I’ve been reading as many posts as possible the last few weeks and absorbing as much as my mind can process and retain and want to get advice and support from the veterans here who have been through this. I’m sure you’ve all heard this same situation a thousand times but here goes. Bear with me please since I need to vent as well (I don’t have close male friends near where I live).
I’m 56, W 47, D 17, S 10, M 21 years. M has been difficult all along. She was sexually abused several years beginning age 9 by an uncle and mom knew but did nothing because mom married uncle after father and mom divorced. She had abuse flashbacks early in our marriage but got counseling and seemed to move on. The abuse does not control her (except at Halloween which is anniversary of first incident) but ramifications of abuse have always been under the surface because of trust issues. She confessed since EA that she has never trusted me or God (yet she trusted the OM which obviously gets to me). She refused me sexually for the first 18-19 years of M. We averaged once every 3-4 months. I stayed because of my Christian faith. I told her about once a year the past 5-7 years that we needed to work on this or I wanted out. 2 yrs ago she vowed to never refuse me after I said I was sorry I didn’t divorce her before we had kids. Sex was once every week or two last two years. She was giving but rarely initiated and I assumed her drive was just lower than mine. I wasn’t happy but it was livable until it just stopped in July when she got po’d at me on vacation and cut me off (little did I know she was having an EA and blaming me for every little thing to justify it).
I’m sure there are multiple issues that drove her to someone else. She never trusted me to allow me to get close. Sex was always conditional. She needed to feel “connected” but I never could connect, plus she can’t connect if she won’t trust and she has always expected me to be a mind reader and “know her heart” (but she never sat me down and expressed her needs). I was expected to love unconditionally but she put conditions on almost everything and rarely respected me or how I managed finances and disciplined kids. Her unwillingness to be generous in the bedroom led to an undercurrent of anger and resentment in me (try going 18 years averaging sex 4 times a year and see how you feel). Not only sex but she was a spendaholic most of our marriage except the last two years. I didn’t express anger outright but she said she could feel it seething underneath. I get that, but I went to her and expressed my needs without having an affair but she didn’t behave likewise.
W confessed EA at “Weekend to Remember” Christian marriage conference early Nov. Asked forgiveness and expressed remorse. Said it was over but she was still grieving loss. OM’s W previously discovered EA and confronted the two of them in person in Oct and they “ended it.” We recommitted our marriage that weekend but it was not sincere. After confession of EA, she varied day to day from sad/remorseful to warm/friendly to cold and callous. Two weeks ago I sensed something was wrong and I confronted her and she confessed OM and she were still texting/emailing each other. I told her that I was going to confront OM in front of his wife immediately. She either thought I was bluffing or this would bring EA out in open and OM could tell his W that it was over and they could be together. I wasn’t bluffing. I told W to call OM to meet us and his W and get this out in the open. If they want to be together then he can announce to his wife and the world. We drove 90mi to confront him and I did. Made him feel like the asswipe he is. He refused to bring his W. I told mine, “He won’t stand up for you but I will and he is lying and cheating on his W and he will on you too. That’s the coward you want to be with.” The entire conversation on the trip I was in control and not emotional. The only time in our M that my W could not control or come out ahead on the conversation. I had balls the size of a bulls that day, which is ironic because I am the typical nice guy, not alpha male. I’ve read No More Mr. Nice Guy by Glover and it fits me to a T. I’m sure this has caused lots of issues in our M too because deep down I know she wants a leader. The problem for me is that I lost who I was during her abuse recovery because I had to put all my needs on hold for a year+ while she healed. I never got myself back.
The sitch I’m in now is that W is friendly but distant. She lost a lot of weight and looks great but feels she hasn’t had her needs met in years. I know she’s feeling the loss of the EA and is probably open to love elsewhere and feels she deserves it. She is doing a lot of FaceBook and Internet time which concerns me. She is going to a Christian counselor but just started. I’ve gone to a great male counselor and can see him when needed. I’m doing all the GAL and DR techniques but am on an emotional roller coaster. Some days I feel strong and others I’m controlled by fear, worry and uncertainty. Biggest problem is only getting about 4 hours of sleep each night. I know she sees lots of changes in me (has said that to my D) but I’m sure she thinks I’ll revert back to the old me if she opens up to me so there is not much sign of commitment to our M. I don’t know if she plans to be a WAW when kids are out of school but may be waiting. We sleep in same bed but no sex or touching. She occasionally gives me a peck on the lips but nothing more.
We have totally opposite love languages. Her languages are giving/receiving gifts, acts of service and words of affirmation. Mine are physical touch and quality time. Wish I knew this stuff 21 years ago. We are complete opposites. I’ve been terrible at giving gifts and she has judged me on that. I want to be more giving but a primary “don’t” during DB is not to give gifts because it comes across as buying affection. I think she wants a netbook, which I would like to buy for her, but feel that if I buy it she will see it as buying her affection and I also feel like it would enable her to do even more Internet surfing with secrecy which I’m sure she is doing. If I don’t buy it I’m not generous with gifts. Lose/lose sitch. What should I do?
I want my W back but not the same M we had before. I believe we can have a great M if we both do the work. I’m committed but don’t know if she is. Other than GAL and DR do’s and don’ts, anything else stick out that I should be doing?
Sorry you find yourself here, but it's a great place for advice, support and to vent.
Sounds like you guys have some issues. First, the A. You need a transaprency plan in place where she gives you full access to her email, FB, cell phone, txtg - EVRYTHING. NO contact with OM. NONE. NO EXCEPTIONS.
And, maybe I missed it, but has OM's W been informed?
Second, have you guys gone to a MC - not individual C's?
I know it is a tough situation, but take heart in the following things (consider these your christmas gift)
OM is M'd. Huge advantage for you. Your W confessed on her own - another big advantage for you (I had to catch mine by investigation, etc). Your W hasn't left and it doesn't seem like she is interested in leaving, yet.
I was in the same state as you for many months, with W secretly talking to OM in the background and eventually she started getting serious about leaving (she moved into other bedroom at one point).
The hardest thing you have to face down right now is your fear of losing your W and M. If you keep working with your counselor and start to define yourself independently (not easy - takes time) your fear of losing your W will subside and you will be able to detatch from her.
View her as a sick patient or something and keep an watchful eye out at all times for OM interference.
GIMA's idea of MC is a good one if she is willing.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
The sitch I’m in now is that W is friendly but distant. She lost a lot of weight and looks great but feels she hasn’t had her needs met in years. I know she’s feeling the loss of the EA and is probably open to love elsewhere and feels she deserves it.
She’s saying, “I need to prove my desirability.” But she doesn’t trust anything you do (in terms of change) because she thinks it’s probably manipulative. Stay with your changes but don’t advertise.
Don’t buy the netbook. Invoking her love languages at this point makes you look desperate and needy. It’s just another way of saying, “I love you”, and that’s a no-no. That’s for down the road if you move toward reconciliation.
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She is doing a lot of FaceBook and Internet time which concerns me.
Exactamundo. Here’s a suggestion: You confronted the EA and that seems to have stopped it, but that did not change her behavior, eh? Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing expecting different results. From here on, she expects you to confront. She’s ready for it. You’re predictable as hell, which is unattractive (women love mystery).
You’re concerned, so simply show concern, nothing more. “You seem to be spending a lot of time online looking for another relationship. That concerns me.” Cool as cucumber and just walk away. Now, she looks predictable and pathetic. It’ll hit her where she lives. But be ready to stay cool. She may lash out, out of embarrassment.
H: 50 W: 48 Married 20 years Bomb and separation: 9/12/09 A discovered 12/02/09 http://tinyurl.com/yctnhec
Givingitmyall: we were in MC but it turned out to be the kind that DR warns us about where all the past wounds are dug up instead of working on the future and making change. We both regret it and stopped before Thanksgiving. She just started seeing a Christian counselor specializing with women (abuse, copendency, etc). I left a voicemail with the counselor and stated I was 100% supportive in preserving the M and would do MC. She did not call back and I suspect she wants to work with W's deeper emotional issues right now and get to MC later. My W told me she thinks I control everything which I know I don't. I had to take control of finances since she was spending us into oblivion but other than that I'm almost too easy going. For her, someone is always in control. If it is not her, then it must be me. In her mind there is no mutual sharing of power or equal partnership. I think it is something common to victims of child abuse.
The OM's W does know. She discovered the EA and confronted them both in person in October. My W said it was the worst 20 minutes of her life. But OM and W later resumed contact and that's when I found out and confronted OM face to face. His W called me several days later and he confessed to her that I caught and confronted them. I know he was scared I would call his W so he was premptive. My W has been relatively transparent with her Blackberry but seems like she is on FaceBook alot but I don't want to pry since it could come across as insecurity and controlling.
tryingtilDorR: I agree that my real struggle is fear of losing my W and I am trying to detach but it's not easy. It's ironic that for most of our M, I wish I had never met her because of all the pain she caused me with sexual refusal but having 2 kids changes everything. She is kind of a "sick patient" because she is grieving the loss of the EA and their plans for the future to be together. Even tonight she has been pretty warm with conversation but no touching me.
Norm914: I think you really nailed her state of mind with "She’s saying, “I need to prove my desirability.” But she doesn’t trust anything you do (in terms of change) because she thinks it’s probably manipulative." She lost weight and is trim and looks 10 years younger than she is. She's dressing really well now and needs to feel desirable. She had that with OM but did not feel it with me. I think she still needs to feel desirable even if OM is out of picture. How do I get her to feel desirable coming from me and without having to get it from other men?
You're right. I'm predictable as hell. I've been detaching and I think she has noticed but doesn't trust it. I'm really open to suggestions about becoming mysterious. How do you do that? As for looking for relationships online I don't know she is doing it. Alot of it is with female friends and family. Hard for me to know if she is contacting other guys without proof and then I would be accused of being controlling and distance her further. I'm giving it thought to say what you said if she is surfing the net and quickly closes a screen or shields my view.
As far as her Internet activity, you can download a free key logger that will get you some good information.
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She's dressing really well now and needs to feel desirable. She had that with OM but did not feel it with me. I think she still needs to feel desirable even if OM is out of picture. How do I get her to feel desirable coming from me and without having to get it from other men?
You mentioned in your response to GIMA that you two had counseling, albeit the destructive kind. Is your W willing to consider MC with a different counselor? If she willing to do more MC, that could eventually open the door to you making her feel more desirable in an honest way, without looking pathetic or manipulative.
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You're right. I'm predictable as hell. I've been detaching and I think she has noticed but doesn't trust it. I'm really open to suggestions about becoming mysterious. How do you do that?
Do stuff you’ve never done before (180’s) and DO NOT be forthcoming about what you’re doing. Be very vague. It can be little stuff. You mentioned she sometimes pecks you on the lips. Don’t avail yourself to that. She’s doing that because you look pitiful to her. Avoid it. You behavior is saying, “I’ll take any little crumb of affection I can get”, and she knows it, and you look predictable and weak. Get some attitude, dude! “I don’t need your crumbs! It’s all or nothing with me. If you want me, pursue me.”
H: 50 W: 48 Married 20 years Bomb and separation: 9/12/09 A discovered 12/02/09 http://tinyurl.com/yctnhec
working...Merry Christmas. I'm so sorry you find yourself here. I hope you are reading everything written by poster smartcookie. Her M did not survive, but if you are interested in what is happening in your wife's sitch...maybe cookie's journey will help you. Best wishes. Goley
Me:44, WAW hx bi-polar H:48, hx of abuse S:22, S:19, D:16 Filed Oct 08, dismissed Filed again Jan 10, dismissed Now Piecing alter persona: SuperBoots
Merry Christmas to you as well, Goldey. I read smartcookie's post and it is sad but quite unlike my W. She had poor modeling by parents of what a loving relationship is. Father and mother were both strict and not affectionate. Her mother married a pedophile after her father divorced her mother. Consequently, my W has never really trusted me or loved me unconditionally. I think all victims of abuse have trust issues with men but I'm only going from my experience.
I'm the one who was always trying to figure out how to get her to open up to me. I bought the relationship books and she was the one who wouldn't read them. She seems to think all I ever wanted was sex (she's a sexual refuser) but when you are starving all you can think about is food. Her way of building her self esteem was trying to buy everyone's approval. Always giving the best gifts and best parties. But it was always to get approval from others, not me (I guess she already had mine).
I guess this is what makes it hard for me. I wasn't the crap husband that some WAWs had. Sure, after years of neglect I didn't have much to offer her either and I became boring, just watching TV and surfing the web at night. But she was the one that went to our bedroom at 6pm every evening and checked out.
That's when the OM met her and told her how he adored her and how beautiful she was and he lived to talk to her every day. I could tell my W how beautiful she was every few days but she only heard it from the OM. I should have been more in tune with her love languages but then I've always had this handicap of her not being able to trust me (or anyone) even when we first married. She said she felt neglected but I've felt neglected the entire marriage but I've hung in there because of my faith and committment to our kids that they don't have the same environment she grew up in.
My counselor said M had to become an adult at age 9 when the abuse started. Now she is the "rebellious teenager" who feels she didn't have a chance to spread her wings and now feels she deserves to have what she wants. Plus, she and the OM are codependent and ultimately it would be a disaster for them but I don't want to lose our M just to say you got what you deserve. Underneath her guard and in her heart lies a wonderful person and we could have a great marriage if she could only tear down the walls around her heart and let me in, instead of the OM, who was doing the same thing to his W.
I'd love to hear from any WAWs or abuse victims who have related experiences.
The fling won't last. It's up to you to decide if you want to wait it out. If you can forgive the actions of a rebellious teenager. Stop. Listen. What is God telling you to do? Don't make any sudden moves. My Dad (a really smart guy) told me when I was young, "If it's such a good deal, it will be there tomorrow." I have used his wise advice to avoid buying bad cars, dating bad guys (except the one I married), and making bad fashion choices. But you get to decide. Take care of you.
Norm914: Thanks for slapping me a bit. I am predictable, do look weak and have accepted crumbs of affection. Things just changed though (see my new thread). Now that the EA is over she appears to be looking for a replacement. I'm going to ask her about MC the day after we get back from Disney World on Jan 3. Trouble is that I'm growing cold now. I thought it was just one guy and that it simply happened when she wasn't expecting it. Please keep giving me ideas to man up and become more attractive and mysterious in case I stick it out. I'm at the point where she needs to decide she wants me or both of us move on with our lives. I'm not sure whether to confront her over match.com and her emails. Your advice?
Goldey: I thought I was clearly hearing from God to save our M but now that she's expressing interest in men on match.com I am not sure what I'm hearing or feeling. It could also be God releasing me from a lousy spouse who has cheated on me. I thought I would wait out her getting over the EA but I don't know that I can wait out ongoing pursuit of new guys. Good point about sudden moves. I was confident in not making any but now I'm so ticked off that I just want to serve her divorce papers and let reality hit home. She doesn't work but could. It may cost me in monthly support for her and our S10 but she has never had a clue about finances or living within our means or budget. A court ordered one will change her life in ways she never imagined. I know what is keeping her here is our kids and no money. If she wants a change, she may get it. I appreciate your ongoing input.
