WAW, live under same roof, and still have sexes.

[tangotake2]

Hi Cutter:

Sandi asked me to reach out to you for my next move. When you have a time please drop by. Thanks.

[tangotake2]

All:

Forgot to mention that I have a consultation call with Coach Jodie this afternoon. Will report to her what has occured for the last few days. Don't know what else I can tell her.

[Deep]

Hi,

I read your sitch since you first posted, and kept silent as I felt there are many better placed to give you some input. I think many are busy and / or occupied during this period, and Puppy for one, seems likely to spend less time on these boards. So I'm weighing in - my humble opinion, and I'm far from an expert.

Sandi has already given you great, great advice and comments. Glad to see you're taking her seriously.

Back to basics - I gotta ask, what exactly have you been doing / thinking? Let's not lose the forest for the trees. You've been engaging DB coaches and I would assume you've done a ton of the usual reading, so you know the drill. Get the basics right first.

Your M went through challenges, sure I hear you. You were not perfect, far from it, sure I hear you. You should own your part in failings in your M, ditto - great for you. What were you thinking in then extending that into justification, for YOURSELF no less, that it's ok for your W to have an A? Are you crazy? Your W is in enough of the fog by herself without any encouragement from you. She is WRONG, period. Please get this absolutely clear.

What's the big deal about this? You didn't set a boundary right at the start. The pursuing, begging, crying bit, I understand, many of us go through that, but to the extent that we think it's "Ok"? Er, no. Compassion and understanding is fine and necessary later, not now, now is not the time for forgiveness in the context of working at the M. There is this small little pre-requisite for that and it's called remorse.

So you were severely disrespected, you busted her - and let me stress that the busting itself is a BIG deal for most on here, a step many try to accomplish through great pains. But after busting her, you went back for more of the same - message being that you were not only a doormat, but a self-cleaning, no maintenance, fuss-free doormat. And you wonder how you can go about stopping her from treating you like one? Why should she?

What IS this crap about not going so low as to "snoop" on her? Hello, she is playing "hide the sausage" with OM and you should be doing everything you can to protect yourself and the kids! And please, please, please, stop assuming it is "just EA". Firstly, EAs are serious, and you are only setting yourself up for more pain if you hide behind that. Gear yourself mentally to accept that she has given herself to another man, the details don't matter for now. It's a step forward that you're looking at PIs, be clear what your goals are. You already know about OM - having a PI now is assembling your weapons of war - what war are you going to wage?

Boundaries and consequences, set them clearly. With regards to OM and you firstly, then with regards to the kids. It's ridiculous the way she flaunts them with OM. I would throw just about all inhibitions out the window where the kids are concerned, be nasty in the consequences if you have to. I would even go so far as to consider making it clear that you will explain in excruciating detail to the kids why it is wrong what she is doing.

Yes, I know ... never use the kids, never drag them in, never bad mouth your spouse. Well, if being in As is like drug addiction, I would be prepared to shield a W to the kids while working things out if she was a drug addict. But if she starts shooting drugs in front of them or introducing them to her poison, "extreme prejudice" measures would come to mind. Same goes for As.

I read a few threads where I was tempted to post my thoughts that actions towards a WAS should follow these guidelines:

- Consequences should be as severe / serious as the sitch calls for. Whatever it takes to bust the A, maintain non-negotiable boundaries etc.

- Never, ever, let your self-respect be destroyed. Be flexible, kind, understanding, sacrificing as need be, but never allow wanton disrespect and abuse to be heaped on you or the kids (if any).

- Never, ever do anything out of spite, meanness, desire for revenge, justice, getting your own back, selfishly making yourself feel better.

- As long as it is being done to save your M, never NOT do anything out of fear, be it fear of consequences for your Spouse's reactions, fear of D, fear of indifference, fear of being judged.

I hope this helps. I probably did not write this as well as I should have. Have to admit the outrage I felt for you and the sleep deprivation ain't helping . Puppy wrote a reply to Soldier Dad today that is excellent, you might want to go read that for some great advice (if not the whole 112 pages).

P.S. What CTH wrote, I respectfully disagree. Your W is pushing the envelope on cake-eating. She does not deserve a return on the "affection" she is showing you. Why? Boundary number 1 "I will not share you with another man". Right now she ain't sharing. She's his and she drops you crumbs at times. Drop OM and you can talk. You're not the sprig of celery on her main course.

[tangotake2]

Thanks, Deep for dropping by and offering support/comments. I have come across your sitch by the way and will pay more attention to it. Because I have read too many threads, names can be popped out but don't remember the sitches' details.

I gotta ask, what exactly have you been doing / thinking

To be honest, I'm still confused about what exactly I'm thinking.

I believe though my two priorities now are claiming my dignity back and busting the A.

I'm listening to the advices and to put in place a plan. Regarding busting the A. I plan to expose the OM. I'll file a complain with the state/county bar associations - waiting to hear from my L about a private detective. I'll contact his mother and ex-W to tell them his improper action.

Regarding claiming my dignity back, I have not done something that could make this accomplishes I guess. I just set up a boundary to let W knowing that it's unacceptable to bring our kids when she sees OM.

I need some helps how to do more about this because it should be now more than ever.

What were you thinking in then extending that into justification, for YOURSELF no less, that it's ok for your W to have an A? Are you crazy?

It's not OK to have an A. My goal when talking to a DB coach that to work on M. Therefore, I was working to create a friendship relationship w/ W and working on myself. Let the A takes its path and fight back the timming is right. However,IMHO, it doesn't look like this is my priority now.

You didn't set a boundary right at the start.

You're absolutely right. I was weak, fear, and stupid, and made many mistakes.

What IS this crap about not going so low as to "snoop" on her?

Hiring a private detective is snooping her. Back then, I thought I don't feel like doing it. Now, if I need to build my case to file a complain, I need to have a proof. I also plan to buy an active-voice-recorder for the purposes.

I have not checked her texts and e-mails for a couple of month because I don't think it's important now. the A is there. I need to work on more important stuff such as GALs, self-confident, physically and mentally in shape.

...stop assuming it is "just EA".

It was a misconception on my part about EA and A. I got it now.

...having a PI now is assembling your weapons of war - what war are you going to wage?

Please see above. OM cannot walk out free on this. He should pay a price to screw up my family. What else can I take to make his life miserable, please let me know.

Boundaries and consequences, set them clearly. With regards to OM and you firstly, then with regards to the kids. It's ridiculous the way she flaunts them with OM. I would throw just about all inhibitions out the window where the kids are concerned, be nasty in the consequences if you have to. I would even go so far as to consider making it clear that you will explain in excruciating detail to the kids why it is wrong what she is doing.

I have told her not to do it again, otherwise, I do my best to not exposing my kids to OM and whoever is associated with him. I'm thinking to file a court paper (I forget what it is) stopping or not allowing someone to have a contact with my kids. I have not checked with my L about this. I talked to him this morning but didn't ask him.

I'm thinking to tell my D9 about OM. I think I should force W to tell D9 that instead of me. I'm reluctant because of hurting her kind of thing.

I'm going to have a conversation with W today or tomorrow about kids, school, co-parenting time. She texted me two days ago if I don't move out, she will move out with the kids(I checked with L. She will have a problem later on in a custody fight). I have not responded back to her. Do you think when we have a conversation should I tell her about boundary #1? If she wants to move out, go ahead because I don't allow such behavior in my house.

I was about to give her a 2-week notice, but Sandi said timming is not right and waiting for more responses. However, now if W mentioned about her moving out, I think I should tell her to move out.

What do you think?

I read a few threads where I was tempted to post my thoughts that actions towards a WAS should follow these guidelines:

- Consequences should be as severe / serious as the sitch calls for. Whatever it takes to bust the A, maintain non-negotiable boundaries etc.

- Never, ever, let your self-respect be destroyed. Be flexible, kind, understanding, sacrificing as need be, but never allow wanton disrespect and abuse to be heaped on you or the kids (if any).

- Never, ever do anything out of spite, meanness, desire for revenge, justice, getting your own back, selfishly making yourself feel better.

- As long as it is being done to save your M, never NOT do anything out of fear, be it fear of consequences for your Spouse's reactions, fear of D, fear of indifference, fear of being judged.

I read these guidelines word by word. I don't think it's never to late to act upon it.

...Drop OM and you can talk...

I have not included OM into my thoughts how to deal with M and A. Don't know that's what you mean. Please clarify.

Thanks again. Look forward for seeing your comments. I do need helps to straight my thinking.

[sandi2]

Tango, you need to know that the DB Coach may not agree with busting the affair or drawing boundaries. That is the opinion of many of the board members, but I feel like the coaches will stick close by what the book says, and it does not endorse busting an A.

So, I did not want it to confuse you more, if you were given different advise from the coach.

[touchdown]

Hi Sandi2 can you take a look @ a reply I sent back to you on 12/28/09. I have a couple of questions

Thanks in advance

[sandi2]

Okay

[Deep]

Hi, definitely kep in mind what Sandi advised. Don't rush into things taht you do not have to.

And sorry for the long post, I just wanted to draw attention to what I felt was some points in your basic mindset that were yellow flags.

I also neglected to put in what Sandi mentioned above, that the DB coach is a professional and that any viewpoints you get here may be well intended but you should seek guidance from the pros most of all.

I would also suggest that over time, let go of your negativity towards OM. He may be scum and you may not ever like him, but you're in this to try and save your M and family, nto for justic or revenge. Focus on positive outcomes, not negative actions or thoughts or they may eat you alive. Ys, I know it's hard. Part of me badly wants to introduce OM to 2 good friends of mine even today.

Also, what I meant was that affection from W, and trying to re-build the bridges should happen after the A is busted with a transparency plan in place. Good luck!

[sandi2]

Ho are you doing today, Tango?

[sandi2]