quietly watching....need help

[gardengirl72]

I have been watching/reading posts for awhile...here is my sitch.

I have been married for 22 yrs (second for me, first for H). We have no children together. Four and a half years ago my H's ex- girlfriend called and asked if he would like to meet his daughter for the first time! She was 25 (she's 30 now).

I should probably give some background info....back in 1979 my H and his girlfriend became pregnant. When she told him, they were not together. He reacted badly...he tried to make amends, but she married someone else when she was 6 months pregnant.

H tried to contact her repeatedly before and after her marriage...he wanted to be a part of the baby's life. H hired an attorney, but was told because the X got married, the baby would automatically take the OM name and unless she ok'd a blood test (for paternity)... there wasn't anything he could do. Needless to say, he was devastated as were his parents.

H told me the story while we were dating...it had happened 8 yrs before...said there wasn't a day that went by that he didn't think about daughter (had found out X had a daughter through her stepdad...X moved from our town when she married, then from state...we never knew last name) When H asked me to marry him, he said for the first time in 8 yrs, days will go by without him thinking about his daughter and X. H thought he had moved on. We married. I thought it was a very good marriage...our friends would also say this.

Fast forward to 6/1995. My H answers the phone and it's his X...she asks if he would like meet to daughter. H says only for 25 yrs now!!! She proceded to tell him she didn't know how he would react to this, but she felt (NOW) that what she did all those years ago was wrong and she hoped he could forgive her. She wanted to talk to him first before she said something to her daughter. (they now live 40 minutes from us...and also had come back to town twice a year since they had left! I should also mention, at the time she called, she was separated from her H.)

My H had given up all hope of ever finding his daughter so he was willing to do whatever his X said. I saw right through her. She professed her undying love for him all these years, said her husband had been very controlling all these years so she didn't dare do anything against his wishes. (the reason why she didn't contact H sooner) I tried to explain to H she was playing him...he didn't see it.

Two months go by, still no meeting with daughter (X says she is still trying to arrange it) During this time I could 'feel' my husband slipping away...what I didn't know was he had been seeing X during these 2 months. When I confronted him, he said he wanted to leave me to be with her!! H said all those feelings from all those years ago came back...he didn't see she was playing him. He told me he would do WHATEVER IT TAKES to see daughter...still didn't see it!! And also said "I would never divorce you. I don't want to get married again" That way I would still have insurance benefits. (I took a 'lump sum buyout' from work in which I lost my ins benefits, but would be covered under his...we are retired from same company) I asked him to wait til he meets his daughter before doing anything...he does.

For the last 4 1/2 yrs, we have been on a roller coaster ride...H met his daughter and realized he didn't need X to be a part of her life...daughter was very open to meeting all her 'new' relatives. However, X has not given up! For the first few months after he meet his daughter I didn't say anything about "us"...doing the 'as if' without even knowing it. H agreed to see MC, however, she wasn't a very good one...we quit after about 4 visits. Finally I got up enough nerve to ask if he was staying....he said yes.

Things seemed good for about a year and half....few ups and downs...would find out he had talked to her...she was still asking him when he was going to be leaving....we would argue
(neither one of us likes confrontation...so if we don't talk about it, it goes away...NOT!!) Then a close friend of H died in a tragic car accident (both H and W died, left a 14 year old S) A month later H's daughter says she's pregnant...we were all so happy. Now X is calling H more talking about how our 'little girl' is having a baby. H gets sucked in again.

H tells me now since his friend died, 'life is too short to do things I don't want to'. Says he wants to move up north (we have a house there....we were BOTH going to retire to). He again tells me he wouldn't divorce me...if I wanted one I would have to do it. Says he loves me and would always love me, but, wasn't 'in love with me'! Says it's not the X, he just wants to be alone!!!

So we (he mostly) decides he would go stay up north until he decided what he wanted. The very next day he was helping a friend roof a house, and fell off. H was in the hospital for 9 days...(he now lives with chronic pain)

During the next year and a half things have been up and down...alot more down. We would 'have the talk about splitting' I would be upset, H would spend a few days up north, we would talk on the phone (not about us) mostly about what he was doing, things would calm down. X is still calling...he doesn't call her, but, always talks to her. (I see the cell bill every month) If I ask about her calling, he gets a little testy and can't give me an answer as to why he still talks to her. H says he wishes sometimes she never would have come back, or that all those years ago he wishes he would have had a chance to be together to see what would have happened. H truly thinks they would never have lasted. So I do not get why he still talks to her??!!

H has been drinking alot...he trys to stay away from the pain meds...unless is in severe pain. Within the last 3 months, he has become more depressed, but doesn't think he is.

Three weeks ago, we were up north, I was going home to take my dad to the Dr. and I told him (again) I couldn't 'do this' anymore. This time there were no tears, no yelling. I talked about the finances, which I had never done before. He was going to see a new physical therapist, so I wrote down all the info for him to make the appointment. (I usually take care of all dr. appointments, meds) All his injuries (fractures) have healed, but, he has muscle and tissue pain across his upper back...too painful to sleep in bed...this therapist can hopefully help him.

Before I left, he broke down and then I broke down too. I told him I miss the man I married so much...I feel like he died at the same time his friend did. I see him slipping further down into a hole...a lot of days he wouldn't shave, shower, or brush his teeth. Anymore, I don't know if he is happier when he talks to his X, and maybe that is what he needs. We talked a little more and then he said, 'maybe the dog and I will come home on Sat.' (this was on a Tues.) I said, 'WHY, not that I don't want you home, but, I don't want you to come home if you feel guilty or are like you are now. If you can come home the 'old' you, I would be happy.'

During the next 12 days, (he didn't come home that Sat.) when he would call I would be upbeat. He started having conversations with me instead of just talking about himself. He told me he was making it a point of shaving and brushing teeth twice a day. He was getting outside more.

During this time, my mother-in-law wrote a letter to my husband and the X. To my H she wrote about the unconditional love a parent has for their child no matter how old they are. She felt the tension and doesn't understand why, only that since the X came back she noticed a change in him. H used to call his parents atleast 3-4 times or more a week...now he maybe calls 1-2 every two weeks. H knows his parents do not like the X because of what she did and now wants everyone to forgive her.

To the X she a typed 3 page letter telling her exactly how she feels about her and no matter what she will never accept her into the family. She told her she remembers how heartbroken my H was when she left 30 years ago without so much as a phone call throughout the years....even when the daughter got married...in a city 40 minutes away!!

I was aware my mother-in-law was going to do this and in fact, encouraged it. I felt at this time H seemed more open to communicating than before because he was saying how he was trying. Any other time we would try to talk he would clam up and just sit there. I had told him how other people were coming to me and asking me what was going on with him. So at this time I felt if he heard from someone other than me H might listen.

As I said before, we were talking and he seemed to really be trying to change. The night before he came home he left a message saying how he was trying to get better and he knows he doesn't say he loves me like he should, but, he does. (I had mentioned when I left, I missed saying 'I love you'...I had stopped saying it when I would hang up because he would just say, 'yup')

He got home and things seemed fine...he was acting like he was trying...he didn't seem depressed. I went with him to the new therapist...he had asked if I would go with him. We went to see a movie...he helped with dishes...he hadn't done that for awhile. But, this whole time I'm thinking, is this for real or is it just like before, if we don't talk about it things seem fine...He goes back to talking to X. So, I think he might be willing to talk about the letters his mom sent.

Big mistake!! His third night home...he got home from ice fishing...I had just put supper in the oven, so I knew we had awhile before we were going to eat. H went to make a drink (he drinks whiskey on the rocks) I asked if he got the letters. H went from a good mood to a bad one. Took me completely by surprise!! Of course, I couldn't let it go, I wanted to know how he felt about them. He said the one to his X was between his mom and his X. Of course, X called him as soon as X read hers and told H his mom didn't have it right. I said, 'that is why I would like to talk to X myself to see how X justifies taking your child and your parents grandchild and not telling ANYONE where they were!!' H just said X would never talk to me. And I just said, 'what does that tell you?' I asked if he had been talking to X. H said she had been calling, but, mostly he let it go to his voice mail. (I have since seen the cell phone bill and the calls were alot less) Then H clammed up. I tried to get him to talk and then he just said, 'I'm done. After this week I'll be going up north to live you can stay here...you can keep whatever you want; there are just a few things I want.'

I just sat there...shocked! (of course, during this time he kept pouring the whiskey) Sad to say, the whiskey actually mellows him...so I don't mind when he drinks, but, I know it is NOT good for his health. So we ate and slowly he mellowed out, I didn't argue just agreed with whatever H said. Later H asked if I would come and wach TV with him...I did to keep peace. During this time H kept saying the dog should stay with me. (H got me the dog for my birthday 1 year ago...he was the one that wanted the dog, I didn't...we had one we had to put down...it was one of the hardest things I ever did..she was a great dog and I felt we would never be able to find another dog as good...however, this dog is a great dog too! But, still I didn't want to be tied down) So, I told him I didn't think I would take her, he could have her. He became upset again! I went to bed...he slept in the recliner, as usual.

The next morning, I was going to a Dr. appointment and decided to not bring up the day before, I went to tell H I was leaving. H asked if I would take the dog with me. I said sure, 'what are you going to do?' H said very angrily, "I'm going to live up north!" WOW...I thought this was going to blow over again because of how H was working on himself. I asked 'why?' H just said, 'Did you forget last night!!' I said, 'no' H said 'well then...' got up and left the room! I had plans later in the week, when I was going to be gone all day, so I said I wouldn't be able to keep the dog. H again got upset...she's your dog! (truth be told, she is more his dog and really likes it up north....I think maybe this is a guilt/ control isssue) I said, 'I didn't understand why he was so angry.' He walked away...and I left.

When I got home both H and the dog were gone, this was on 2/10/10. He has said many times, 'I just want to be alone.' This last time he said, 'I know you and my mom think it is all about the X, it isn't. Don't you think I know she's a fruit cake?!! I just want to be up north by myself.'

I decided not to call him, and give him his space. H had an appointment with PT on the 16th and we had an appointment to get our taxes done on the 18th, so I figured he would be home for that.

I didn't hear from him at all. The day after his PT appointment, I called to see if the PT helped...it went to his voice mail. (the appointment is 2 hours south from where he is at and he had made it for 7:00 a.m.) The X lives in the same town as PT appointment. I left a message saying, 'I hope you got some relief from PT because I know how much you want this to help. Then I told H I was a little confussed. I thought by H telling me H was working on getting better, and by all the things H said, that H was doing it to help the relationship. Did I get that wrong? (H had never said the marriage is over...always says he needs time to get better, but never seemed to try until this time) I ended the message telling him I missed him and I loved him.'

Still no phone call. The day before our taxes were to be done, I found tax receipts in the mail box. I was so angry. H had put them in there, but didn't come up to the house to talk!! (H had brought them from up north) I called and told him to call me!!!

Two hours later H returned my call. Of course, I thought I could to talk to him, but he was angry. I asked him why he left the receipts in the mail box...said because he went back up north and was not coming back....I said, 'we have always both gone to have our taxes done. Why didn't you come up to the house?' H said, 'I guess if I wanted to come to the house I would have!' I asked if he had got my message. 'Yeah!!' I said, 'and??' H said, 'what?' (it's like pulling teeth trying to get H to talk!!!) I said, 'did I have it wrong...were you not trying for the relationship?' H said, 'I guess.' I said, 'I guess what? You are or you aren't working on it?' H said, 'I GUESS I'M NOT!!!!' I couldn't leave it at that either. So I asked him if he didn't want to be married any more. H said, 'I GUESS NOT!!!'

H again said if I wanted a divorce that was up to me, but he felt we should leave it this way. Of course, the more I think about this the more I think H is saying that because it is to his advantage....you see we have quite a bit of property up north (240 acres and a house) and 28 acres with our other house here. I, also, have no income (pension) as I took the lump-sum-buyout. I, therefore rely on H's pension, which has been fine until now, as we own everything.

I am sorry this is so long...after writing this out, I see I probably should not have brought up the letters and maybe things would have stayed going in the right direction.

I don't know if I'm dealing with a walk away husband, the other woman (he says not), MLC, depresion, or all of them.

I find myself, at the same time, wanting to keep my marriage and to move on. I know I need help with this. I hate how I feel...always sick to my stomach. I know I shouldn't give him a call, but, I wonder if by my not calling, is it making it worse?...as in H thinking I've given up??

I would GREATLY appreciate any comments and support I can get.

Thank you so much, Pam

[Gardener]

gardengirl,
Well, Gardener just had to respond to gardengirl even if to just say hello!

You are in the right place. You might also want to go over and read up on the MLC (midlife crisis) forum because it seems like there's a lot of that going on here.

I say seems because, to be honest, I read about 1/3 of your post and skimmed the remaining 2/3. I've been dealing with some serious insomnia and just posted about 4 times, each time saying, "Okay, last one, I gotta get to bed."

And then I see "gardengirl"? Well, that's gotta be one more post! (even if not much of one).

But it can be awful putting that first post "out there" and minutes start to feel like hours until a reply.

Read, Read a lot of Newcomer posts (and MLC) and see if any particularly resonate with you or resemble aspects of your sitch.
Read the Divorce Remedy book. Read "Quotes Found on Divorce Busting II" near the top of this Newcomers list.

Others who are wiser (and less tired than I am) will be along shortly. This is a great community as you probably already know from lurking.

I'll come back and read it all tomorrow.

[Number 8]

Wow. This is quite a story. I am so sorry for your pain and heartache. I can't imagine how difficult things have been for you, but you seem to have remained strong and determined.

I do think your H has some serious depression issues, but it does no good for YOU to point them out, suggest help, or try to provide solutions. He won't and can't hear them. He's in a dark, hopeless place right now.

I understand the sick feeling. I've had that for going on two months now (since my H and I separated). Sometimes my whole upper body has felt like it's on fire. [Of course, now I have an ulcer, so there really WERE some legitimate burning sensations.]

I think no contact for now is a good thing. It's excruciating at times, but you need some distance so that you can detach.

How are you helping yourself? Are you reading books on the subject? Have you opted to see a counselor? Do you have a good, trustworthy friend on whom you can lean (who won't judge and tell you to ditch him/move on)?

Please keep posting here and sharing your thoughts/feelings. You'll get some excellent support and insights from this community. Hang in there, gg.

[gardengirl72]

Thank you Gardener and Number 8 for your fast replies.

After I did my post, I made myself leave the computer and do other things...wasn't quite sure how this worked...decided to check before I went to bed.

I have been seeing a counselor, but, do not see her again till the 18th of March...she is on vacation. My sister has been a 'god send'. I talk to her everyday, sometimes 10 times a day!! She encouraged me to do this. She will still be there to listen to my love/hate ramblings without judging me, but, I feel the people here have a better insight as to what I need to do and how to do it.

Funny thing how the mind/heart works...I know what I should do, but knowing and doing are two different things!

Thanks...Pam

[gardengirl72]

*After looking at my original post, the X first contacted H on....6/2005 - not - 6/1995....I guess it just seems that long ago!! =)

~Thanks~pam

[Number 8]

My pleasure, gg. I know what it's like to do your first post and wait. And wait. And wait.

I'm glad you have a C and your wonderful sister to lean on.

You're right about knowing and doing! What seems like it should be easy is the hardest thing to think of doing.

Check out this link if you want to research more into midlife crises. Take some time to poke around these and see if you think anything fits your situation.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...e=1&fpart=1

Get some rest, and take care of yourself.

[gardengirl72]

Thanks N8....I will do that

[erynfaye]

Dear gg,
I echo the voices of those before me when I say welcome. Thank you for having the courage to share your story in such detail - sometimes writing the sequence down can bring a bit of clarity. As you take steps in this new season of your relationship (meaning, your husband is living up north for an indefinite amount of time), I would encourage you to to use the time to invest in yourself. I see that you are retired, so find activities which fill your time. This will not only expand your personal horizons, but it will also help ward off the temptation to be myopic about your relationship. If you haven't picked up the book, Divorce Remedy, this could be a great place to start - it is packed with helpful ideas/suggestions/revelations which you will no doubt find helpful. Finally, be kind to yourself about bringing up the letters. To quote the bard Billy Joel, "we learn more from our accidents than anything we could learn in school." The important thing is that you dust yourself off and get back up. And please do post more as you continue your journey!

[MarkG]

Wow.... I'm going to lean on MLC triggered by depression. I have no idea what to make of the OW situation, it could be either way. The 1 thing we do know for sure is pursuing makes things worse. The best thing you can do is not chase him for answers or attention. Call to talk business, see what you can get him to talk about, but if he's in a bad mood or gets angry cut it short. if you think he's going to get angry cut it short before he even does. It sounds like he's got a lot of physical and mental healing to do before he can possibly work on a R.

[gardengirl72]

I did read the article on MLC. I find some of the things I read about MLC to be true to what H is doing. I have not yet got the DB book.


This has been a very busy week for me....which is a good thing!! Tomorrow, I will be watching my nephew wrestle at state, and he will hopefully move on to finals on Friday and Saurday. H is choosing not to go (for me??) claims it would be too hard on me to explain to people why he wouldn't be sitting with me! I told him it didn't matter if he sat with me or not.

It is very hard for me to understand why he won't be there for our nephew...nephew is the 14 year old (now 16) who lost both parents in car accident a little over 2 years ago.(my original post....H is still having hard time dealing with death of friend.) My sister and brother-in-law became his legal guardians.

At the time of our friends death (12-29-06), they were very active in wrestling...going to tournaments in the state and out of the state. Our nephew chose to continue (he knew his parents would have wanted that) and ended up taking State first place in three different forms of wrestling that year! He made it to state last year too as a freshman. We were there for that.
H said he would call and talk to him before he goes....it's still not the same as being there.

H called this morning...no mention of going to state tournament. He said he will be coming to town (dr. appointment) early next week. Said he will 'stop by' to switch trucks and pick up a few things. Mostly talked about himself, H seemed 'fine'. I didn't bring up anything.

I find doing the 'as if' is helping HIM, as he can go about his life without having to bother with anything...which is what HE wants. Does this still work if H doesn't have to stay at the house??....he's up north where WE were going to retire to...and I'm here....

I need help/reassurance on how to act when H comes here...I don't want to make things worse...I'm afraid if I'm too
'stand-offish' he will think I have given up....this seems to be the game we play.....HELP!!

I also read somewhere in here you should contact family and friends and let them know what is going on.....most all family knows. I know friends will be wondering because he is telling people I don't want to be up north....which is not the case!

Thanks, gg