First meeting w/ WAW, I'm shaky need encouragement

[SweetCyborg]

I'll try to be brief. Sad to have to be here, but SO glad I found DB book and site! Ssems like a helpful loving community!

We've been together 16 years, married for 12. We had a romantic vibrant passionate early romance in NYC, with many friends, dinner parties, travel, good sex. The engagement was triumphant in scale and creativity, and we had and a nice, unique, lovely wedding.

We both worked in the music biz for big companies, and ultimately started a popular website where we reviewed restaurants and were featured in Entrepreneur and NY Times.

I was laid off from a big multimedia company, and my wife wanted to go back to grad school. I LOVED NYC, but acquiesced to leave for a while b/c I loved her.

After grad school we ended up staying in ths midwest town (which made me sad but I was dealing with not going back to NYC) and we both got decent jobs at the University. Three years ago, she started an EA the PA w/ a co-worker. I was torn apart! We were friends, soulmates, but she was suffering from BiPolar deppresion and this guy who was married but separating from his wife, took advantage of her vulnerability. I was devastated, cried, begged, threatened to leave, but she would not break it off. I wish I'd read DB last time.

She had a suicide attempt, and this guy kind of kicked her to the curb and I really had fought to get her back thou I was so hurt and betrayed, I still loved her. She committed to cutting him off, and trying our marriage again. It was hard for her to b/c they work together. They had one or two non-work related conversations/emails which she told me about which mad me very angry, but finally I let it go and said "let's get back to our marriage". I do not give up easily.

We got back together a year ago started counseling, but she was always resistant, she felt ganged up on (even though I always tried to let her talk/ vent) and that we could never get past the affair. Yes, I was still angry hurt etc. but would rarely bring it up. However, I always felt that she had not done everything to rebuild trust b/c she still works w/ the OM.

Well, in the last year, we've had ups and downs, but I thought making progress until she quit therapy because it made her feel too bad about herself (she has very low self-esteem). Yes, I would occasionally bring up the A.

Last week, we had a big fight where I brought up the past (which I know now from reading DB was that I wasn't truly forgiving). and she left just before Valentines day and said she's "DONE" and doesn't want to work on it anymore.

Again I find myself going crazy, shaky, can't sleep, eat, think straight, work etc. IT SUCKS! I know she too is having a hard time staying at her friends house.

Anyway, we're supposed to have a meeting today and I DON'T know what to say. I don't want to SCREW it up! I have stopped pleading, begging, calling, emailing as the 'last resort' technique suggested which is very hard for someone like me and I'm sure she's shocked but hasn't really contacted me either.

She says she loves me, but is hopeless that things will ever improve and she can't take it anymore. I can't tell if she's suffering from impaired judgment since being off of her meds for several months. Yes, I was 'picking' we had some ups and downs but I thought it was getting better I didn't know she wanted to leave me again. I wish we would've stayed in MC.

One moment (last week) she was planning our vacation, the next day (after fight) she was leaving??? That doesn't sound like straight thinking to me. Unless, she'd been thinking about it but wasn't sure until the fight.

I want to not make any wrong moves today. I don't want to beg but I don't want to agree to a divorce (which is what I think she's thinking). She only sees the bad in the last year, and I always seem to highlight the good.

How should I approach this "next steps" meeting? Should I let her lead instead of fighting for my marriage? Should I just listen? Should I try to convince her that it has been too soon since her affair for me to be fully healed but I was getting there! Please help me ?

OK thanks, guess I wasn't so brief after all...

[Number 8]

Cyborg, I'm very sorry for your pain, and it's a wonderful thing that you've found this community.

One of my closest family friends has bipolar depression, and what you've described is all to familiar to me (and to my friend's family). My H suffers from depression (though not of the bipolar variety), so I have had some experience with that, too. What I know for certain is that you can't reason with an unreasonable person (please understand I don't mean "unreasonable" in an unkind way). Emotions aren't rational. This is especially true when a person has not been taking his/her medication (like your W and my H). I'm a thinker and a reasoner, and it's gotten me nowhere with my H during the period of our separation. My friend's family was also unable to reason with her, no matter how powerful, valid or true the words were.

Reread the "Dealing with the Depressed Spouse" chapter in the DR book. Also reread the "Experiment and Monitor Results" chapter. That's one I go back to often. As for your meeting today, it might be best just to sit, listen, and validate her feelings. A decision does NOT have to come out of your meeting today, and you don't have to commit to anything right there on the spot.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[The Wifey]

Be brief, noncommittal and don't react to provacation. It will be the hardest part of the meeting. Just listen. If she tries to get a response you tell her you have been listening and need time to digest it. You don't know how you feel right now.

Validate if she gives you reasons - even if they are way off base. Learn the validation phrases, "I can see how that would make you feel that way, I see, I understand, I'm sorry you feel that way, ok, I can see, etc." Nothing committal.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

This is sad, but you are in the right place for support.

[Lost Rabbit]

Echo N8, just be quiet and listen and validate her feelings. Nothing has to happen straight away, yep she is all up and down at the moment so all the more reason for you to stay calm and focussed. If you need to say anything just say whilst you understand where she is coming from you do not want a D.

My H is also depressed although not BP and Im sure it was his depression that led him to leave in the first place, that aided and abetted with some of the things I was doing wrong but not realising and him not explaining himself very well either!

Good luck today patience is the key in all of this, dont pursue or chase her give her space to think.

[Kimmie Lee]

Kick her to the curb. That is the only thing that these ridiculous WAW's seem to understand. And it's not healthy, is it? But that's what turns them on.

Then, run back to NYC as fast as you can. I am sure that there are a lot of wonderful, interesting, mentally stable women who would love to be with a man like you.

But then, men seem to LOVE to rescue. Why do you guys do that? You disrupted your life to move to fly-over country, but that didn't satisfy her either.

Kick her ungrateful @ss to the curb and find a nice NY woman who will appreciate you.

[SweetCyborg]

Thanks for all the quick responses. Even some tough love there (Kimmie) that seems uncharacteristic of others in the forums I've been pouring over. Yes, maybe I do have a rescue complex, but I also LOVE this difficult woman. We had lots of fun before she had the A, and I really put as much into MC as I could and occasionally I thought she was to, but always felt that she would be forced to wear the scarlet letter forever, (and i didn't make it easy by not fully forgiving but we've only been working for about a year).

I always wanted her to make changes (be more giving, initiate sex, or do spontaneous favors for me). She's always been called a princess by family, me, so I probably created that monster.

Over the last months b/w a few fights, or flashbacks I had about the past, went hiking, went to MExico, had a nice holiday, bought a new big TV) etc. I did not pick up on the signals that she was really not so happy.

She would come home stressed, tired, mopey, and I would be the cheerleader. It's not always easy to keep that up especilly if you keep hoping for a little back.

I will listen, be quiet, look good, validate her feelings, not react. I'm moving on, no matter what happens.

[SweetCyborg]

Thanks! She went off the pharmaceutical medications which really weren't working, and onto St. John's Wort which seemed to stabilize her a little but, she still suffers from horrible self-esteem.


I'm not a saint, but I love her to pieces, and don't mind taking care of her. I worry no one else will.

[Kimmie Lee]

Yeah, I'm uncharacteristic all right. I've been called a lot of things on this forum, but it's just that I get so sick of seeing good people getting screwed over by their WAS's.

Being a cheerleader for a depressive, bi-polar, borderline, etc. is thankless, tedious, exhausting, and ultimately a waste of life. It's like trying to breathe life into a dead carcass.

Funny, though, how they can get their sh!t together long enough to bang someone other than their own spouse.....

You deserve better.

[SweetCyborg]

Well, it went fairly well, thanks to all your suggestions and support. I was upbeat without being fake, although I blathered on more than I wanted to (she's not very talkative/open so if I hadn't spoken very little would be said). She just wanted to talk about next steps and didn't mention D.

I said we shouldn't make any 'sudden moves' (too much?). She wanted to know if she stayed at her girlfriend's house for a couple of more weeks, could I go somewhere (?!) friends or inlaws so she could be in the house for a while (she misses the house and the cat). I said I wasn't sure about anything yet.


When we separated during her PA, I was angry, hostile, even mean. I suggested I would take a leave of absence from my job (which is very secure) go to NYC for a month stay with friends and look for work. She wanted to know if I would still consider this. (I am considering that (moving on?), but didn't tell her.)

I've even scoped out the job opps in NYC, and (probably mistakenly) hinted about that.

Overall, I'm proud of myself for smiling, listening, patting her arm when she started to tear up.

I wanted to say so much (a great new therapist I heard of, the fact that we were having more good times than bad, the fact that the affair was over and I was working on forgivness...), but I didn't.

We have plans to meet again in 10 days to discuss living arrangements.

Is it unwise to campaign to her parents (who love me and know she's not always 'well')?

[Lost Rabbit]

Well done on the first meetup its always hard going getting that first one over and done with!

Right firstly get reading all of the threads on here in particular search for some of Robx's.. The first thing the fella's on here would tell you is YOU DONT MOVE OUT.. its her sh*t let her deal with it, she misses the cat she knows where it lives etc. That cat will be your greatest ally lol! Ok it might seem hard but believe me she wants a man not a mat to walk over.

See if you can get a copy of DR its the up to date version of DB and read it and reread it a couple of times, the other one to get is 5 Love Languages that will come in useful later.

Not a bad thing to drop in NY, but dont push it again unless you really mean to go through with it. DB her parents is good but just keep friendly with them until you get a good idea of what DB'ing is.. Will dig around and find the do's and donts list for you in a tick!

ETA I love the user name conjures up some funny images lol"