Better late than never - new to DB

[Hose91]

Hey all,

I stumbled into this website and I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks, and have really only two words, "holy crap!". My sitch is a year old now, and I can only wish I'd been here sooner because this place is a godsend. Here's my story.

Basic Stats:
M: 40, W: 40
Married: 7, T: 10
S14, S5, S3

Last Christmas Eve, as W and I were wrapping presents and preparing the tree for the kids, W put away a bottle of white wine, pretended to not be plastered, then drank two more shots of vodka. After spending some time in the bathroom, I carried her to bed at 11pm and then stayed up til 2:30 finishing the tree. 2 weeks later, in the same conversation, I discover that she's been diagnosed for clinical depression and alcoholism, and that she's been having a full blown EA/PA for the previous 13 months with a doctor at the hospital where she is an RN. OM is married, with 2 grown kids, and his first texted words to her after she told him I knew were "I'm not leaving my wife".

So, in early 2009 I made most of the classic DB mistakes, offering forgiveness, making decisions based on fear and emotions, not taking care of myself, and certainly not detaching. W entered rehab in Mar, and tomorrow is her 11th month of sobriety. I also failed to properly set a boundary about contact with OM, as W continued to work in close proximity, and because I was afraid of Mrs. H91's reaction, I chose not to expose the affair. There was most likely continued EA, but not PA, and there were several deceits exposed (secret email accounts, or email at work). OM had several other concurrent affairs, according to my W. In Aug, W retired from the service and the military hospital where she works, (I am military, as is the OM), and 2 months later she was hired back as a govt civilian in a totally different capacity, but in the same building. This did not happen without my input, and although I was uncomfortable with the situation, there were several reasons that I accepted it.

W's general philosophy has been "I'm working on myself, and I can only handle maintaining my sobriety right now. When I feel like I can handle the emotions of working on our marriage without picking up a drink, then we can work on our relationship". Both she and I have been in IC since Feb 09, and in addition to her rehab and AA program (which is pretty strong), I've been involved in Al-Anon, also since Feb. This has given me huge support, and opened me up to the concepts of detaching with love, and on how to learn to love myself more.

I have been only partially successful at truly giving her space to work things out, mostly (I think), because I didn't realize I needed to set a boundary (for me, regardless of her reaction) and therefore I never felt confident that I could let her go. Currently, we are still living together (and sleeping in the same bed, although there has been no physical intimacy or even much touching for 2 years or so). We have improved our communication and parenting skills, and her sobriety has made a huge difference, in that she is much more emotionally (and physically) available to the children at night, instead of pounding 2 big glasses of wine before dinner, getting a pleasant buzz on that allowed her to numb the pain and then passing out as the children are in the bathtub getting ready for bed.

She has said several times that she's waiting for the physical feelings to come back, but she has no desire to touch or be touched by me. Our sex life has never been optimal (mostly my issue, not so much the mechanics, but more I'd say that I lacked confidence in the bedroom, and found it safer to withdraw than to risk being rejected or feel inadequate as a lover, which ironically, is exactly what ended up happening)

So, here's our latest. When she first returned to the hospital in late Nov, at the end of the first week, OM mistakenly emailed her home (transparent to me) account with the one liner "good morning beautiful angel". According to her, this was the first communication they'd had since she left the hospital on 1 August (which I know was false, due to some computer intel), but even so, it struck me that this was not a greeting from someone you'd not talked to in nearly 4 months. Since she knew I'd see the email, she preemptively sent one to OM stating in no uncertain terms that it was over, and that although her presence in the hospital may seem like an invitation, she was doing her best to work things out at home if she could. He replied to the home account again with some rather lame "me too, I was just saying hello" sort of email, and I took it mostly at face value, knowing that I had no way to monitor her work emails. In mid December on a Mon morning, I was in her office at Hosp for coffee before going to work, and asked her if there were emails from OM on her computer. She got offended (unsurprisingly, i guess) and asked me if I wished to look, grandly gesturing to the keyboard. I said that in fact, yes, I did wish to look, and within 30 seconds found 25+ email exchanges in the deleted items folder dated the prior thurs and fri. The email exchanges appeared to be initiated by W, and frankly, they were brief, and mundane, and had the smell of her chasing him and him placating her in order to not cause a ruckus, but I only briefly glanced through them, and my emotions were running fairly hot. It was only after this last deceit that I fairly clearly ( I think) laid the boundary down about contact with OM being unacceptable, and if it continued, then I could no longer be in the relationship(and actually meant it, finally).

That evening, we spent some time talking about R, or more accurately, talking about ourselves. W (who has a history of childhood physical abuse, not sexual) is very closed, has no self esteem, and invests her self worth in how others see her, and she was very open about several issues in the R. She admitted that she would go for "as long as she could stand it" then reach out to OM to ensure she wasn't the only one feeling the pain of the loss of their relationship.

So, shortly after that, I discovered this site, and have managed to find solace and some structure in how to detach from the outcome of this situation, and how to truly focus on myself, and most importantly, I think I realized how I had lost my self respect, and that of my wife. Several threads, and many posts by Puppy, Sandi, Robx and others were exactly what I needed. I am a senior officer in the military, have over 2500 hours flying Navy aircraft on and off of aircraft carriers, and have always been an influential, confident, decisive and successful leader, but somehow I had lost myself in my R, and failed to be those things in my W's eyes, and worse, became the clingy, needy, wimpy victimized H.

Now I find myself in sort of a no mans land of DB'ing. We had been seeing MC up through May, but MC said IC was more critical, and MC'ing was counter productive until W was able to work through issues of depression, alcholism, etc. Now, after latest crisis, she's agreed to return to MC. I believe she's open to reconciliation. She's openly stated that OM is not the answer (rehab and IC have been helpful here), but that she's not sure she wants to remain in M, either. I feel like I'm not in the full DB'ing mode of going dark, and fully detaching, but on the other hand, I don't know if we're ready for the kind of work DR allows you to do assuming both parties are committed to M. So, I feel like I'm working to GAL, and to be the man and father that any woman would be crazy to leave. It feels good, mostly, but its tough work for sure.

There are probably more holes in that post than in a 10 pound brick of swiss cheese, and I'll be happy to fill them in as they're exposed. Some other things...

1. It's generally accepted in AA that no major life changes should be made in the first year of sobriety. An alcoholics emotional growth ceases when they begin drinking, so i'm essentially married to a 22 year old. February marks 12 months, so we've agreed to maintain the status quo until then.

2. She is a fantastic mother, and is not in any way shape or form abandoning the children for the OM, nor do we seem to have (at the moment anyhow) any issues with trying to use the children to influence the R.

3. This is my 2nd M (no kids in first one, lasted 6 years), her first. I strongly identify with Chap one in DR (and DB, i think) about D not being the answer its cracked up to be. I initiated my first D, and though it was probably the right move, it was the hardest thing i've ever done. I'm the product of D (when I was 5, sister was 2) and although my folks did OK and were amicable, I NEVER wanted to put my kids through that. This contributes, perhaps, to my desire to remain in M despite my W's belief that I should have given up and walked out long ago, because she's done too much damage.

Finally, my latest questions are:

1. Although I essentially set a boundary, I DID not use the classic wording found throughout these posts, and I wonder if I need to clarify that and restate it. It feels like it might be overkill, but on the other hand, I want to be clear, and if its right for me to clarify, then I don't want to not do it because of worrying about what Ms H91 will say or feel or how she will react.

2. Exposure. It's been a year. I wonder if I should inform OMW. Not to inflict pain on him or revenge, but because if it was me, and she'd known, I'd have wanted to know sooner. Again, I have a hard time separating my feelings on what's right as opposed to my feelings on how W might react and how that would make me feel.

3. What do I want to get out of MC? I think SBT is brilliant, and that's probably the answer to my question, in order to address the problems in our R before the A, and develop goals to solve those, but it bears thinking about.

All right, that's surely enough. In advance, I'd like to thank the veterans who will surely swing through (Puppy, Sandi, Robx, Cutter, etc) and now that i've "broken the ice" with this first post, I think I'll show up in a few other threads that I've been following with interest recently (GW,Tridoc, GIMA, futureunknown, to name a few), hang in there, fellas.

[Deep]

Hi Hose, as you've probably read through lurking by now: Hi, Sorry / Welcome. I'm not a vet but here are some random fillers till they drop by with some more ordered comments. Recent sleep deprivation has not optimized my thinking or writing faculties I fear!

If I read you correctly, W's alcoholism and A started about the same time. Do you have any inkling how connected they may be and if OM is / did in any way facilitate the alcoholism? Where I come from, alcoholism does not always receive the attention and profile it should, and frankly my W would qualify as one during the bad old days. Half a bottle on the hard stuff downed with meds would be pretty ordinary then. And OM did not exactly discourage it. I would say there wasn't a single time they were together that alcohol was absent.

Alcoholism is a serious condition, but IMHO, boundaries are boundaries. Addictions, including As, are part of the varied repertoire WAS use to excuse, validate, perpetuate, rationalise, and prolong inappropriate behaviour(s).

What is the current sitch? Has W "accepted the loss of the relationship", and what's more the "pain" of it? I feel that WAS may "know" that OM is "not the answer" but it doesn't stop them from behaving like he is, and you're not taking any meaningful steps towards R as long as that mindset and OM is in the picture.

Being a fantastic mom is absolutely great too, but it's not the total solution. She's married to you, not your kids, and it's your M you are hoping to try and put right. WAWs who "stay on" for the kids can inflict the most debilitating limbo on their spouses which ends up devastating the family anyway. You use everything you can at the beginning, and this is more than a small point, but it's not a reason to ease off.

If you feel you have not communicated your boundaries, it's fundamentally important enough that you re-state them clearly. I would suggest you also include clear communications of definitions (e.g. what constitutes inappropriate contact should you "allow" them to work in close proximity), the consequences of boundary breaking(after you have thought through what you are prepared to enforce), deadlines for enforcement, and a transparency plan.

Good luck!

[Hose91]

Deep - To clarify, my W's alcoholism "began" 20 years ago, but it was only really addressed at about the same time I discovered the A/OM. Her drinking had gotten worse over the previous year, and she'd worried about it for the last 2-3 years before that. Primarily, it seems that its not about how much or how often you drink, its about how you use the effect of the alcohol to cope with your emotions that an otherwise healthy individual could handle without the use of alcohol (or other substance).

In the current sitch, I believe that the affair was a symptom of the neglect we both had for our relationship, and the alc merely compounded that. She has made great strides personally. She has always used the attention and affection of others to fill the hole in her soul, and OM was no exception. She expected me to "fix" her and make her happy, and when I inevitably failed, she looked for someone else to do so. There is no doubt she was emotionally attached to OM and began to believe he was the solution to her problems. Sobriety and IC are helping her to understand that she is worthy and deserving of happiness, and that her happiness is her responsibility, no one elses. In this, I think we both understand that our previous M is dead and gone, and we are preparing to perhaps build a new, stronger one in its place.

Regardless of her behaviors and choices, I did not nurture our relationship enough, and while I accept responsibility for getting our M to where it was when she became WAW, I am under no illusion that it was my fault that she chose to engage in EA/PA. I do accept responsibility for losing sight of the things that makes H91 who he is. In the past months, I have been working towards regaining that, but lacked a deep enough support system to make it through the dips in the roller coaster and would often backslide. I think that is what I most get from reading through these boards right now and relating to other sitches.

[undefeated]

Hey Hose, glad you finally decided to start talking as well as watching. Definitely wish you didn't have to be here, but glad you came.

I have so many things to say to you, but I have to get some sleep! I got wrapped up on these boards and my kids get up w-a-y too early for me to still be here at 3:30 am! I'll get back to you ASAP.

[undefeated]

Ok, so apparently I'm the one who is better late than never. I'm so sorry I didn't get back to you when I said I would. No excuses; I should have been here to give my $.02 if I said I would. But I am here now so I hope I can say something worth having waited for.

I discover that she's been diagnosed for clinical depression and alcoholism, and that she's been having a full blown EA/PA for the previous 13 months with a doctor at the hospital where she is an RN. OM is married, with 2 grown kids, and his first texted words to her after she told him I knew were "I'm not leaving my wife".

This is a whole lot to suddenly find out at once. Why did she tell you? Was her IC encouraging her, or did she feel the need to get it out? Or did she throw it at you to make you feel guilty for harping on about her drinking? Because one of the #1 behaviors of a WAS is to blame anybody but themselves, and preferably their spouse if at all possible.

As for the "I'm not leaving my wife" text, what is that to you? He was (is? ) still engaging your W in inappropritate contact. I am personally all for telling the OMW, but I suggest not anticipating the answer. It could be something you aren't expecting at all.

Now I find myself in sort of a no mans land of DB'ing. We had been seeing MC up through May, but MC said IC was more critical, and MC'ing was counter productive until W was able to work through issues of depression, alcholism, etc. Now, after latest crisis, she's agreed to return to MC.

Have you considered a different marriage counselor? I'm not sure this one sounds like they have your goals and plans in mind. Make the therapist fit your needs; don't let them fit you to their "program."

Again, I have a hard time separating my feelings on what's right as opposed to my feelings on how W might react and how that would make me feel.

It is a difficult line to walk, I think, and especially as we are new to Db'ing. It's all so unusual and often opposite of what we would think or do if left to our own devices.

Do you see the A > B > A > B > A cycle here, though? You decide something you think is right, she may react in a way that you didn't want, so then you react to her, so then she does/says/emotes something more, so then you wonder if it was really the right thing at all. Have you told yourself that her reaction to your choices does not have to affect your feelings of right/wrong on the matter?

I'm not saying don't think things through carefully; please do! I'm begining to learn effective communication, but I tend to get too hasty and the results are often not pretty. (Check out my thread and the e-mail to my MIL) I don't know if this is something that would work for you, but my IC told me to use the rule of 3. Run your idea past 3 people uninvolved in the situation and use them as a barometer. They can probably help you determine whether you are acting too much on feelings; even if you just understand it better yourself by hearing it out loud. Never underestimate the usefulness of saying something out loud. Sometimes you realize that it only sounded good in your mind.

I do accept responsibility for losing sight of the things that makes H91 who he is. In the past months, I have been working towards regaining that, but lacked a deep enough support system to make it through the dips in the roller coaster and would often backslide. I think that is what I most get from reading through these boards right now and relating to other sitches.

It's easy to lose ourselves, too easy by far. It's partly a cultural thing, but that's a whole 'nother topic! The point is, you are rediscovering you and that is great! Positive forward motion should never be undervalued. I too am glad for this place and these people. Everty situation is, of course, unique. But we convey to each other a sense of strength and comraderie that we desperately need and sometimes have difficulty finding in the real world.

[ShockedOne]

You will hear all sides on exposure of affairs on these boards. I am on the train of thought that if it will help in DB'ing, than it should be done. However, the OM and his W, are not your concern. If the A is still in process, then yes absolutely tell her, if it has ended, than what good does it do you to tell her. It is their problem to deal with if communication has stopped.

[undefeated]

Hey Hose91, thought I'd drop by and see how you are doing. Hope you are having a good day