See hope, want to get there

[Gnosis]

You did OK.

Received text from W at 9:45. "You there?" I was still running last minute errands. I followed robx advice, answered 15 minutes later "Yes."

Um... I think Rob was telling you... if you're busy... you don't answer. You don't need to count the minutes between replies. You answer when and if you feel like it. Same with phone calls and emails. Sometimes your answer can be immediate -- for things like emergencies, logistics etc. If any message received triggers an emotional response in you (e.g. anger) then delay responding until you're in a better place.

11:46 W starts sending texts, each I followed robx timetable, no response in less than 5 minutes. Each time W sent another when I didn't respond when she thought I should have.

Do you see what happens when you stop REACTING to her texts?

Each along the lines of justification. e.g. 'I did this because', 'I felt this way because', 'I thought this because'.

OK, this is something I feel very strongly about: TEXTS DON'T MEAN A DARNED THING. Stop hiding behind texting as a means of communication. This is not the way grown adults interact. This is not the way human beings were meant to communicate. I'm a firm believer that if you have something serious to to tell someone you do it face-to-face. This way you will be able to convey your message with the correct tonality and they will be able to see you facial expressions to determine the sincerity and gravity of what it is you're trying to say. You will also be able to gauge their response and receptiveness to what you're saying. The only contingency is when circumstances prevent this from happening -- and then it is by phone.

Again W started with text, one every few minutes. I didn't respond to any. Same line, but adding that she knew she had made a big mistake, wished I could believe her that nothing became physical in any way. That she knew and understood she had done this on her own and deserved whatever consequences came from it. I hadn't replied to any again.

She is still in the first stage of remorse. She needs to be in the 3rd or 4th stage of remorse before you consider changing tack. I don't know if Puppy Dog Tails post on the stages of remorse was in OB's thread or not... and I'm in a rush to get this out to you to check. If it's not there, let me know and I'll dig it up for you.

"Yes, and I appreciate what you are saying, however I hope you can understand that after the last 5 month's, words don't have much weight. You talk only about your feelings, I have feelings too. I'm not sure about many things right now, not sure how long it will be before I can sort them out, and be sure what I feel or want for myself right now.

You should have stopped right here. That is a perfect response. Instead you started pursuing again...

To this point you haven't even given me the respect to answer my original question."

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE pushed for a response on your original question. THAT IS CALLED PRESSURE and it resulted in the following PRESSURED response:

Another 15 minutes went by. Then this text. "Have thought about it. I understand why you have doubts.

Because she doesn't really understand. Everything IS STILL ABOUT HER. She isn't ready. She has not suffered ANY CONSEQUENCES to her actions. I hope that you can understand that it is the only way for her to learn her lesson and for her to WILLINGLY pursue and WORK HARD for what she thinks is lost that she will start to consider her feelings.

I just wanted you to know how I feel now, and how much I regret what I have done.

This looks promising. 1st stage of remorse. Nothing to jump up and down about yet. It's still all about her.

If it would help, I would take a Lie detector test.

Aahh! Here comes the soap opera... too much TV drama. Your response when she brings this up again: "I don't think it will help. Those machines can be fooled and they're not 100% accurate. Lies can be shown as the truth and the truth can be shown as a lie..."

And yes to your question. Tell me exactly what you want." My reply, "I think I was pretty clear on the conditions to return to this house. Thats the answer I need before anything else." W "Yes. There isn't, and will not be anyone else in any way. I'll leave FB, and my phone open to you so you can see them at any time." My reply "OK, I am tired, we can talk about other things another time." W "OK, goodnight."

You FORCED her to answer... and she is answering with what she knows you want to hear. Talk is cheap. Don't believe anything you hear right now. When the words are followed by actions then you can allow yourself the luxury of batting an eyelid. Do you see this?

I say this because your W was in fantasy land for 5 months. She has just had that fantasy blown up in the last week or so. She has not had time to gather her senses and is not sure of what she wants. This is why she is running home... she is going to say or do whatever she has to to get into a "safe haven" until she can gather her thoughts and have time to grieve the loss of her dreams. Only after she has done that will she be ready to be rational enough to give thought about you and your relationship.

I'm a hardliner when it comes to this kind of thing. I would not let her back into the home... so she can have the space she needs to come to her senses. During that time she will also have time to recognize everything she has thrown away. Remember... she was willing to throw it away... and it never happened. If she doesn't have that sense of loss then she will have not learned a thing and some months down the line it will be a "rinse and repeat" experience for you.

It's a start.

Yes it is. I'm glad you realize that this is NOT "instant coffee" She needs to go through the "love chemical" withdrawal.

One thing you need to remember: You HAVE NOT received a verbal, face-to-face, sincere and honest commitment to work on the marriage and reconcile. Until then, it is status quo: You GAL, 180, keep busy on working on you and stop pursuing. You are the 4C's.

Gno, robx. You gave me more than I had hoped for. Have a starting point now.

You're welcome. And... you have more than a starting point... you have an outline for your roadmap.

Now I have to be even more serious, keep mysef, and my attention to what has, and what will work. Know I'm still don't have all steps concreted in my mind. This trip will give me more time for self assurance, and dedication.

What will help is if you read up on other people's situations... and see what they have done... and where they're going wrong. You will see their mistakes and learn from them.

[Can't give up]

Thanks G.

Have to leave in ten minutes. Will check in from phone or Hotel later.

[Gnosis]

Additionally...

1) Maintain the "you're not sure about anything right now" stance.

2) Don't let her return home.

NO MATTER what she says... the FB is what caused all the problems. If you wants back in she must be prepared to give it up completely. DO NOT COMMUNICATE THIS YET. She needs time to process her disappointment and mourn the loss of her dreams. Let her stay at FIL or D21. You will not lose her because she is already lost.

If she says, "But I told you that there is no one else." ... Your reply, "Yes, I heard you, but my trust in you is gone. I don't believe you anymore. I need space and time to process my thoughts. If you cannot give me that then I know that you still have complete disregard for me and I have my answer."

I hope you can do the above... and I'd like to hear what other people think of that. I will try track down Sandi2 and ask her to have a look into your thread. She had an EA... and she would be able to explain things better to you about how the above works. This is a link to all of her posts.

[Can't give up]

Thanks G

Have to leave now. will check in this evening.

[mindfull]

Thinkin' about ya, D!

HUGS

[sandi2]

Hi CGU, sorry I missed you before you left on your trip, but I think you have received excellent advice and you are much more prepared today than you were when you first came on the board.

I thought I remembered talking to someone by this name, but maybe it was another poster another time. Anyway, I have just finished reading your thread. I was an AWAW. Three years ago next week, I left to go to my mom’s house, thinking my M was over. I did come back but I have to tell you that the trouble had only begun. It’s a long story and I won’t get into all of it, except I will tell you I had an Internet EA and it came close to being a PA. If you had known me, you would have never guessed I would ever do such a thing……but anyone, ANYONE will do such a thing if they allow themselves to become vulnerable and stupid. I was both. But I am here to tell you that my M survived and that we are very good now. Your M has great possibilities.

Your W not only had an EA before she walked out on her M, but she was addicted to how the A made her feel. She was addicted to FB……and she still is. The fact that she told you she would stop with FB, etc. doesn’t mean rip b/c she can’t (or won’t) lay it down. She will discover that it is as hard as stopping any addictive behavior she’s ever had. So, don’t believe her promises. You don’t have to say a word whenever she tells you that she’s not going to do anything again. You just “look” at her. You don’t have any expression on your face, but you just look at her. Say nothing. Let her squirm and wonder what you are thinking.

Don’t allow her to bully you. I get the strong idea that she is used to calling the shots….being in charge and not used to having her plans usurped. I think she has been very…..VERY spoiled by having whatever she wanted materialistically, and maybe other ways also. Probably was one reason she was enticed with the A, b/c it was something she shouldn’t have. Therefore, she must realize (without you wording it) that you don’t come cheap and she will have to work her a$$ off if she thinks she has a shot in he!! with you again. If you make it easy for her…..she will not feel that it is very valuable and therefore she will not cherish it. And I bet you know how people treat things that don’t cherish. So, you must play very hard to get (just like being young & single again), only you won’t be playing….you’ll be serious. The woman wants something she can’t have……and that needs to be married to “you”.

When she sees that you are not going to melt at her homecoming and that you are not going to make this easy as pie, then she will probably accuse you of not forgiving her. So what? Don’t let her words get to you. Why should she be forgiven? (I know, I know….but bear with me here.) I saw what she TM you on the phone and I don’t recall her ever saying she was sorry. She used some other words, but you know….saying “I’m sorry” is harder than saying, “I regret what I did”. I don’t think I heard anything that sounded like she felt remorse. She “needs” to feel remorse for her sake as well as yours. She can’t heal spiritually or emotionally (not to mention the MR) if she doesn’t feel remorseful. As you know, anger is not being remorseful and I think you will see her anger a lot sooner than you’ll see her sorrow. She thinks she’s going to waltz back in and be the mistress of the palace again without having to earn that privilege, so expect her to get very angry when she sees it isn’t going to happen quite so easily. But don’t fear her anger. So what if she’s angry? She can get glad in the same rags as she got mad!

So when she gets mad, or if she pouts and says you can’t forgive her, you may think about telling her that right now you are not putting as much thought into forgiving as you are wondering if she will repeat her behavior. You don’t accuse her, but if she says you can’t trust her……just look at her. That’s all. After all, why should you? She has a track record to observe.

BTW, just a word about validating. Some people have the idea that you have to “agree” with everything that is said, but you don’t. You listen, and you may nod your head (if you can agree), but if you don’t agree with what she says, you simply say, “It’s too bad you feel that way”. Sometimes the less said--the better. It worked for you when you didn’t respond right away to her, didn’t it?

So what will you do if you come home from your business trip and she’s set up all cozy like and playing like the housewife? Have you thought about how you would make her leave your house if she didn’t abide by your conditions? Will you throw her out?

She will test you over & over until she gets through the grieving part of her A. Yes, she will have to grieve for OM, even if she was angry at him. That doesn’t make a H feel very good, does it? But, it is necessary…just as the remorse is necessary. I don’t think five months is long enough. If she was that crazy about OM to leave her M of several years and go off into the sunset to meet him…..and then suddenly it never developed into a physical relationship? I don’t buy a word of what she told you about that made up story. Sounds too much like a movie scene. She probably got the idea from a TV program.

She is very likely to have a relapse b/c of the short time it’s been. But, I don’t know the reasons behind her wanting to suddenly come home. I have some ideas, but I don’t know. So, you’ll have to apply tough love all the way with her. Can you do that? You sound like a man who has the right stuff to do it.

I would suggest you do not have any make-up sex. B/c the R is not ready for that. She may even try to pursue you a bit in order to “secure” her place there in the home. Be strong and tell her that you are not ready for that. Don’t worry about her feeling hurt. Let her feel whatever she feels b/c she needs to go through it. She needs to experience loss……and I don’t see where she has had to do any of that, so far.

If you had the attitude of a WAH, how do you think she would react? I bet she would pursue you like crazy. I’m not telling you to get into an A or anything like that! But if the shoe was on the other foot, and she thought you didn’t want her……she would want you more than anything in this world.

[sandi2]

Guess I wasn't finished (lol). I forgot to say that you do need to be able to forgive her, and I'm sure you know that. You have to do it for yourself more than anything. But it amazes me how the WAW thinks that all she has to do is be "ready" to go back home and her H should jump for joy and that's all there is to it. Shows she is still in the fog.

As already explained to you by G, her remorse will come in stages. I think everything will come in stages and that is why you must realize this will take a long time to heal. But you are off to a good start. Don't panic if you have a backslide.....I don't know anyone who hasn't said the wrong thing or did something the wrong way.

Take care of "you".

[Gnosis]

Thanks for taking the time to stop by Sandi. You've managed to explain it better than I would ever have.

There you go Dale, what Sandi has shared is better than any "inside" information you could ever have gotten from friends or family. Take her advice to heart.

[nsw1222]

Sandi...would you mind sharing what your H did while you were gone, how long you were gone, and what made you decide to come back? Did your H DB...did he go dark, do 180's, GAL, etc?

[mindfull]

Dale -

Hi! Glad to see Sandi's here. No one can explain a WAW thought process like her!

Just bringing you warm and fuzzies - I know it was a rough day. HUGS