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flowmom Offline OP
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This is my second sitch thread...my first sitch thread is here.

Here's a summary of my sitch and I've added more background on our history:

now:
Me: 41 | WAH: 40
together: 17 years | married: 9 years
two children who mean the world to us: S: 6 (behaviour challenges, homeschooling) | D: 3.5
H: depression/MLC (no evidence of A yet but looks like he's heading that way)

history:
1992: one of H's brothers died
1992: started R (long distance/non-monogamous by H's choice)
1994: started being monogamous and living in same city
1995: another one of H's brothers died
1995: moved in together
1996-98: I was depressed on and off
1998: H had brief A which I discovered and he ended
1999: H proposed (with no pressure from me)
2000: we married
2003: first baby (high needs)
2004: H's depression started, and distance increased in marriage...we both struggled to cope with work and parenting
2006: second baby
Dec 2008-May 2009: first and only MC (ending in impasse because H not shifting)
summer 2009: mixed signals...some positive (some physical intimacy, a date together), some negative (more workaholism, more distant)
fall 2009: H more distant and more problems with anger management (even with children)
Dec 11, 2009: got an occupational therapy assessment about our son...it started to really sink in that he has special needs
Dec 22, 2009: bomb (H revealed that he was in crisis regarding our marriage but didn't have a solution)
Dec 28, 09: H first mentioned the idea of a trial separation
Jan 3, 2010: separation (H moved out for a "trial" separation)
Jan 12, 2010: I started DBing after reading DR and getting a coaching session

rough stuff going on:
  • high needs child (S) has stressed our family a lot
  • H is depressed (for years?) and hasn't had any treatment, stopped having friends, always grumpy
  • seems like H has some MLC issues -- I've made changes but nothing satisfies H (now he's posting on the walls of girls who are 20 years younger in FB)
  • lots of financial stress, big debt in short term because of H's business plan that bombed in the fall of 2009
  • H has a business and also doing shift work
  • I'm a stay at home mom, I have a professional career that's been on hold to be there for my children

What H has been saying lately:

Soon after moving out H said "the spark is gone", "I bear you no ill will", "I have no motivation to work on our marriage", "if you were going to change, why didn't you 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, or 1 year ago?". He blames all of his unhappiness on our marriage problems, which I don't believe is realistic. Last time I asked him if another woman was involved, he said "I wish". He's basically "done" but he's leaving the door open for himself to change his mind. In the 13 days since I started DBing, we haven't had any R or D talks (H just mentioned D once and I didn't react).

me right now:
  • avoiding all R & D talk
  • seeing H constantly due to coparenting
  • trying to stay pleasant and cheerful but not pursuing
  • babystepping towards GAL
  • trying to work on my thinking so I don't go insane
  • doing everything I can to make this easier on my children
  • avoiding all legal stuff
  • gradually recovering from pneumonia, which started over a month ago before this crisis started


me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4
current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp
.: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
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Ok, I just found your answer on mb28 thread. I think motherof3 gave you some answers that will work. If your H is as depressed as you state he may not be as capable of proceeding with the divorce or separation as you give him credit for. I don't know. However do not grease the wheels of divorce. Do not do anything that would help him. As far as conversation I understand that you have small children. Try to keep the conversation to a minimum and act like he is a business partner.
You state that your DB'ing is working. GOOD. Try to stay on that path. You have changed things and gotten some small results. Even if those results are only that the D talk has stopped.
There does not have to be evidence of an A in order for it to be a MLC. In fact I would guess that it probably is a MLC.
Have I given you the MLC resources? If not I will be glad to give you some more links. There is a lot to learn. There are no quick fixes. This can be a very long process.


Me-70, D37,S36
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flowmom Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: OldPilot
There does not have to be evidence of an A in order for it to be a MLC. In fact I would guess that it probably is a MLC.
I re-read the MLC chapter in DR yesterday, and I became more convinced that that's what's going on. H is a very fit guy, but he has a chronic disease and he had a wakeup call a couple of years ago that he may die or be seriously incapacitated as early as 3 years from now. Things are a bit more optimistic now, but he has had to be confronted with his mortality in a very disturbing way. I think that has contributed to depression and MLC. There has been a lot of MLC stuff in our relationship -- me putting a lot of effort into addressing the stuff that he was unhappy about (I stopped nagging, I started doing almost all of the cleaning and cooking without acting martyrish about it, I started being more supportive of him), but it seemed like nothing I ever did was enough.
Originally Posted By: OldPilot
Have I given you the MLC resources? If not I will be glad to give you some more links. There is a lot to learn. There are no quick fixes. This can be a very long process.
I'd love to see your resources. I need more information about this.


me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4
current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp
.: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
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Me-70, D37,S36
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Also when you read the resources, read the entire thread. There is lots of good commentary in the threads themselves.


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flowmom Offline OP
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Just had a coaching session with Dotty. Her suggestions:
  • work on a "soft start-up" when talking to H...rather than getting directly to the point when bringing up a topic, try to provide context and ask permission so that my communication seems less harsh and doesn't end up sounding like indirect criticism. For example, instead of saying "S crawled into bed with me because he was afraid of monsters", say "I know that you care about how the children are feeling these days...is it OK if I share something that S said this morning?", then get his OK before telling him about it.
  • H has had an invidividual session with the psychologist that I suggested for developing a coparenting plan (my way of trying to avoid the mediation that H was suggesting). I haven't made my individual appt yet, but I had told H I would make one. When H brings it up, I'll say "Oh, the psychologist never phoned me back (true) and I've been pretty busy with other things (true)". Then say something like "I was just thinking, I brought up the coparenting plan idea when I was feeling pretty emotional (true), but it seems like in the meanwhile we've fallen into a bit of a routine with coparenting. Do you think we could just get together and talk about what's working and what changes we'd like to see happen?". Dotty is concerned that having the coparenting plan meeting would trigger a lot of D talk and planning, which is also my concern.
  • when H complains about feeling tired, I can empathize "you're feeling really tired huh?"
  • if an opportunity arises to bring it the topic of S's special needs diagnosis process, say something like "what a shock this has been to us" = aligning us together as grieving parents
  • without pursuing, show small kindnesses to H and be cooperative (she felt that giving my OK to him taking the bookshelves was good under the circumstances)
  • doing small friendly favours is OK as long as it doesn't look pursuing
  • whenever anything tense topic comes up, reflect back what he is saying to help him sort himself out and to stop myself from saying something dumb
  • even though H may be acting in a strategic way with respect to planning for divorce, try not to allow myself to interpret his actions in that light, give him the benefit of the doubt (to avoid clouding my thinking)


me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4
current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp
.: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
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Wow. Die or incapacitated. If I were him, I don't know if I would want to be a liability instead of a provider. I can see one reason why he might be questioning M, now. MLC might be simplifiying someone questioning his role as a man and a husband

Of course, things are always so much more complicated.

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flowmom Offline OP
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Thanks so much OP for the MLC resources. I'm tackling them.

So, I've read this thread: The Six Stages of a Mid Life Crisis, by HB.

This helped me to understand how H sees me right now:
Quote:
Then there's the spouse of the Mid Lifer-he/she doesn't look the same as she did-as the Mid Lifer ages, so does the spouse, and we cannot help what heredity does to our looks; but their spouses are also a REFLECTION of them, how they have treated them, what they have given or with-held, and they begin to deny what they are seeing, thinking if they had it to go all over again they might have married someone else and been happier than they are now-never mind it's not true- and that leads to the next stage--Anger
Based on this, I think that H is in REPLAY:
Quote:
The adolescent in them comes out full-force while in the stage of Replay, also ALL stages except Denial and Acceptance are shown while there(full-blown MLC).
I'm seeing a mix of Anger (rage/blaming)/Replay (flirting, etc.)/Depression (sleep problems, black moods)/Withdrawal (brooding).

I found what snodderly wrote in the above thread helpful:
Quote:
When you are pleasant and nice to the mlcer, they think you are up to some, just as we think they are when they are quiet and nice. They are very paranoid during mlc. They don't want us to be nice to them. They want us anger and nasty so that they can justify why they are doing the things they are doing. How can they justify leaving us if we are nice and pleasant all of the time? You've asked the question that millions of others have asked--how can they close themselves off from us. It's easy--we really don't exist to them right now. They've gone back to their childhoods and we are not there spouses during that time. Go back and re-read HB's stages and then hop over the to thread that I created back in October about MLC-Through the Eyes of a Visitor. The inner child is explained there quite well, right along w/replay. Remember this, as long as they are in replay, they have returned to this childhood. Until that time passes and they go through depression and withdrawal, you will only be a friend or someone they know. They do not want the marriage or a spouse tying them down. In their minds, they have to be single and free in order to relive this youthful time and resolve those issues that need to be resolved. The best advice that I can give you is to just leave him alone, contact him only in emergencies. Distance and detach lovingly. If he contacts you, treat him as you would a co-worker or friend. When he begins to bait you back into his drama, do not fall for it. Do not try to play games w/him as he will sense it right off the bat and will retaliate against you. Whatever you do for changes, they must become permanent!
The bolded part above: H is doing this quite deliberately. He is contacting old friends from before our M and looking at old photos to try to reconstruct his pre-M identity. And he's moved out to erase the reality of being a married, middle-aged man. Now he can live the illusion of the single life, at least part of the time. But maybe he will go back and finally deal with the deaths of his two brothers (friends and family think he never fully grieved their deaths).

I feel sooooo sad that no one has been there for H enough to give him the support that he needs. Our MC never mentioned MLC once, in spite of him showing a lot of the signs. Reading information like this possibly could have helped him at some point, but it can't come from me. His dad flew in to see him, but H's dad just doesn't have enough emotional intelligence or insight to be there for his son.


me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4
current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp
.: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
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You mentioned on another thread you felt it was impossible for somebody without children to understand your position.

Could it be possible that you don't understand the position of people that have been through what you are only starting to experience, in some cases, for multiple years?

Every post seems so focused on your H and his issues and really, you need to focus on your issues and if you are not ready to do that how about finding some solutions for problems you have mentioned several times?

If the children wig out at 5pm for dinner what would be the solution so that does not continue? Are you familiar with "once a month cooking" (and yes, you can do this preservative free with organic and whole foods)? If not there are an abundance of free resources online. If you arranged it with your H (or a sitter) you could free up the day it takes to do this for the month and much of the "5pm wig time" might be eliminated.

What about a "mother's morning out" program for your children to attend? What about calling the local university and seeing if there is a grad student in the area of special education/child psychology looking to pick up a few hours a week of child care work?

Dinner's Done is another idea. It might not be called that in Canada but I bet they have something similar. It again would eliminate the 5pm rush and get you out of the house, meeting new people AND allow you to prepare lovely meals for your family.

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flowmom Offline OP
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Thanks for your post CG.

Originally Posted By: CityGirl
You mentioned on another thread you felt it was impossible for somebody without children to understand your position.
Actually, I was recommending that the poster get a MC who has children as I think that it would be incredibly hard for a single, childless MC to help a couple who is in the throes of parenting stress.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
Could it be possible that you don't understand the position of people that have been through what you are only starting to experience, in some cases, for multiple years?
Absolutely. Which is why I value the advice of every single person who responds to my sitch. I know that I am new at this. If it doesn't seem like I'm following your or anybody else's advice, it could be that I'm still absorbing it. Although I'd like to discuss positive personal changes in my thread, I also see my thread as a place to write about what's on my mind to get it out of my head so that I can focus on positive things that I need to focus on.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
Every post seems so focused on your H and his issues and really, you need to focus on your issues and if you are not ready to do that how about finding some solutions for problems you have mentioned several times?
Although it may seem like I am not focusing on my own issues, I am. I am getting feedback from a couple of close friends that I am doing really well on focusing on my own issues and finding solutions. Two days ago I made a major change in the area of parenting that addresses some of the problems that I'm having (and a major cause of M problems indirectly). I didn't post about it because I didn't want to get into the details of it.

OldPilot has advised me to learn more about MLC, and I am finding it helpful to learn about it, although it does involve more focus on H's issues than mine.

Your suggestions for specific child-related solutions are appreciated and some would probably be helpful. The reality is that my focus on solutions right now is 1. the change that I started 2 days ago and 2. working on ds' diagnosis because interventions and funding for them could potentially alleviate a huge amount of parenting work/stress. I've done a lot for #2 in the last week, including having an appt with a doc and getting a fast-track appt for a pediatrician appt this Friday. Even implementing solutions, getting support, and outsourcing tasks takes time so I am trying to identify priorities and work on my priorities. The intention of what I wrote in the other thread was to be supportive to another member who is going through a really tough time (very sick small child), not to vent about my own sitch. Sorry if it came off otherwise.


me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4
current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp
.: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
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