Returned WAW,she had PA, Struggling, Sandi2 help..

[Gynandtonix]

Hi to you all.
Hopefully you are all well, and thank you for asking about me.

Yes I have dropped off the planet.

But now I am a new man, with my head held up and I have regained my self confidence. Truely.

I wont go into my old sitch, the posts are there to read.

My WAW returned on the 5th of December.
She had been gone for almost 4 months.

She dropped the bomb that she had had a PA,(4 or 5 times they had sex), and that she deeply regretted it.
Lots of heart wrenching sobbing,and she told me that she did not know what to do or where to go. She believed that I would not have her back. Only that she had left the OM, and had told him that she wanted to have another go at our M.

I always believed that I would never tolerate and A, and that it would be the end of a M.
But when you are faced with the reality of your love still being alive in yourself and for mine and the kids greater good,The 'soap opera of an all consuming anger' response does not apply.

I then did the wrong things.

I pushed......

And this is where Sandi2 comes in....

When she first returned I kept making small touches and kisses to my W. At first she was responsive, but things just petered off....

I kept initiating R talk. Some of it quite deep....lots of tears ect.

I told her that I wanted to move on very quickly, and wanted to ML........

I wanted lots of physical contact.....

I wanted lots of reassureances.....

I kept saying 'ILY'.....

Silly, silly me.

After 2 months of this I realised that all I was doing was making her uncomfortable and pushing her out of the door.

We have found an excellent MC, who takes no bull sh@t and seems solution focused and makes us concentrate upon 'what works' and gets us to talk about when things were good and why.

She had been back for 2 months when I made a mistake and told her how upsetting it is as there are quite a few reminders about the OM around our home.
She got upset because I had not told her before and that we have had to replace some pretty expensive 'gifts' from him.

The OM....
She can not avoid having contact with him as they are on the same course at college.
This is hard for me, but I have to accept it.
If my W was to quit College, she would slowly go mad at home and make things worse.

He was still texting her a lot. but not now I believe.
Her phone is still on silent.

She told me she has not called him since she returned and has never replyied to a text.
I have chosen to belive her.
Thinking about him contacting her was slowly driving me mad and I have ended up on antidepressants. Now I dont focus on this at all.
I am more focused on ME and my boys.

Back to my W.....

Now as I said before, I have backed off for the month of Feb, and she has lightened up towards me.

I do not make physical contact.

No ILY's

No R talk.

Things have improved.

Now in 2 weeks there has been only 1 R talk - initiated by my W. I did the listening thing and validated her feelings. Who can argue with a feeling, I truely wanted to listen and learn....

Now for the second time I shall refer to Sandi2....

After having pulled back for 2 weeks I chose to return to these boards for advice.

I then returned to Sandi2's first post and just read on from there.
Sandi2 refers to a 'grieving period' She is correct in my opinion and I feel my W is going through this at the moment.

She rerfers to a 'no physical contact' period between her and her H. She is correct and I now see that whenever I touch her, all I do is remind her that she does not feel the same way to me.

She refered to a feeling of guilt and shame.
She is correct as my W has said the same, and I think also that my touching her again reminds her of that shame and guilt.

She refers to her feeling like a 'sister' to her H.

She feels empty and wonders if something was wrong with her because she had no feelings for her H as she used to feel.

She struggled with letting her OM go and tried hard not to contact him....
Same for my W I feel.

I could go on and on and on......

I have learnt that when my WAW returned I had a lot of 'I want..' .
Now I have only 'what works......keep doing it....'

I could have saved a lot of time if I had read her posts a little earlier, but I came to these conclusions on what to do by myself, and have had Sandi2 confirm my thoughts.

I think that Sandi2 is an Angel.
She took the trouble to post and vent, and sometimes some misguided abuse.
But she gives a valuable insight into a WAW's mind.

I think that her post should be available as a link on the main forum page.
I think that it would be a good thing if it were possible to read her posts from the start via a single link without showing any replies that she was given. This would allow people to follow her toughts as a single flow and may give more clarity to her changing mindset.

I have not read all of her posts, I am only upto where she puts her head on her H's shoulder and she feels guilty as he takes too much hope from this simple gesture.

I made a mistake by drifting away from these boards.

I will not make the same again.

I will use these boards to vent and possibly make a journal.

I will gladly accept any insights and 4 by 2's.
I may not agree with them all - but dont blame me for having my own mind.

But most of all I would like any insights from Sandi2.

Simply,

Thank you Sandi2 for your posts and insights. I regard you as an important friend. BIG HUG.


I have a lot going for me - some here have very little...

My W is at home.

We sleep in the same bed.

We talk all the time face-to-face.

The kids have a 'home' with both parents.

My W is trying to repair our R - but at her anoyingly slow pace...

She still cares for me in some ways.

We are attending MC...

But most of all,
I am not focused upon her actions as much and more upon me.

And things are improving......
Regards,
Gyn.[i][/i]

[mrbt]

. . . she puts her head on her H's shoulder and she feels guilty as he takes too much hope from this simple gesture.

Gyn, the above quote really struck me. This is exactly what is happening with my wife.

I wish we were as far long you and your wife - I hope you continue to make progress. Unfortunately, My wife is just a pens stroke away from making a divorce reality.

I will start digging into Sandi2's posts.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

The OM....
She can not avoid having contact with him as they are on the same course at college.
This is hard for me, but I have to accept it.
If my W was to quit College, she would slowly go mad at home and make things worse.

He was still texting her a lot. but not now I believe.
Her phone is still on silent.

She told me she has not called him since she returned and has never replyied to a text.
I have chosen to belive her.

. . .

I then returned to Sandi2's first post and just read on from there.
Sandi2 refers to a 'grieving period' She is correct in my opinion and I feel my W is going through this at the moment.

Gyn,

I only have a moment, so I'll get right to the point:

Yes, there is a grieving -- a "withdrawal" -- period that wayward spouses go thru when they end their affairs. "Hard withdrawal" usually lasts 2-3 weeks, and complete withdrawal can take from 6-18 months.

But here's the thing: EVERY TIME there is new contact (a text message read, but not replied to), then physiologically, those "love chemicals" in her brain are stimulated again, and the withdrawal "clock" in her head gets set back to 0:00 again.

You must separate the addict from the source of their addiction -- in this case, OM. Even if your wife doesn't respond to those text messages (and we don't know that that's even true), just RECEIVING them stimulates her, and then READING them (assuming she does) stimulates her more, and -- I'm sorry to say this -- her "grieving period" (withdrawal) STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN.

Finally, you say "I chose to believe her." Why? What has your wife done to EARN your trust?

Without 100% no-contact, and complete transparency with you, you're going to keep subjecting yourself (and, really, your wife) to "fits and starts," and it's going to be horrible for both of you.

Puppy

[Gynandtonix]

Hi, and thanks for your thoughts.

Puppy, I do agree with you.
I did already know this and have the choice to make;
Accept my W's offer to quit college and so avoid the OM. This would in the long term cause the problem of taking away one of her dreams and her opportunity to do something for herself. She would just sit at home and become more depressed. This would not improve our sitch.
Yes the OM would be gone - so far as I would know - but it would drive us both into an emotional blackhole.

Or I could decide to trust her a little.

If she wanted to continue the R with the OM, she could do it any way even if she quit college or not. I would not know, and a few months down the line she walks out again for good.

For us to have any chance I must trust her a little - or I would push her out the door.

So do I kick her out and end the R?
Stop her going to College and more than likely ruin our R and then into his arms.
Or trust her a little and monitor things.

I agree in the resetting of her clock.
I also agree with your direction of thought if I extrapolate a little - you are leading towards the thought that a little contact with the OM will grow again and resart the R.

This could happen in any circumstance.

At present she has given me no opportunity to doubt her. I can account for her time (well as much as I can without having her followed).
Yes her phone is on silent - in case he texted.
She has removed ALL reminders of him as it caused us both pain. If her phone rings I have doubts..... so if I dont know it is ringing....


But it would be very easy for her to go and get another mobile and use that for her contact - how would I know?


Am I wrong in seeking a direction for our R that allows the least chance of failure and the best chance of saving my M?

Again,
If she wanted to continue the R with the OM and then cake eat with me - she would do so. The only way I could stop this is to remove me from her equation.
But this would ensure the death of our R.

I am scared that she will return to the OM.
I am concerned that she will allow him to intergrate into her life again.

But what do I do, keep her under lock and key?

The R is in her hands.

My life is in my hands and I can only control my life not hers.

If she choses the OM, I will not stay around - I have already told her that I will not share her.

Regards,
Gyn.

[Kimmie Lee]

She IS cake-eating and has you walking on eggshells. And she is being incredibly disrespectful of YOUR feelings.

She has all sorts of excuses for not avoiding OM. Why is he not blocked from her phone? Why are the expensive gifts from OM so important to her?

Plus, why would anyone believe anything that a lying, cheating w would say?

Kick her @ss to the curb. You deserve a better w and the kids deserve a better role model for a "mother."

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Gyn,

You are carefully parsing and phrasing every one of your sentences in your post to me so as to try to answer your own questions the way you want me to answer them.

It's your choice. You can trust the pyromaniac with the matches "just a little, and monitor" the fire that it will cause. Or you can do everything you can to get rid of the matches and the kerosene.

Your post is so full of holes I hardly know where to start, so I'll just say two things -- one story, and one question.

The Story:

My wife was a SAHM for 20 years while she raised our four kids. Her dream was to become a certified personal trainer. She studied. She networked with other trainers. She crammed for her certification. She passed. She started at the bottom, and SLOWLY built up her clientele, and she was damned proud (and rightfully so) of the go she was making of it. Unfortunately, she also made the foolish decision to have an affair with another employee at the gym, and when she told me tearfully that she wanted to try and work on our marriage, and she would "do whatever it takes," the first thing on my list of four "dealbreakers" was that she had to quit her job.

IMMEDIATELY.

No two-week notice, just go in the next day, and resign, and ask that her clients be reassigned. I made the decision that our marriage was more important to me than her job, and that we needed to do AS MUCH AS WE COULD to minimize her contact with OM. I also told her I COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD if she didn't want to do this.

She did it -- to her credit. It tore her up, but that was two years ago, and by this past November she had completely built up her clientele and then some, and is now going out on her own to try to become even more profitable.

She we saved our marriage.

Your choice (and your wife's choice).

Now, my Question:

Why is your wife's cellphone on silent?

Food for thought (I hope).

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I am scared that she will return to the OM.
I am concerned that she will allow him to intergrate into her life again.

But what do I do, keep her under lock and key?

No, you don't. But you don't go all fatalistic and "what will happen, will happen," either.

You fight for your marriage.

You fight for your wife.

You MINIMIZE THE CHANCES that she will reignite her affair, and you do everything you can to protect your marriage from this PREDATOR.

Trust has to be EARNED. I see nothing in your wife's past behavior that justifies the blind faith you are having in her right now.

Puppy

[Gnosis]

Welcome back G&T and sorry to see you here.

Do you remember my post to you on Nov 9, 2009? This one here...

Gyn I don't post here very often and I've read your thread. I've held off offering you any advice because you have been getting stellar advice... unfortunately you either seem to forget it or ignore it.

My comments on this latest escapade: In my humble opinion, you're getting played. You're letting her have her cake and eat it. Every time you start withdrawing and enforcing a boundary she tugs on your strings and has you jumping about like a little puppy. Can you see that? Please tell me you can.

e.g. You told her no more hugging... she tells you what you want to hear and keep you waiting, without committing to breaking it off with OM.

This is the way I see your situation based on the information you have provided:

You're being set up for a big fall in two or three years time. She is looking into a future without you. She has taken up her studies to prepare herself for a life without you. Her intention is to continue stringing you along and having you take care of her financial needs while she gets her emotional and other needs taken care of by the OM. Assuming she knows it won't last with him, she is using both of you (and anyone else) to selfishly satisfy all her requirements until she gears herself up for a better life.

You haven't provided any information about the OM, besides the fact that he's married and has been booted out of his house. Is your wife perhaps the reason he has been "evicted" from the marital home? It sure sounds like it.

I hope that you re-read the advice people have given you. Take their advice, formulate a game plan and stick to it. Remember, every time you have backed off your wife runs toward you. THIS WORKS. Keep up the activities that WORK. Pursuing her doesn't, rejecting her does. Weird isn't it? ... or as @robx likes to call it: counter-intuitive.

I wish you the best G&T.

I know we're not supposed to mind read, but felt I needed to "back up" my statements above.

She told me that she wants to be back by Xmas.

WAW translator:
Xmas is holiday time. College is closed. I won't need OM to drive me around anymore, so I'll go home for a while to keep G&T happy until college opens again then be on my merry way.

She did not think that she would still be at her brothers and that she thought she would have been back by now.

Huh? Then where is the OM going to stay? Remember she BEGGED him no to leave her a few days ago.
WAW translator: Got to get G&T back in line.

She says she can see and likes the changes in me. She asked for me to be utterly truthful and asked me if I had sought legal advice. She seemed to be very worried that I had gotten legal advice.

WAW translator: Has G&T finally had enough of my crappy behavior? Is he going to get rid of me and ruin my future plans?

She gave me a big, long, strong hug when she left and held my hand.

WAW translator: Bingo! Mission accomplished. He's got his hopes up again.

In other words, without any commitment made on her part she has you back under her thumb. I'm truly sorry G&T but I don't see anything mentioned of where she intends to truly reconcile with you.

To get her back you're going to have to keep doing what works.

I see that you're hellbent on being a masochist and you thrive on the pain she inflicts on you. From what I have seen, you have learned NOTHING. I'm sorry to see that.

EDIT: Isn't the new semester/year starting up again soon? Well, I can see the affair flaring up again too when they are in daily contact with each other and in study groups together.

[luvless]

^ ouch!

[crushed_v95]

no kidding