No longer sitting on the fence

[motherof3]

For those of you not familiar with my sitch here is a brief summary. (Okay so it didn’t end up being very brief. Sorry.)

H and I are both 33. We have been together 17 years, 10 of those years in marriage. We were high school sweethearts, dated on and off again through college and tied the knot after graduation. We have three extremely cute kids, S6, S4, and D2. We both work full time outside of the home.

August 2009 – I had noticed lately that H seemed different. My needs were not being met in more ways than one, so I decided that H and I need to talk. It started out something to the effect of; H I am not happy right now with the path our relationship is taking, what can we do to fix this? H replies, there is no need to fix anything, honey, ILYBNILWY. I am done with our M, I want a D. Needless to say, I didn’t see this coming and was in complete shock. My instincts kicked in and I immediately started begging, pleading, questioning, demanding answers, accusing H of EA/PA, etc. (BTW, I can’t prove or disprove an EA/PA. I couldn’t find any evidence and eventually stopped looking.) We went to a total of 2 joint MC sessions. The first one was used by H to re-iterate the fact our M was done and the 2nd session was used to find the best way to tell our kids that daddy was moving out.

End of September 2009 – H rented a townhouse and moved out. We split time with the kids 50/50. H makes monthly payments to help cover the family household mortgage, loans, day care costs, etc. Contact is limited to emails and rare phone conversations. Both of which solely revolved around the children.

November 2009 ish though December 2009 – Found DB and started applying the principles with constant backslides. H mentions using mediation as an easier and cheaper way to dissolving our M.

January 2010 – New Year = New Me. Finally got it! I realized that I am going to be okay no matter what.

February 2010 – I found myself sitting on the fence. To file or not to file, that is the question. There is some much more to my story. I go back and forth. What to do? What not to do? Which way is up? Which way is down? Will the pain ever end? What is the right thing to do for me? If you are interested you can find the details in my original thread. I will put the link in my signature when I figure out how to do so.

Present day:
I climbed down from the fence. I feel that I needed to try harder to salvage my M. Not to get the old one back, but to create a new, healthier M. I think this realization came to me because of my kids, more specifically S4. He has always had issues channeling his anger in appropriate ways. After H moved out S4’s behavior become worse. Whenever he was told no or didn’t get his way, S4 would lash out by hitting, kicking, biting, name calling, throwing things, breaking things, and verbalizing hateful things. All this build up of anger was always directed towards me. H never saw this side of S4. Until recently S4 attended a pre-school/day care program that provided him with many different social interactions, along with educational and spiritual growth. It didn’t take long for him to start displaying his inappropriate behavior at school. At this time, I explained to H my growing concern for S4 and suggested counseling for him. H said no, that it was not necessary.

Yesterday I received a phone call from the pre-school. S4 had displayed inappropriate behavior and physically lashed out at the teacher and several other students. This was his 3rd such incident and the school policy is three strikes and you are out. He can no longer go back. I feel so inadequate as a mother. How many 4 year olds do you know that get kicked out of pre-school? Probably not many. I am at such a loss. I have tried positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, charts, rewards, time-outs, and the list goes on. I just don’t know what to do anymore.

Because of all this, I decided to take a stand with H. I decided to get back on the saddle again and try something different to work on our marriage, not only for me, but for the kids. I decided to take S4’s situation and try to put a positive spin on it. I don’t want my kids to become a statistic. I don’t want them to join the ranks of a ‘non-traditional’ family or a product of D. And if nothing else, at least I will be building a foundation in becoming a better co-parent.

NOTE TO FELLOW DBers: The below items were discussed during a DB coaching session and recommendations that were made by the coach. These goals and ways to go about reaching these goals may not work in every situation. Nor is it guaranteed that they will work in mine.

Goals to be achieved in the next two weeks:
1. Effectively co-parent with H and address S4’s immediate behavioral needs.
2. H to ask about my day/life by inquiring how I am doing?

How to work towards these goals during our planned phone conversation regarding S4:
1. Show warmth during our conversation (180). The first sentence or two out of my mouth during this conversation will impact the flow and final outcome of the conversation.
2. Do not come across as standoffish or cold but rather upbeat and sunny (180). Make H feel ‘safe’ or comfortable while having the conversation. Treat him like a friend. Make it a friendly conversation.
3. Ask the question to self, is what I am about to do or say going to bring me closer to H or push him further away.
4. Keep trying. Be consistent in the approach and monitor the results.
5. Expect H to retreat from my new found upbeat and friendly attitude.

Here is how the conversation went.
H: Hi. How are you? (Goal #1 achieved? I believe this question was just H being polite.)
M: (Upbeat) Hi. I am good. How are you?
H: Tired.
M: Why so tired?
H: I just got back from a trip. (He was traveling on business so this is the first opportunity for us to discuss S4 in great detail.)
M: From where?
H: NY
M: Did you run into any problems with the weather?
H goes into some minor details about his trip. Nothing elaborate.
H: I had a heart to heart with S4 today.
M: What did he say?
H gives me the details of their conversation most of which was regarding S4’s recent behavior at school.
M: I am at a loss as to what to do? How can we help him?
H: I sent you a couple of emails with links to different articles I found that may help with his behavior. (H did his homework.) I know you mentioned this before and I didn’t think it was a good idea at the time, but what if we get him into counseling. Maybe you can go too and learn some new or different parenting techniques. (This comment pissed me off but I let it slide because H did suggest counseling for the S4. I felt like H was implying that S4’s behavior was my fault or placing the blame on me for not knowing the proper parenting techniques. WTF? I am not the one who broke the family apart. Anyway, moving on.) The conversation continues for a little while.

I wrap up the conversation by thanking him for sending me the articles and that I will take a look at them.

End of conversation.

Not bad I guess. This is the longest conversation I have had with H since before Thanksgiving. There were a great deal of 180’s on my end as the last several months I have not made it very easy for H to want to have a conversation with me. H and I will need to have additional conversations to firm up the counseling plans but I want to check out a couple of therapist recommendations first. In the meantime, I plan on taking a look at the links H sent to me.

I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammar errors. I am functioning on little sleep. With that I will say good night.

[Dane]

Big hug your way Mo3. You will survive. You deserve the best, and I hope and pray you get what you want.

[flowmom]

Big hugs to you Mo3. I can totally relate...my children are my #1 reason to DB. I want to be able to truthfully tell them that I pulled out all the stops to keep us as an intact family. I really believe that an imperfect M and an intact family is best for my children.

It's really disappointing to hear how the preschool handled the situation with your son. My friend's child in preschool has aggression problems, that they really worked with her and her child to make it work for him. He has extra attention in the class and they keep the lines of communication open and problem-solve as necessary. "Zero tolerance" isn't the right way to deal with a child who is struggling in a situation.

I don't know if it's any consolation, but four year olds can be really tough! Many "normal" children don't outgrow aggression until about age 5.

Also, some children are more sensitive than others. My D3.5 is definitely showing the stress of the separation and has been shouting, hitting, and sulking a lot. I think that she takes it more personally than S6, because she has no way of rationalizing her papa moving out. It breaks my heart. I'm trying to figure out whether to get help for her. She's so little. S6 is in art therapy (and loves it) so I will consider that for her too.

Anyway, wishing you lots of strength. I'm with you on the path of trying to DB "by the book" and with the support of a coach. The input that I'm getting is to be very soft and somewhat indirect in my communication...counterintuitive!

[rockedworld]

Sounds like a good plan Mo3! Great goals and you sound like you have gotten to a healthy place emotionally to be able to work towards them.
Cheering you on!

[Awoken]

I love your goal setting/plans. The conversation sounds like it went well.

I lurk your thread; haven't posted before. I just thought it was time that I chimed in with some support, and cheer you on!

[motherof3]

Bump for Mind.

Shortly I have will have some updates to add.

[mindfull]

M -

OK, now that you've come to your senses, we can really get to work here...

I'm the QUEEN of getting a M back to friendly, so I can help w/this... we'll need to bring in the next PHASE expert to help from there on out, though... we can both take notes, then!!

Who would have known you would be so methodical w/your approach? You are so tried and true, M....

In order to accomplish your two weeks goals, I think you're going to need to push aside the "check that off the list" mentality (WHICH I LOVE, BTW). I think, in keeping w/your coaches advice, that you'll need to start w/a different mindset.

I mention your mindset because, TRUST ME, you don't want to do this FOR THE KIDS first. My H and I (under duress!) are doing this FOR THE KIDS. And, you've heard enough of my whining to know, that just sucks. You need to do this (almost) exclusively FOR YOU. YOU have loved him all of these years, YOU took your vows, and YOU have chosen to ride this "storm" out. YOU need to let go of any of the sh#t you're carrying around about/surrounding him, and ACT AS IF he has the kids AND your best intentions at heart.

So, the C comment... I can't mindread him, but can tell you, that if it were MY H IF he had the courage to even agree to, let alone bring up C for one of our kids, he would want me to take the reigns on this one. He'd want me to LEAD in this effort, as, even though he equally shares parenting responsibility (when he's in town), it really comes down to MOM's IN CHARGE, and has her finger on the pulse... And, he's agreeing to YOUR idea.

So, let's just assume he's living w/a pure intentioned heart.

Next, let's really work on the effort... I realize you have barely talked, let alone, seen him for a long time. Do you EVER see each other at drop off or pick up? IF SO, let's plan something surrounding that... And, IF NOT, lets' talk about how to keep bumping up the conversations, as they come.

I'm so proud of you.

Now that you've decided, though. Let's step out of the box w/warmth, genuine interest, and some playfulness!

[motherof3]

You will survive.

Dane: I know, but sometimes it is easy to forget.

I really believe that an imperfect M and an intact family is best for my children.

FM: I like this. What fun would a perfect marriage be? Does it even exist?

[quote}It's really disappointing to hear how the preschool handled the situation with your son. [/quote]

Yes, I agree. They made little attempts here and there but never really addressed S4's issues head on. IMO. In the whole process, I guess I learned some things too.

I appreaciate you input. I have been following your sitch too. I don't chime in too often, but just know that I am lurking.

RW and Awoken: Thank you for the support. It is nice to have someone there cheering you on.

[motherof3]

Journaling:

11:48 this morning: H called me at work. I was in the middle of a project and didn't pick up.

Two mintues later I receive and email from H. Re: 1.)To verify I paid a deposit on Summer daycare camp for S6. 2.) To inform me that a nephew of an ex co-worker of H's committed suicide yesterday. I have met the ex co-worker on several different occassions, but only met the nephew once about 7 years ago. I am glad H let me know about the sitch but am a little consfused by this gesture as well.

I replied to H's email a couple of hours later stating that yes I did make the payment for Summer camp. I also inquired about the nephew's and ex co-worker's family. I asked H if he wouldn't mind giving me their address so that I could send them a card.

H replied by giving me some more details surrounding the death, etc. H said that he would ask for the address and pass it on. He also thanked me for taking care of the Summer camp enrollment.

Later in the day, H replied again providing me with the address.

I reply back a simple 'thanks'.

I called the kids tonight (they are with H this weekend) to say goodnight. I have to call H's blackberry to speak with them because H does not have a land line setup at his place. When I called, S6 answered as usual. I didn't speak to H during this phone call.

Then received a phone call about 1/2 hour later from H.

H: Hey, I have a question for you. (I immedately wonder if his question is in regards to getting the D process moving.)
M: Okay, what's going on?
H: I don't know if you are in town or not this weekend, but would you be able to watch the kids on Sunday afternoon? (H would like to attend the funeral on Sunday and goes into the details.)
M: I listen and then respond. I would love to, but I am planning on going out of town. I plan on returning on sometime on Sunday, but right now I can't guarantee what time I will be back. (I am going to visit some old college friends. With the pending storm, I am not sure what time I will be back in town. It could be early it or it could be late depending on how the storm developes. I just want to be able to avoid the predicted bad road conditions.)
H: Oh, okay. I just thought that I would ask. I will try and find someone to watch the kids. Thanks anyway.
M: Ok, bye.

And that is that.

[motherof3]

OK, now that you've come to your senses, we can really get to work here...

Maybe I am just crazy.

I'm the QUEEN of getting a M back to friendly, so I can help w/this... we'll need to bring in the next PHASE expert to help from there on out, though... we can both take notes, then!!

Lordy, lordy. Look out!

I think, in keeping w/your coaches advice, that you'll need to start w/a different mindset.

I completely agree.

You need to do this (almost) exclusively FOR YOU. YOU have loved him all of these years, YOU took your vows, and YOU have chosen to ride this "storm" out.

I think deep down I really do want this for me. Doing this for the kids is just an excuse. Does that make any sense?

So, the C comment... I can't mindread him, but can tell you, that if it were MY H IF he had the courage to even agree to, let alone bring up C for one of our kids, he would want me to take the reigns on this one. He'd want me to LEAD in this effort, as, even though he equally shares parenting responsibility (when he's in town), it really comes down to MOM's IN CHARGE, and has her finger on the pulse... And, he's agreeing to YOUR idea.

I have been digesting H's comment and I am starting to wonder if I just didn't hear what he was trying to tell me. Maybe he suggested that S4 and I go to C because I am the one on the receiving end of all S4's aggression. Regardless, I think that you are right in that H opened the door to my original request and I do need to take the lead on this.

Do you EVER see each other at drop off or pick up?

Kid exchanges consist of me dropping the kids off at daycare or school and H picking them up. Or vice versa. We rarely come F2F with each other.

... lets' talk about how to keep bumping up the conversations, as they come.

I have some ideas. But for the time being I do not plan on initiating any conversations until Sunday night. Sunday I would like to get him on the phone to inquire about the funeral. I just need to figure out how to do it gracefully.

I'm so proud of you.

Thanks mom.

Now that you've decided, though. Let's step out of the box w/warmth, genuine interest, and some playfulness!

Team huddle. Hands in. Okay. Goooooo Teeeamm!

Thanks MF.