Together but still apart!!!!

[SMM23]

I am new to the community. I was reading for a couple weeks thinking that I did not need to write on here that my marriage was well on its way to recovery. Well I think I made a hasty judgment.

I have a WAW and she did it by letter on January 28, 2010. We have been together for a little over 20 years and married for 11 ½ years. We have had our ups and downs and in the last 5 years more downs. I have suffered from depression my whole life but really took hold of me in 2004 when after trying since we were married finally got pregnant. After a 3 months she lost the baby. It was at that point we detached from each other. I recognize it now but we did not then. Soon after we did get pregnant again and then we had a healthy baby boy. But I was not there very much during the pregnancy and after the birth. I was so depressed after losing the first baby I left my good paying job because the job was very stressful and I was having 6 anxiety attacks a day. (Long story) So now I was working at Wal-Mart, since no other good jobs were out there, just to pay some of the bills. So I was totally humiliated and depressed because I could not give her a baby or support the family or anything correctly. So the depression just kept taking its toll on our relationship and I dragged her down with me. Over the last year or two she had been writing different letters to tell me she was leaving. We went to marriage counseling in the Fall and nothing came of it. All she talked about was the little things like who cleans the dishes and whatever. So the counselor said I do not see any problems. He suggested that we both have one on one session to talk about stuff and I said I can say what I need in front of you so I do not need a separate session. She took that as though I did not want to work on things. So in her one on one they discussed how she was going to leave me. I thought that they were going to discuss what she could not say in front of me so that the C could bring it up. But we never went back.

She decided to wait until after the holidays to leave. So Jan. 28 was picked. When I got the letter I was devastated and shocked. I thought everything was OK, not great but OK. But then I took 2 days to think and I came to the realization that I needed to change my life. I talked to her Jan 30 and convinced her to come home. So day 1 I have been changing myself and becoming a better, happier person. It worked almost immediately. We hug every time we leave or come home and she is happier and I am happier. We talk on instant messenger everyday while we are at work. So I thought things were going pretty good. But I was still looking for more answers, I then found it in the DR book. It has been a month and all the changes I made were good for me and therefore good for us.

So everything feels good but she is still not wearing her wedding ring an she is in another room of the house. But I went off track and wanted to get closer and wanted to have relations and asked about the ring. Made all the mistakes I could. I asked if we could kiss more than just a peck in passing.

So today I get the “What makes you think I am back?” question. She says she does not want to give mixed signals that she is OK. I said that she is giving mixed signals because she has mixed emotions about getting back with me because she is afraid things will go back the way they were. She agreed and said that “I love you but I'm not in love with you.” That one stung. I know it talks about that in the book, but I am not done with the book. We are on the verge of things going good again and my pushing has made her question what is going on.

She thinks we are being fake. I told her that I am not faking and she said “but if it's not two sided it's not going to work” and that we have come a long way. Things sound good and then she has problems like this. Over the last month we both have talked a lot about our issues. Sometime to 2 and 3 in the morning. Things feel better and then I push the issues of sex and wearing her ring, and now she is not sure things will work. Please help….I love her and she admits that she loves me, just not in love. Where do I go from here? I miss her touch and her love and compassion. My problem is I want it now and that is just not possible. HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!

[SMM23]

Anybody out there have any suggestions or comments? I want to tread very lightly until I get a good plan together. I think things are getting better, but am I kidding myself?

[erynfaye]

Hello SMM23,
Welcome to the DB board! This is great place to get support, tips and suggestions for situations such as you have described. Your post was drawn to my attention just a moment ago and I have read through it briefly but will have to write a longer response once I am done with my morning clients. I did, however, want to post SOMETHING so that you felt heard and acknowledged in your situation. Talk to you soon!

[sandi2]

What are you doing about the depression now?

Things feel better and then I push the issues of sex and wearing her ring, and now she is not sure things will work.

If you realize it pushes her away,why do you pursue?

Here are some suggestions that might help living under the same roof, but you must stop pushing her about the sex b/c she doesn't have those feelings for you.....and lay off about the rings. She put up with you through two years of depression....so you should be grateful enough to have some patient.

Here you go:

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

[jasper67]

I would be wary of the R talk, pressuring and pursuit.

Also- some say whenever there is ILYBINILWY- there may be OM.

So keep that in your mind as well- it is not always the case, but often times this is script when there may be someone else.

If all the issues of the M are out on the table, why not work on the M?

You have already asked her so I wouldn't bother asking again. If you ask about OM, which I don't know if you should yet...if she says no, that doesn't mean anything.

I would let her initiate PT or hugs, I would not pursue her or follow her around.

[erynfaye]

SMM23 - oftentimes when there are only small embers of the relationship left, the temptation is to smoother the WAW in an attempt to show her how deeply you feel your love and commitment. This unfortunately usually backfires and extinguishes the remaining life in those embers. In implementing the DR strategies (which Sandi did a superb job listing), you give those embers air to breathe so that they can come back to life.

As you focus on backing off and giving your W space, also focus on GAL (getting a life). Addressing the depression, finding something you truly love to do (whether or not you are paid for it), picking up some new activities and hobbies and perhaps even taking another look at your grief for your lost child - these are just some suggestions (I am confident you can come up with more) to focus on becoming a better you.

In life, the crappy times are often the ones which wake us up to areas in our lives that we have long neglected. In a strange sort of way, they offer us opportunity to grow and become better and stronger in ways that a serene life cannot do.

Is there hope for your relationship? Absolutely. But most importantly, there is hope for you. Hope that you can become the man you want to be - the man you lost so long ago. All of us here cheer you on and look forward to hearing more from you.

[SMM23]

What are you doing about the depression now?

I have been in IC for about a year now. Before she left it was only marginaly helping. But since that day I have done a complete 180 on everything wrong with my life. She has even said so, unprovoked.

If you realize it pushes her away,why do you pursue?

Why if I loved my relationship before, did I do so much unintentionally to sabotage it with harmful actions? I did not mean to do it, but in my heart I knew it was wrong. So why did I let it get this far to begin with. Why did I not make these changes before and things would have been better years ago? I remember what it was like and at least our communication is there now and the tension is gone. So I get excited and forget that it has to be slow or I think I just lose my patience. SO counterproductive I know. I just want her back so badly and I want our relationship to be what it was.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

I am on IM at work all day, I need to be for communication with coworkers. So she gets on there everyday and we end up talking. So I should NOT send her things first? Won't that make her feel like I am ignoring her? We ususally are just talking about what happened today or with our son or whatever, not relationship things.

[SMM23]

I would be wary of the R talk, pressuring and pursuit.

We have not really talked much about the she and I of things. Most of the talking was to understand each others feelings. And something she said very early rang a bell and Sandi2 hit it also, I really listen to her now. Before I listened, but I did not look at her and let herr know what she was saying was important to me.

Also- some say whenever there is ILYBINILWY- there may be OM.

I was worried about that also at first. But it would not be possible for a PA but that does not rule out an EA. She has been hooked on that damn Facebook for the last year. I think that should be shut down. It has cause more problems that anything.
If all the issues of the M are out on the table, why not work on the M?

You have already asked her so I wouldn't bother asking again. If you ask about OM, which I don't know if you should yet...if she says no, that doesn't mean anything.

I would let her initiate PT or hugs, I would not pursue her or follow her around.

I do not follow her around, but if I come in and she is there I will give her a hug. Same as bed. She has on a few occasions come in and hugged me before bed. I am not sure what to do with this one. I told her that I missed that the first day and that I was going to give her a hug everyday from now on. So if I stop doing it now, aren't I shouwing that I am stopping the changes I made? So if I stop this little thing, aren't I saying that the other changes are going to revert to what our relationship was before and she is not going to want to stay for that, right?

[SMM23]

As you focus on backing off and giving your W space, also focus on GAL (getting a life). Addressing the depression, finding something you truly love to do (whether or not you are paid for it), picking up some new activities and hobbies and perhaps even taking another look at your grief for your lost child - these are just some suggestions (I am confident you can come up with more) to focus on becoming a better you.

Good advice! I really have started to change my entire way of looking at life and love and relationships. I have already read 3 new books and two were quite helpful. One was DR and the other was called "It's not all about you!" (Not positive on the title I will look later if it is important to anybody) My whole outlook is happier and more positive. When I finished the second book, I was in tears of happiness, becasue I finally "Got It!!!" I signed myself up to play soccer in the spring and started to do a lot of the things I stopped doing while trying to work on our relationship about a year ago.

In life, the crappy times are often the ones which wake us up to areas in our lives that we have long neglected. In a strange sort of way, they offer us opportunity to grow and become better and stronger in ways that a serene life cannot do.

I totally agree with this as well. Without the difficulty, the good part is never really relished!!!! Before I thought the world was just falling in on me, now I feel as if the world has given me a gift, a second chance to accept the problems and issues as a challenge to get better and enjoy the good that comes from it.

Is there hope for your relationship? Absolutely. But most importantly, there is hope for you. Hope that you can become the man you want to be - the man you lost so long ago. All of us here cheer you on and look forward to hearing more from you.

Thank you and Sandi2 and maynard2121 for you help and kind words. I feel like a new man now. Everyday I see more and more signs of life from the way I used to be. My family and friends and my W have all made positive comments on the changes I have made in my life. I feel like a new person and right now that is all that matters to me. For the first time, maybe forever, I have focus on what I want to do and the drive to get there. I am happy every day and even the problems seem easier to solve because I go at them with a differnt attitude. I feel better today than I did yesterday. I just keep working on me like you guys said and pray for the chance for my W and I to share this gift I have been given together. I feel better, and I want to be able to share this with her because in horrbile times she held our relationship together and me together. So it is only fair that she now share in the good times!!!! I hope she sees that and can come back to me completely so that she can enjoy the fruits of her labor and see how one person can really change someones life!!!!!

[SMM23]

I can say that the hardest part of all of this is not saying I Love You. With all of the changes I have made I feel like a new person. I have focus in my life and I want to share it with her. She went through the bad times and I hope that she can see that it is time for her to enjoy what could be the good times. She should be able to bask in the reward of her effort in keeping the marriage together in the hard times.