One Month Since The Bottom Fell Out

[gws]

MORE BAD NEWS:

My wife tells me this morning that she wants to have separate parties for our twin boys' 2nd birthday -- one for her family and one for mine because she won't feel comfortable around my family. I think it's completely insane to suggest something like that. She said I could have my party at the house and she will order invites and a cake. Next week we have a conflict: Her nieces 2nd birthday and my niece's 1st birthday happening on the same day. She doesn't want me to attend her sister's party even though I agreed to see my niece on the following day. She is creating separation and hurting everyone involved -- esp. our kids. I swear I don't understand this reasoning. She's acting like a selfish depressed person...

[CABBR]

gws,

I wouldn't make too much of the verbal slips. My W still drops the occasional "honey" in conversation and we are going to trial in a few weeks.

Your situation sounds uncannily like mine before my W dropped the bomb.

Giving your W a bit of space, not pursuing and doing more to help around the house are all good things. Twin toddlers are a lot of work - no doubt about that. Do you get up at night to give the kids a bottle or put them back to sleep or does your W do it all? Do you cook meals? Do you let her go out and do something for herself so she has some down time from being Mommy?

One issue that may be worth pushing on is MC. Will your W consider MC together?

I'm not really sure what to say about the birthday party - why would she feel uncomfortable around your family?

How long have things been this way?

CABBR

[Lost_Dad]

Hello everyone.
On Valentine's Day the bottom fell out of my marriage with my wife of 7 years. We both had problems over the years with intimacy and expressing our needs to each other. We have always been great companions. We tried to get pregnant for 2 years and after 7 IVF cycles we were blessed with twin boys in 2008. The past two years have been somewhat overwhelming and stressful as we try to raise our boys. My wife and I had drifted apart emotionally over the years, but my feelings for her have never changed. On Valentine's Day she came out and said she "can't do it anymore," and "she doesn't love me anymore" and asked "Why do you love me?" I knew we had issues with communication but never thought it would come to this. She bottles all of her emotions up, and I am good at ignoring my feelings. We basically avoided the issues in favor of dealing with kids and life.
On one other occasion about a week or two later she said "She doesn't think her feelings will change" and she had mentioned that she thought we should start thinking about separating. She has been seeing a therapist since January and I started seeing her therapist separately on Feb. 15 (I have since switched to my own therapist). Her therapist told me how "shut down" my wife is and she has a hopeless feeling about our marriage. Personally, I feel she is also in a state of depression. The one time I tried to talk to her about it all the negative feelings came out again. So we have co-existed with our kids without addressing the issues. My W is very stubborn and she does not offer up her feelings easily. I have looked for any sign of hope in her behavior.
The Pros: We are both caring parents, so when our kids are awake and with us we are very communicative and interactive with each other (while respecting personal space). Someone on the outside probably wouldn't notice any issues.
She hasn't up and left; She hasn't forced the issue about separating; We do eat dinner together; she still does my laundry; I feel she still cares to some degree; She is never outwardly mean; we still look at each other and laugh when the kids do something funny.
The Cons: She is emotionally closed. She doesn't say goodbye to me in the morning, tho she usually says "Hi" when I get home. I offered to sleep in another room; After we eat dinner, she "checks out" and goes upstairs and doesn't make herself available to me. She clutches her feelings with both hands and is very hard to crack.
I have been putting myself through a major transformation via my mind, body and spirit. I am doing everyting I can to show her how much I am willing to change for the better. I never come home other than happy and supportive. I clean, I pick up, and I offer to help out in any way. She accepts my support or says nothing, probably because she feels like I am only doing it to win her back. My therapy has been very helpful and I feel like I am changing for the better, but it's so hard to deal with the 800 elephant in the room everytime we are together. We take our kids to the park and we try to do things as a family for them. I just don't know what else I can do to try and soften her guard and find a way in. The fact that we are still living together gives me a glimmer of hope, or I sometimes feel like she's giving me the silent treatment until I crack and give up. I hope her therapist makes her look at things from a differnt perspective. I will NOT leave my kids and would never grant her a divorce. She is just so unwilling to try anything at this point, and I feel like I am trying to earn her trust all over again. I love my wife and my kids more than anything, and I will stand by her no matter what. I don't drink, do drugs, I don't cheat and I have never been abusive in any way. We just failed to communicate our needs over time. I am willing to do whatever it takes to make sure I never have to say I am sorry again.
Is anyone else in the same position? Living with a "closed down" spouse? I know 4 weeks is not that long, since it took years for her to get into this hole, but I am starving emotionally and all I want to do is grab her and hug her and tell her I will make her that happiest person for the rest of my life.

Wow GWS, it sounds like we are living with the same W!
I've been at this for five months and made many mistakes in the beginning. I'll watch your thread and offer any insights that I can.
Later,
Lost_Dad

[idontunderstand]

Hang in there, GWS. You will get some great advice here.

I have only been DBing for about two months and have learned so much. My wife is still in the house and we have our good days and then she is the alien again for a while. You have to back off and not let her moods/actions affect your mood. I am always reminding myself this and sometimes backslide. It is a constant battle but you can and must do it. Let her be how she is right now. You work on the new you. Don't look for approval from her.

Even though it feels like you're trapped and running out of time, one of the most important things to work on right now is patience.

Hang in there. You are not alone!

[sandi2]

Your W wants to escape from you and the M. The best thing you can do is to back away and do nothing to pursue her. EVERYTHING you say or do will seem like some form of unhappiness to her. Even saying ILY is pressure to her. There are a lot of things that you should do or not do that could help your stitch. I'm sending a list that I hope will be of help.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through
conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do
things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just
say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an
argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

[gws]

Thanks for all the great feedback.

I am trying hard not to make something out of nothing -- positive or negative. But I am so hypersensitive right now that I notice everyting. Our emotional cold war has been going for about 5 weeks. We are both seeing separate therapists. All I can say is that she is protecting herself but we're still together. When we are with our boys we are great with each other. When the boys go to sleep, she recoils.
This weekend, with the great NY weather, was good. We spent time outside in our yard with our boys playing. I hung about 12 pictures our our boys (and a few of us) from a photo shoot we did a few months ago and I know she can't stop looking at them b/c they came out so nice. We usually respect each others space and there was a moment when she got down on the floor with me and played with our one-year-olds. She also fed me a few fries while I was washing dishes. Very small things, indeed, but things that make me think she might be a little more comfortable around me. I do as much as humanly possible to take care of housework and make sure I don't leave a wake behind me whatever I do in the kitchen or elsewhere. I always try to be first to deal with the kids during the overnight hours. Basically, I do as much as I can to take the pressure off of her. She still will sometime talk using "I" when talking about the future (as if she plans on being alone). She still has a hard time sounding sincere when I leave for work in the morning when I say goodbye. When she seems upset or angry I disappear. I give her as much space as I can and I do as much to remain engaged with our kids. During the day I submerge myself 100% in the kids. I will play with them for 8 straight hours if I must. I cherish every single moment. I think she will have a hard time maintaining her ice wall. I am happy to be with my family even though she gives little to nothing to me. I really wish I could tell her how much I love her or just grab her and kiss her, and that's the part that drives me nuts. Her behavior is not natural. I hope I can chip away. I am trying not to let her bully me and I feel like even when things are going along OK, something is lurking to destroy all my positive feelings. I focus on myself a lot and I have dropped a full pants size in 4 weeks. I just want my wife back and my family to get out of this rut. But she is not letting me in.

[gws]

Need some advice on how to handle a potential situation: This weekend my W's sister is having a birthday party for her twin daughters (2nd). My wife told me last week that she's "not sure" if she wants me to come. She hasn't told me yet whether or not she wants me there. The next day is my sister's daughter's 1st birthday. I already told her that I am going to take our kids to see her the following day whether or not she wants to come (she won't). If my W decides she doesn't want me there do I get upset? Do I act as if it doesn't bother me? Do I stand up to her and create tension? Do I just go along with it? Confused.

[sandi2]

What do you want to do about the birthday?

BTW,how did you handle the birthdays for the kids when she wanted separate parties?

[gws]

Sandi:

Nothing has been spoken yet. She seems a bit warmer to me and I feel the closer we get to this Saturday the more likely it is I will be going. However, she sees her therapist today so I am sure it will be a topic.
Personally, having thought about it a week. Going to her sister's party is not worth unneeded stress. I really don't care anymore about it. If she says she wants to go alone I will say, "OK, no problem," and be very matter-of-fact about it -- as if it's wouldn't bother me either way. Would I like to be there with my kids? Sure. But not at the risk of stressing her out about it.
BUT...I will be putting my foot down regarding our kids' 2nd birthday. If she suggests separate parties again, I will tell her that I am not throwing a party for OUR kids that we will both not be attending. I am not inviting my 3 siblings and their families so they can come over and be forced to deal with our issues because my wife isn't present. No way. I will be at whatever party she wants to throw. I'd rather keep any potential arguments over our family and not someone else's. Her sister's party is a few hours Saturday afternoon. Let her go alone with the boys if that's what she wants. Not gonna let it bother me.

Her behavior lately has been revealing more guilt on her part. Little things. For instance, last night we put the kids to bed and one of my son's took almost an hour to fall asleep. So, I ususally wait outside their room and when one of them starts making noise I go in to settle them down. Well, last night I started that process at about 7:25 pm and it went until about 8:30pm. All the while, she sat in the den watching her soaps while I took care of the kids. Then, after realizing that it was getting too late to eat, she went into the kitchen and heated up some leftovers for herself and ate while I was with the kids. We order out a lot, so it seemed like she was waiting for me until it got too late. Then, after she was done, she came upstairs and saw me outside the room and she walked up to me and I told her he was still awake. He fell asleep a few minutes later while she stood outside his door. So, I went down to the kitchen and opened the fridge to see what I was going to eat. She comes downstairs and starts making suggestions, "There are chicken breasts in there that I defrosted if you want"; "My mom sent over some eggplant if you want.." I am saying to myself, 'Why do you care what I eat?' Is that guilt good or bad?

[sandi2]

Is that guilt good or bad?

I don't see it as guilt at all. I don't think she felt one bit guilty.

I am going to be very plain with you okay? I tend to take in some of you younger men and talk to like a young brother...(okay, a son).....so I hope you'll look at it that way.

I see a man who wants to keep the peace in his home. You think by getting the peace you want that you have to do everything like the W wants. I could have said she's leading you around by the nose, but I know men don't like to hear those type of statements.....so I won't.

I think the majority of women will try at least once in their M to see if they can get away with running the show. Some women are more cleaver than some, and some are more overt than others.....but they all are going to try at least once IMHO.

I can't tell you the threads I've read where men get M and turn into some passive H and then can't understand why his W disrespects him. Do you think that is what might have happen to you?

You see, you didn't truly answer my question about what did "you" want to do about attending SIL's BD party Saturday. You said you would go for your kids, but you never said what you really wanted. And, while I'm on the subject of kids.....I appreciate the fact we have so many dads who care a lot for their children but I have to tell you....I have suspected that kids are used for "excuses" a lot of times when the dad is too passive in his ways and he doesn't want to be acused of being a wuss, so he says it's for the children's sake.

I am not telling you to act like a horse's rear to your W, but I am telling you to stand up to her and stop allowing her to wear the pants in this M. Women are never attractive when they try to be the man in the M. But, men look even worse if they go around in a dress. I didn't say that is what you are doing.....but neither do you want to get to that point.

It is little things that men start let slidding and first thing you know.....they don't have a say about anything. You are waiting for "her" to decide if you will attend the BD party Sat. You don't want it to be obvious, but that is exactly what you're doing. If you are close to her family and want to go, then go and enjoy yourself and stay busy socializing with everyone there and forget what W wants. If you really don't want to go, then have another appointment (GAL) and maybe call SIL and wish her happy BD. The point is to act like a man and don't be some little boy that is waiting around to be told what he can or can't do.

As long as you allow her to treat you like her son, she'll not respect you like a man......and she sure won't have sexual attraction for you. It is not the nature of a normal female to be sexually attracted to a man she treats like a child.