOU, why that's completely up to you. Please take the weekend to think about this, and let me know by Monday whether or not you feel this man can be you."
You may want to check out Pearlharbor's thread (she's in Piecing now) for specific advice on how she did this. Hers is a perfect example of distinguishing between ULTIMATUMS (which don't work), and BOUNDARIES (which CAN).
I am seeing a lot of "individual counselling" references on this forum and I just want to make a quick reference to MWD here who does NOT reccomend people attend IC for couples challenges :
Taken from p 131 of DR : Marital therapy requires very different skills than doing individual therapy. Individual therapists usually help people identify and process feelings. They assist them in achieving personal goals. "how do you feel about that" is their mantra.
Couples therapists on the other hand, need to be skilled in helping people overcome the differences that naturally occur when two people live under the same roof. They need to know what makes a marriage tick. A therapist can be very skilled as an individual therapist and be clueless about helping couples change.
I am not dismissing PDT's advice here which is top notch. I just want to warn you the dangers you put yourself into by directing your spouse to go to an IC. They are NOT equipped to help with COUPLES problems... a Famliy Therapist/Couples Therapist is equippped with a very different skill set.
Don't ask the FT if they DO couples counselling, interview them on their approach to ensure your spouse sees someone who will be qualified... if they end up with the wrong FT or IC you could find thier resolve to continue thier affair is strenghtened by the session instead.
That's a great point, Allen, and I agree. I was only phrasing based on what AMG said HER goals were -- her "dealbreakers" -- without commenting on the validity or value of them.
I do think MC/FT is needed here, but I think it should be over-and-above her husband's IC. Whether he has sexual addiction or is merely a serial adulterer -- or both -- he needs to get to the root of why he makes the poor decisions he makes, irrespective of his marital interactions with AMG.
My thinking is if you go at it with a claim of "YOU have a probelm.. YOU need to see a shrink" it wont be accepted
Agreed. That's why I very intentionally didn't phrase it that way (ultimatum), but rather as what AMG needs in order to feel safe in the marriage again (boundary).
