Long story short. Tom and Debra story is my own. Wife always enjoyed sex, but refused so long after 1st dd was born 13+ years ago. I was right away aware and brought it up with responses from her that it was my problem. Fights about the lack of sex started very quick in our marriage from 3-6 weeks apart. This has been going on for 13+ years.
We counselled with 5 counselors, Willard Harley, but she was adamant that I do a list of things, which I eventually did do all of them. Now there is nothing on the list and she is out of excuses. I feel like I've become some sort of freak husband that can and does all things. Last fall she noticed and realized our sex life was lacking, but I think it was because she realized I finally stopped initiating. Can you believe I still did after this long?
She has acknowledged her failure to care for my desire of her and the pain she caused. I was and still am on the verge of affair if the opportunity some how presented itself. It won't happen because I no longer do anything apart from exercise. She took away hunting, fishing, friends, family. I don't want to paint her too bad as she love my family but didn't like when my dad went on an annual hunting trip or our annual fishing trip. Ugh, she asked me to take my son hunting, I said, "sweet heart I can go and spend 3k and we can go, but it takes years of going to accumulate the stuff to go, and you put a stop to that 10 years ago." I said it nicely and could see the remorse I brought about in her. It's like she's started having all these epiphanies for the last year and it all smacks of how she's treated me for that long. It truly pains her to see how I must have been hurt by her selfishness.
My sexual prime came and went and she is so sorry for not being there and supporting me (I get a lump in my throat thinking of it). My libido is not what it was, maybe from lack of use and rejection, I'm healthy 37 that exercises a lot and eat right, sleep enough. She is allowing more sex, but here's the delima that I need help with.
I feel like it's too little too late, and I'm afraid the cycle of sex (that should be enough for a while) no sex then fight will happen at anytime again and I'll loose my love for her forever.
I'm afraid the cycle of sex (that should be enough for a while) no sex then fight will happen at anytime again and I'll loose my love for her forever.
What are you doing to break the cycle? How are you treating her differently? What makes you more desirable? Stop thinking that it's too little too late, start thinking you have a opportunity to have the marriage you both have wanted, needed and desired.
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She is allowing more sex,
This doesn't sound healthy. Is that the kind of marriage you want? Time for you to lead.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I did lead for too long. I did all the lifting and I am now exhausted. I don't mind the 2x4s, so bring them on. What am I doing to break the cycle? I tried taking Friday off for 18 months and we had date night that night, but never sex after the date. I did the flowers, new house, new car, clothes, cleaning, laundry, cleaning lady, watched the kids for her to go out on her own or friends. This was in the past because she said those things would do it for her, but never did. I now do not even want to ask her on a date because I get the yuckies sort of like when I hear women say they get the yuckies thinking of their husbands.
When I would say (after 2 weeks of no sex), can we make love to night ( because we ran out of ideas I just started asking). She would say we did it last week. I would say,no, that was 2 weeks ago, then the arguement would start. If I initiate in bed, she is non responsive. ie., back rub etc.
She is allowing more sex because she knows how important. She is getting into it more as well. I just don't want to find out in 3 years that she is now resentful of me because she "sacrificed" and did it.
If I didn't say anything, I'm betting we could go months or years without it, but I get frustrated after about 5 days and get annoyed then start to withdraw. She recognizes the withdraw, but does nothing to remedy it.
I recognise a lot of what you're describing. It is an all-too-familiar pattern.
You are the typical Mr Nice Guy husband/father who lacks self-esteem, masculine confidence and boundaries, and as a consequence sees sex as something he will only ever be "given" in exchange for doing all manner of other things.
This very poisoned thinking results in him doing more and more "chores" for decreasing amounts of (usually) crap sex.
That's because women do not respect and are therefore not sexually attracted to this kind of man (although they are usually content to let him rush around making their lives as easy as possible).
I'm a little short of time right now. What I suggest is you read these threads:
Get the books I recommended in the first thread (worth their weight in gold) and have a read and a think. Then post a bit more about yourself and your wife. We can take it from there.
The good news is that with honest self-examination, hard work and discipline on your part, you can make your marriage passionate and fulfilling again - or else if your wife refuses to take on her part of revitalising it, you'll be in a far better position to end it and find another woman.
Either way, it all starts with YOU.
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
I have read your story also over at marriage builders. It appears basically everyone is giving you the same advice, which is: your built up resentment is understandable, however, nothing other than your own choice can get you past it. You can choose to forgive her and actively try to restore your marriage and sex life...or you can choose to hold on to the resentment forever. No one can blame you, either way. If you choose to be resentful forever, then that's your choice and it is based on your wife's past actions.
But what you seem to want is some kind of formula that will cause you to lose your resentment. That will not happen, though. It doesn't work that way.
So - either choose to forgive and loosen your resentment, or choose to hold on to it and end up divorced. Again, no one will blame you either way. But please stop asking for a magic formula, as there isn't one. The magic all comes from free will, your will to choose which way you want this to go.
If you're like me when I first came here, you've built up enough resentment that some men would already have left, but you always told yourself you never would. Maybe that's not you, I'm just offering what I know, and since I'm no expert, all I really know is my own story. A couple of things to watch out for:
1. If you're like I was, you're coming here and telling the people here that you're ready to be told what you really need, but you're not. You're going to resent a lot of the advice, and you're going to wonder if people really get how brutal your wife has been to your marriage. Don't get discouraged. It's OK that you resent being told yet again how *you* can turn things around--it's natural to think she should be the one coming here to get advice on how to get back in your good graces.
2. It's tempting to hold onto old hurts like how she made you stop going hunting and fishing. Believe me, I speak from direct firsthand experience. The thing is, it doesn't work. If you really want to go, you have to go. You may feel like you're only going at her behest, but don't allow that to stop you. Again, if you have the means and the desire to go hunting with your son, GO. Ideally, this is the sort of thing people here will tell you to do whether your wife approves or not--if she doesn't approve, talk to her about it, explain why you're going to do it, and do it. But even if you've never done that, and even if she now thinks she's giving you permission to do it, you need to be focused on what you want to do and what you don't, not who gave permission or didn't. You need to be considering what you want in life to be happy.
3. This is almost a detail, but it's really not: there is no point in arguing about when you last had sex. That's her excuse. It makes no difference when the last time was. I realize she won't agree with that right away, but it's true. You're accepting a rationing program, and she's trying to slow down the rate of lovemaking because she feels pushed. If you're going to ask her to have sex with you, you have to be unwilling to accept any answer other than "yes," "no," or a genuine "maybe." Statements of fact like "We did that last week" are not yes, no, or maybe. They're excuses and bait to get off the topic she's not comfortable with. Don't accept them. Now, this means that if she says "no," you're going to be stuck, but if she says something like that again, your best response is "Does that mean yes or no?" (Obviously, if you read SSM together and set up a schedule to get things started, this advice will go out the window. But if you haven't agreed, together, on a schedule, then there shouldn't be one. You should ALWAYS be free to ask and she should always be free to say yes or no.)
I promise I'm not judging you. Dancequeen gave me her speech about *my* built-up resentment when I first came here, and if you can avoid responding with a list of why you're right to be resentful and it's all your wife's fault, you'll be way ahead of where I was.
so things have been better, however my libido is still not what it was and I am having a very hard time dealing with those "lost" years of high drive and remember the desire being there.
She has intimated directly that she will have sex with me or please me whenever, where ever using her hands, mouth or body. I 've sort of tested this and of course it's not true. No I haven't been at Walmart with her and said NOW!
I've told her that I have times of insatiablility though.
I am still having trouble with the resentment of her refusals and lack of support overall. I have a very difficult time just believing in what she says period because of all the lies and excuses. I told her I need time to see the permanent change, but this is not good enough for her. She wants me to be healed RIGHT NOW! This is really hurting our relationship. I don't want to have sex with her when she acts like this, but resent her if we don't. It's all very confusing.
...I am still having trouble with the resentment of her refusals and lack of support overall.
....I have a very difficult time just believing in what she says period because of all the lies and excuses.
...I told her I need time to see the permanent change, but this is not good enough for her.
...She wants me to be healed RIGHT NOW!
...I don't want to have sex with her when she acts like this, but resent her if we don't. It's all very confusing.
I too feel for you. I know that the pain of rejection or sex followed by some kind of argument that allowed my wife to distance herself emotionally from me caused me so much pain that even though I was HD and she was LD, I told her I was through having sex with her until she truely wanted to have sex with me in a way that would not be emotionally damaging to me. That was my first 180.
You have gotten a lot of good advice.
My suggestions that echo others are:
(1) Take some time to heal your wounds. In the book No More Mr. Nice Guy it talks about Getting a Life, (as well as other books) and I feel that is critical to self healing. As part of getting a life, figure out some things that will demonstrate change both to you and your wife, so she has to acknowledge that you are changing and not who you use to be. If this includes telling your wife that you need to heal and that you just can't have sex with her for 2 months, or 3 months, go ahead and do it, just have an agreed upon plan with her for how you will reinitiate sex once the time is up. A 180 if done well can be very helpful for changing past interaction patterns. If not done well a temporary period of no sex can turn into a lifetime of no sex, so make sure you know what you want, and set clear boundaries and have clear expectations as to how things will end and some progress measuring points. I did a no more sex until you show me you want me and will treat me well 180, then a under absolutely no circumstances for the next 2 months will I have sex with you. It took 5 or 6 months withou any sex prior to my wife realizing she needed to change the way she treated me or that we were headed for divorce and it was her actions that were going to determine what happened. Ultimately you need to be able to forgive your wife. Ultimately you need to understand that you are part of the problem and your wife needs to forgive you as well. That is why you both have to heal first.
(2) It will take time and even if she wants it better now, it will take many months prior to it getting better. She needs to understand that as do you. So take the time you need to heal yourself.
(3) Figure out some short/intermediate/long term goals for your self associated with where you want to be in a year or so. This should help you visualize what it is that you want either from marriage or from divorce. Figure out what it is that you need to be true to yourself and who you are and what you value. Then take noticable steps to make it happen. I ultimately decided I wanted sex three times a week and hugging and vigorous touching other days during the week. That meant that I needed to either forgive my wife and get her to fall in love with me again or divorce her and find someone else. I decided to move forward with the first and if my wife didn't respond, I would make the second happen before a specific birthday. Take control of your happiness and visualize what you want out of life and actively work toward making it happen.
(4) If you can, stay away from affairs, they just create lots of problems. If you feel you must, then press forward with separation and divorce so you can date others. Don't allow yourself to tempt fates by putting yourself in positions where you might crumble and fall into an affair. In short keep it in your pants!
(5) Personally, I am big on board certified sex therapists for a SSM as opposed to general marriage counelors. I will say that MWD's books make me feel that she knows her stuff, but my experience with really good sex therapists is very positive in how they have helped my marriage. I really think having outside professional help also is necessary. Divorce is expensive and if that is the alternative you are talking several thousands of dollars (just on a home sale, let along attorneys and accountants), so be prepared to spend money on professional help saving your marriage.
(6) Don't look back, don't let her pull you into arguments about the past, focus on the future.
(7) Read, read, read relationship books and follow others until you find out what works for you and your wife.
Good luck to you. You are not alone.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
