I second Pup and agree with Gucci, especially about the critical spirit thing. I'm going to guess that's one of the reasons (probably pretty high on the list) of why she has for the most part shut off contact with you.
Getting intentional about NOT being at the gym while she is there is an excellent idea. In many ways, she STILL feels suffocated by you. Remember her birthday where you put flowers everywhere she breathed air? You said you learned your lesson...you need to prove that. Not being at the gym while she is there is another step in that direction.
One of the things I (and others) pointed out to you a long time ago was that your e-mails had WAY too many questions in them. Questioning everything and wanting things done your way is a sign of a critical spirit.
Take Gary Smalley & John Trent's personality test if you haven't already. Once you've done that, you can get some insight on both your positive and negative personality characteristics. Continue to strengthen the positive ones and think about how you can lessen the negative ones. This is something I am doing now as part of my own growth process.
Gucci, I really did a lot of thinking about your post. I've read it several times since yesterday before I posted my reply. It definitely got me thinking. Got me to take a hard look at myself on some issues.
Critical spirit. I've never heard that before. Did a lot of thinking on this one. I never saw myself this way. I felt like I always tried to put my W on a pedestal and build her up everyday. I used to joke with her about the housework. Maybe she took it a different way then I intended? However, I thought she joked about her not doing such a great job too. I've benn thinking of other ways thoughout the M that I might have been a critical spirit to W.
I think my W has always had self esteem issues. Her weight was always an issue for her and she grew up in a difficult household. Her father was very demanding and never there for her emotionally. Her mother had her own set of issues. I think when I came along many years ago it was like she finally had someone who cared about her. I was someone who put her first and told her what a wonderful person she is.
I know that I can be a very controlling person at times. It's something that I've been working on to fix. When I owned my company I was the one in charge of great responsibilities. Very, very stressful. I know it took a huge toll on my W. I often thought that maybe I should have just closed the company earlier and done something else because I knew how much it stressed my W. However, I felt like it was what I wanted to do. I wondered if I would resent my W if I felt like I gave up my company for her. I don't know. It was such a crazy time on our lives.
Getting back to the critical spirit. Yes, maybe I do come off that way a bit. I don't mean to. I guess I'm just used to doing things my way. That doesn't mean that I didn't do what my W wanted. I would often ask her what she wanted. Sometimes I feel like she didn't tell me what she really wanted to do in certain situations.
The year before she left I became a very weak man. She would ask me questions and I would say that we could do whatever she wanted. Little things even, like when we would go out to dinner. She would ask me where I wanted to go and I would say wherever she wanted to go. Boy, we used to have 20 minute conversations sometimes just deciding on a place to eat. I know it used to aggravate her because I think she just wanted me to take charge. I think a lot of that for me was due to my depression though. I felt so bad for not having a job that I wanted to please her and do whatever she wanted. I think during this time I grew to be afraid of my W because I felt like I was in the weaker position with no job. I knew she was upset with me. I guess I kept thinking that I could get myself straightened out on my own (again thinking I was in control of myself), get a job, get over my depression and make everything better. There wasn't a day that went by during that time when I didn't think about wanting to provide a better life for my W and I. I don't know why I just couldn't do it. I felt stuck.
Gucci, I really liked these comments...
Quote:
Then I start analyzing it to death. Why did she do it?
Originally Posted By: gucci loafer
Guilt. Your email to her that you handled it ALLOWED her to finally feel the guilt. You have kept her from feeling guilty. Once you let go of her vacuuming, she was free to do it out of choice and not because YOU wanted it done. (keep that in mind and notice how good it works when you let go of things and let them make their own choices)
I need to think of what else I might be doing that I can change/stop so that my W can make her own choices. Right now I feel like I'm not controlling because there's not much her and I talk about. I will take a hard look at this though. I don't want to control her and more importantly I want her to feel that I am not controlling her.
Regarding the gym, yes, I will do whatever it takes to be at the gym when my W isn't there. I have been trying to do that lately. Going much later in the evening as she usually goes just after the dinner hour. Recently she has been there very late when I'm there. Anyway, I'll figure something out. When I do go if I see her car I will leave. I know you said not to look for her car but I want to make sure she's not there before I go in. I agree 100% that she FEELS that I am trying to be there when she is.
I wasn't trying to be critical of her when I mentioned she emailed me back on Sunday or about her only vacuuming the first floor. I was just making observations but I can see how this comes off as critical. I will work on that. Her responding from her maiden name email doesn't bother me so much. I sent my email to that address so she simply responded from that email. I was surprised that she emailed me back on Sunday night. She usually never contacts me on the weekend, only during the week. I thought that was good. I was "happy" about that. I was so glad to see that she vacuumed. I didn't care if she vacuumed just one room. When I went into the house and saw that she vacuumed I was elated. Her copying me on the email to the agent was icing on the cake. Three things she did that I asked for. Yes, I am most certainly happy about that.
Thanks again Gucci. Your post got me to really think and look at myself. I did email W yesterday with what you said, thanked her, told her I appreciated it and it looked good. I guess the best thing to do now is sit back and wait for her?
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
That's some really, really good introspection right there.
One of the positives that can come out of the intense pain of these situations is the self-analysis and self-growth, if you will seek it. Sounds like you are well on your way.
Kudos for having the 'nad to face up to your faults.
Thank you Puppy. I find myself doing a lot of analyzing the M and what I could have done better. I'm not afraid to admit my faults. I need to do this. Some of my faults were obvious and some I really had to think about. My W would point out the major issues (job, depression, etc.) but not so much the less obvious issues (smothering, critical spirit, negativity, etc.). Overall I was/am a good person and loved/love my W more than anything but I did make mistakes which I am forever regretful. I don't know why I didn't see some of my mistakes back then when they are clear to me now? I always considered myself a very mature person but perhaps I was lacking some relationship maturity. I've definitely gotten an education on relationships through this situation and learned a lot.
I've been taking the lead and doing what needs to be done with the house. I trimmed back all of the tress and bushes in the evenings this week. I am taking control of dealling with the agent. The agent contacted me yesterday to inform me we had a showing scheduled at the house yesterday. I emailed W and told her and also told her that I trimmed back all of the landscapong to make it look more open and make the yard appear larger. Didn't hear back from W yesterday but that's ok I just wanted to update her and keep her in the loop. Agent contacted me this morning about another showing for today. I emailed W again this morning and told her about today's scheduled showing. W emaied me back about 20 minutes later today and thanked me for the updates and also for trimming the trees and bushes. I'm glad that she responded and acknowledged my efforts.
I was reading Greek's story in another thread of how she was attracted to Coach when he took charge of things. That's what I've been trying to do. Don't know if it will help my sitch or not but I'm trying.
I was talking to another friend of mine this past Sunday. He and his W were separated for 18 months and are now happily back together. He was the WAS. She wanted to save the M but he didn’t. For him, he said he needed time. He said one day it was like he had an epiphany and knew he had to get back together. Anyway, he said he saw my W back in late January/early February at a local grocery store. She asked him if he knew about W and me being separated. He said yes and he was surprised and sorry to hear it. She said that it was coming for awhile and she finally decided to leave. She said good things about me but said she was happier now. She said that all of my friends probably don’t like her now and think she’s a bad person for what she did to me. She knows my friends like me and hoped they didn’t look at her as a bad person but understood if they did.
W said she heard that I was taking the separation very hard. She said she knew I had my friends that would help me get through this. My friend said that I hadn’t mentioned it to him yet (another one of my friends told him) but he would be there for me if/when I decided to talk. My friend said she sounded upbeat during the conversation. It was almost word for word the exact conversation she had with my other friend who she called back in February to ask him if I had told anyone. It seems like she tells the same story to everyone. Almost like she is trying to justify it to them. Guilt maybe? Confusion maybe? Who knows?
Talk about a rollercoaster of emotions this past Sunday. I find that she actually helped out and made an effort to vacuum and then emailed me about it later last night, then hearing my friend tell me that she said she felt this way for awhile (it was a long time coming were her words I think he said) and was happier now. I felt good all day up until when I talked to my friend. I felt like maybe the vacuuming was some very, very small step of her showing respect. Then I hear my friend tell me what she said and it made me feel bad. Granted, she said all of this months ago to my friend when she was really trying to push to divide everything and move on. Who knows now?
He, like my other friend, suggested I ask her out for coffee or to talk. He suggested I tell her that while I understand she wants to move on that it’s not what I want and I would like to talk about it and see if we can work on things. He told me that he believes she is going through this independence stage. He said he went through it when he separated from his W. He said it was very liberating and he enjoyed his freedom. He didn’t date, he just enjoyed living his own life for awhile. He said after having his freedom he finally realized that he still had feelings for his W and wanted to get back together.
I don't think the time is right to ask W for anything right now. I'm the one who needs to continue to do the work and show some consistency. Perhpas later on there will be a right time to talk. In the meantime I'm just trying to live life the best that I can right now. I'm keeping busy. After work I've been refereeing youth soccer games most weeknights and on weekends (including this weekend and next for a tournament). I play soccer three times a week. I still do work at my real estate office on the side. Continue going to the gym. I think I figured out a schedule to go when W shouldn't be there. I'm going to a World Cup Soccer party with friends this weekend. Have another friend coming in from out of town this weekend and will hang out with him. Finally got a chance to play golf for the first time this season last week. Will be moving back home soon. Will be starting my college courses in another month. Have been on several interviews for a better job. Continue to read R books. Take my dogs for walks, etc. etc. W would probably be shocked if she knew everything I'm doing now, especially socializing with friends (something I never did a lot of in the past and she critcized me for it). I haven't told her any of these things I'm doing now because I'm afraid she might think it's all fake.
Thanks for the continued support and advice everyone. I am most definitely listening.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
This is a very good post! I am loving all the activities you are doing... sounds fun! And GREAT job on the house!
Now remember what you told me last week? I had said how my H tells me (and anybody who will listen) how happy he is. And you said you thought that people who have to explain their happiness might not be as happy as they want you to believe. I think the same advice applies to your W.
IMO people that have to justify their actions (like she did with your friend) have something inside of them that is not totally rectified.
Thanks CityGril. How have you been? Is your H still texting you or is he leaving you alone?
Yes, I think that my W is not doing as wonderful as she lets everyone think. I remember when my W and I were under so much stress when I closed my company. We would go over to her family's house and they would have no idea that we were so stressed. After they knew the problems of the company and its affects on us, they said they had no idea because we both seemed so happy whenever they saw us. We hid it very well. I think she continues to hide her feelings. I agree that she tries to justify her actions to people.
Funny you mention her maybe not having something rectified within her. Mutual friends, some of her family and my neighbor (who she talked to and cried for a half hour) have all told me that my W said she had to do this for her and it's something inside her she has to work on. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean?
Anyway, looking forward to the soccer party. Bunch of crazy soccer fans. They're all guys I play soccer with so it should be a blast.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
Quick update. Not much new happening. I had a nice weekend...hanging out with friends, watching World Cup, etc.
Haven't heard from W all week. I have kept away from gym the past week so as not to bump into her. Been busy refereeing soccer games at night anyway.
I stopped by the house yesterday evening to check on it and get my mail. I noticed that my W must have also stopped by sometime yesterday as she had taken her mail that I leave for her in the kitchen. Interesting. Not sure why she decided to stop by? She didn't contact me letting me know. If I had to guess I would think she was curious if I moved back yet? Possibly also wanted to see the recent work I did trimming back the landscaping? We had no bills in the mail (just her junk mail) so she really had no reason to stop by. Who knows?
I'm surprised she stopped by as I figured it was too painful for her to come by the house too often. She's stopped by twice in the past week and half...vacuumed the previous week and then to get her mail yesterday. I've been totally quiet and have not contacted her at all.
Anyway, that's about it for now.
Last edited by mza8; 06/16/1004:04 PM.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
I was so glad to see that she vacuumed. I didn't care if she vacuumed just one room. When I went into the house and saw that she vacuumed I was elated. Her copying me on the email to the agent was icing on the cake. Three things she did that I asked for. Yes, I am most certainly happy about that.