"I'm missing you. Send a picture of your tan lines."
think you'd be here right now?
You're funny dude. It's freezing in Greece at the moment, it would have to be pert nipples. Maybe I'll ask her to send one before she gets back on Sunday and I drop the bomb.
"Yeah, it's all me. You have no idea, believe me."
Oh yeah. And this line makes you sound like a self righteous prick. I'd cut that part out when discussing honestly with her. Just MHO.
You're entitled to you opinion. As I said earlier, she told me for 20 odd years that everything was my fault and I don't recall her EVER taking responsibility for ANYTHING EVER. So you can see why I don't much care for other people taking the same stance. If that makes me sound a self-righteous prick then so be it.
As CityGirl said, it's usually both of you that cause the marriage breakdown.
Okay so isn't this like how you "expected" her to respond back to you but got pissed when she didn't?
"People say what they mean, they don't expect you to mind read, they stick with what they've said, don't change their mind continually..."
Right there is your answer. Jot this down, give concrete examples and pass this along to your W. Have her do the same as to what she considers as good communication. Hell she probably doesn't even know there is a problem.
I didn't get pissed off when she didn't respond - that's a key point that people are missing. I'm not some kind of crazy control freak you know. I got pissed off when she later told me she'd decided to ignore my text because I felt she should have let me know at the time she was going to stop texting. I wouldn't have had any issue at all then. In fact, I'd have been quite happy as I'm not a great texter.
She knows there are communication problems but I don't think she accepts that it has anything to do with her.
"I don't much care for other people taking the same stance. If that makes me sound a self-righteous prick then so be it."
Man you really are hard to communicate with. I said that quote made you sound like one. It's not a stance. It's a statement of fact.
Did you and your W ever go to C to discuss all this stuff? And to be fair, we do only hear your side of things and it's coming off as self-righteous. If you acknowledged your faults and hers in the past, then fine. It's in the past. Sounds like you really have some lingering resentment from that.
"she told me for 20 odd years that everything was my fault and I don't recall her EVER taking responsibility for ANYTHING EVER."
Get a C with her and talk about that. About how you expect her to take responsibility. You can't make a person see it no matter how badly you were treated. She has to come to that understanding on her own. Your own sense of morality is not the same as someone elses. What you think is common sense, she might not get. If she's willing to try and understand your POV, then it's a start.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Here's something I do. I never assume I'm always right. I know I always try to do the 'right' thing, but since I'm not perfect, I know I mess up at times.
Actually, here's two things I do.
If I hear the same thing pointed out to me three times, I pay attention to it. I validate what's said and examine it. I do it without ego. For example, for a while my friends would comment about my sense of humor, that it wasn't 'funny'. "But it IS!" What I thought was funny many times came out as caustic and cynical. In retrospect my humor reflected the unwitting poor place I was in emotionally in my marriage. Ooops. Being willing to listen without taking offense often brings growth and awareness beyond compare.
If the bus driver said my sweet boy was a troublemaker on the bus, I didn't absolutely rule it out. I knew he would never cause a fight, but it was my job to see both sides, to understand it. Which I would do by talking directly to the bus driver, to the parents of the kids involved. He was exonerated based on misidentification.
During the divorce while my former spouse was blaming me for everything, he told me I was a 'sh!tty wife'. I was hurt to the core but I considered what he said. In retrospect I was but not for the reason he insinuated. I didn't value myself enough to put the relationship on the line to work out the differences.. to set boundaries and maintain them. I opted to go along, get along and wait for him to talk and/or work them out. Ooops.. he vamoosed without every dealing with the core issues. Which I now do.. so I can become the best person I can be.
Your post has touched a nerve in some of the most reasonable, insightful folks here who have helped others immensely. It's not about pandering to spouses to get them back. It's about being able to look in a mirror and like the person you see. To learn to admit that it's okay not to be perfect, that the world won't end if you're wrong, that it's not about the fall but in how you stand up again.
Sometimes being 'wrong' teaches you how to do it 'right'. How to be healthy in mind body and spirit.
What I hear in your posts is a huge sense of fear and hurt, a desire and hesitation in renewing a relationship with your former spouse. That you're not ready.. which is just fine. It doesn't make you right, it doesn't make her wrong. It just means that the basis you're starting out on isn't working. That what didn't work in the prior relationship still rears its head in the barely budding one.
It just is.
So, when big emotions (which come out with attacks) distract.. when drama is greater than the question at had, step back. Step way back. Return with a clear head. Reread without ego, without intentions or expectations.
Calling people names, being defensive breaks down messages. You write well enough. Keep working on writing from your heart , being open in a safe environment and see how it works for you.
Folks reap what they sow. And I'd like to see everything coming up roses for you.
Hi ho, hi ho it's off to rant we go hi ho, hi ho, hi ho....
Listen "dude"... oh wait... you don't do that too good...
So let me talk to the wall a bit.
Wall,
I'm all for mens' rights and all that. I mean us guys usually get the short end of the stick in D. It's not fair. That's true. We're told to change, and eventually we do. When we do we usually get shafted. That's not OK.
Because of that A change happens to the opposite extreme. From "nice guy/gal" we 180 to "obnoxious prick/bitch" Which is also NOT OK.
Being a misogynist is not balanced. Being a wimp is not balanced. Being stubborn is not balanced. Having unstated expectations is not balanced.
So Wall, FIND YOUR FREAKIN' BALANCE because without it you're just going to fall all over yourself.
M:11 | T:12 | Status: Married 4C's of WAS communication: Cool, Calm, Collected and CONFIDENT
"I don't much care for other people taking the same stance. If that makes me sound a self-righteous prick then so be it."
Man you really are hard to communicate with. I said that quote made you sound like one. It's not a stance. It's a statement of fact.
Did you and your W ever go to C to discuss all this stuff? And to be fair, we do only hear your side of things and it's coming off as self-righteous. If you acknowledged your faults and hers in the past, then fine. It's in the past. Sounds like you really have some lingering resentment from that.
"she told me for 20 odd years that everything was my fault and I don't recall her EVER taking responsibility for ANYTHING EVER."
Get a C with her and talk about that. About how you expect her to take responsibility. You can't make a person see it no matter how badly you were treated. She has to come to that understanding on her own. Your own sense of morality is not the same as someone elses. What you think is common sense, she might not get. If she's willing to try and understand your POV, then it's a start.
We did go to C at the time of the split, about six or so sessions. They were pretty good but the problems so deep and impacted and my ex-wife wasn't really interested at that point - she'd already moved on emtionally.
She now wants to go to C but I don't think I do. It's always me that has to arrange everything. She would never get off her backside and arrange it, I'd have to do all the work and I don't think I want to again.
I have a lot of lingering resentment which I don't think I can ever get over. Her behaviour when we split was appalling. Mine wasn't. I may be arrogant, obstinate etc but I have a string sense of morals and a good code of honour. My ex-wife's are 'flexible'. She told me one of the reasons why she wanted us to try again was because she needed somebody strong. BUT SO DO I - and she's a bloody flake most of the time.
Hi ho, hi ho it's off to rant we go hi ho, hi ho, hi ho....
Listen "dude"... oh wait... you don't do that too good...
So let me talk to the wall a bit.
Wall,
I'm all for mens' rights and all that. I mean us guys usually get the short end of the stick in D. It's not fair. That's true. We're told to change, and eventually we do. When we do we usually get shafted. That's not OK.
Because of that A change happens to the opposite extreme. From "nice guy/gal" we 180 to "obnoxious prick/bitch" Which is also NOT OK.
Being a misogynist is not balanced. Being a wimp is not balanced. Being stubborn is not balanced. Having unstated expectations is not balanced.
So Wall, FIND YOUR FREAKIN' BALANCE because without it you're just going to fall all over yourself.
Lol, nice post and not lost on me I assure you. Divorce certainly bought out some misogynistic tendencies in me. I don't see that as my fault - I see it as a natural reaction to a bad situation. However, I'm aware that there's no point in dwelling on that stuff forever.
Alright so now YOU have made yourself stuck. She wants to go to C but you don't want to arrange it. Yet you have lingering resentment that you can't get over until you go to C.
You mention that her behaviour when you split was appalling. Wasn't that a few years ago? It's either you live with the resentment and not hold it against her because you don't want to go to C to deal with it, or you go to C, get it out in the open and get more peace in your life. Do you like living with the resentment and hatred you have towards your W now? I'm guessing no or else you wouldn't be here.
Or a third alternative is that you are so resentful of how she was in the PAST and how you believe it has impacted your PRESENT that you want to go into C so that she feels like crap and you can get the revenge you always wanted.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Here's something I do. I never assume I'm always right. I know I always try to do the 'right' thing, but since I'm not perfect, I know I mess up at times.
Actually, here's two things I do.
If I hear the same thing pointed out to me three times, I pay attention to it. I validate what's said and examine it. I do it without ego. For example, for a while my friends would comment about my sense of humor, that it wasn't 'funny'. "But it IS!" What I thought was funny many times came out as caustic and cynical. In retrospect my humor reflected the unwitting poor place I was in emotionally in my marriage. Ooops. Being willing to listen without taking offense often brings growth and awareness beyond compare.
If the bus driver said my sweet boy was a troublemaker on the bus, I didn't absolutely rule it out. I knew he would never cause a fight, but it was my job to see both sides, to understand it. Which I would do by talking directly to the bus driver, to the parents of the kids involved. He was exonerated based on misidentification.
During the divorce while my former spouse was blaming me for everything, he told me I was a 'sh!tty wife'. I was hurt to the core but I considered what he said. In retrospect I was but not for the reason he insinuated. I didn't value myself enough to put the relationship on the line to work out the differences.. to set boundaries and maintain them. I opted to go along, get along and wait for him to talk and/or work them out. Ooops.. he vamoosed without every dealing with the core issues. Which I now do.. so I can become the best person I can be.
Your post has touched a nerve in some of the most reasonable, insightful folks here who have helped others immensely. It's not about pandering to spouses to get them back. It's about being able to look in a mirror and like the person you see. To learn to admit that it's okay not to be perfect, that the world won't end if you're wrong, that it's not about the fall but in how you stand up again.
Sometimes being 'wrong' teaches you how to do it 'right'. How to be healthy in mind body and spirit.
What I hear in your posts is a huge sense of fear and hurt, a desire and hesitation in renewing a relationship with your former spouse. That you're not ready.. which is just fine. It doesn't make you right, it doesn't make her wrong. It just means that the basis you're starting out on isn't working. That what didn't work in the prior relationship still rears its head in the barely budding one.
It just is.
So, when big emotions (which come out with attacks) distract.. when drama is greater than the question at had, step back. Step way back. Return with a clear head. Reread without ego, without intentions or expectations.
Calling people names, being defensive breaks down messages. You write well enough. Keep working on writing from your heart , being open in a safe environment and see how it works for you.
Folks reap what they sow. And I'd like to see everything coming up roses for you.
*hugs*
That's an amazing post Gypsy, thank you so much.
Yes, I have got defensive on this thread because I felt that everybody, except you, was attacking me. I was blamed for EVERYTHING for 20 years and eventually you get a little tired of it and don't want to hear it anymore. I know I'm a decent person with a lot of good points. Some of the responses to me, IMO, have been rude and hurtful and have not understood the whole point of this thread.
You're right about the fear, hurt, desire and hesitation. All there. Would love it to be possible with me ex-wife, but fear it isn't. Did you see my other thread? It's on the front page - WAW - Worth the bother?
