Sorry this became a novel! Please read and offer support/help if you have the time!
This is my first post here. I have read DB as well as a bunch of other books to try and determine the best path for me, as everyone has their own path they need to follow. Here is my story, so far.
My wife and I have been married for just over four years. I am 27 and she is 26. Everyone who's known the two of us has said that we are made for each other, that we are "two peas in a pod," etc., and I believed that we were both overall very happy together, despite some things that were less than stellar that I've wanted to address for a long time, but always felt resistance towards change. A little over two years ago we moved across the country so that I could go to grad-school while she worked for one year, and then went to an intensive 14 month nursing program to be an RN.
My W has always had a tendency to become a "chameleon" and blend in with whatever group she spends a lot of time with and it's always had me a little worried. This came out when she started going out with co-workers who like to drink a lot, even though she has traditionally told me how much she dislikes heavy drinkers and partying, such as when our former co-workers (we worked together for three years) would invite us out and she'd tell me she had no interest in going. We've always been very open and honest with each other about pretty much all things (so I thought) and at one point she told me that she had a crush on a co-worker, but that it was just a crush and she was telling me so that she didn't hide things from me. I was okay and thankful that she'd told me until the first time I went out with her and her co-workers and she kept her back to me for the whole time while she flirted with him right in front of me. After we went back I made it clear that I felt disrespected and that I didn't like the way she acted, so the next time she wanted to go out she asked if she could just go alone so that she could be herself. When I initially said I didn't like that, she told me she felt that I was controlling her and trapping her. We eventually agreed that she'd go out and be home by midnight, but it wasn't until 2AM that she ended up texting me saying she was on her way home. She ended up showing up at 4AM and passed me as I left the parking lot for a coffee, as I was too upset to talk with her. She later told me that she had been shuttling her drunk friends home because they were going to drive otherwise and that she felt horrible and that she didn't want to go out with them anymore based on how uncomfortable she'd felt. That was roughly a year and a half ago.
This summer I began hanging out with two guys that moved into our apartment complex and my W started getting to know them as well. One of them would occasionally brag to me about the women he'd "conquered" and how "women are basically stupid creatures that use emotions instead of their brain, and if you know how to work with that you can get them to do whatever you want them to." He would go on about how he has never not slept with a woman that he's gone after, even if they had a boyfriend, etc., that he "didn't care if they had a boyfriend or not... it's not my (his) fault if the man in their lives isn't pleasing them enough." As I started spending less time with him and mentioning to my W how he wasn't someone that I liked, etc., my W had a break from school and he (who didn't work more than 5-10 hours a week at the time) started spending a lot of time with her. In the blink of an eye it seemed they were spending all of their free time together and when I voiced that he wasn't to be trusted and that he wasn't a good guy, my W simply ignored me, saying she didn't see that in him. About a week after they her break was done, my wife started asking me to pursue sexual things that weren't pretty extreme, such as BDSM or me controlling her. Shortly thereafter she told me one night, almost out of nowhere that she didn't find me attractive anymore, that our flame was gone, that she wanted to improve things, but that she also in no way wanted to have children, ever. This was only a month or so after telling people that she was excited to move back home with me so we could settle and have children near my family, etc, and months after coming home from school and begging me to promise that we'd have children. The next night we had a long discussion and she said she was scared, confused, and didn't know what to do to fix our marriage, but that she needed time, and wasn't sure she believed we could ever work things out. Again, only weeks before she was almost always telling me how much she loved me, how happy I made her, and saying things like, "I don't know if you'll ever know how much you mean to me... you are the man of my dreams."
Throughout the next week she spent almost all of her free time with the OM while his roomate (my friend) was on vacation and would tell me that he was only a friend and nothing more. By the next week she told me that she though she needed space and maybe to be single because she'd never taken time for herself in her life. Meanwhile I was finding history links to BDSM porn and birth control centers in town, and when confronted she immediately responded that she was interested in the porn and that she wanted birth control to regulate her acne and menses better. It was so quick of a response that I forced myself to believe it.
Finally one night after about a month of feeling disrespected we got into a fight and I moved out to a friends house, as I am a student and cannot afford our apartment on my own (otherwise I would have told her to go). Two weeks later I finished my semester and decided to go to my parents home for my break and spent three weeks there. She told me over the phone that she wanted to pursue our relationship and was committed to us, and asked that I come home early because she felt abandoned by me. When I told her that I wasn't going to do that because she still hadn't spent time without OM, she said she would, but needed him until I arrived. I gave her an ultimatum and one week later broke it, having felt miserable and not heard from her at all. In the next week read DB, and started speaking to her every day, applying what I'd learned. She started reaching out and calling me, saying "I love you" again and before I came home she asked that she could pick me up at the airport and that I would "promise we can work this out," that she wanted me to move back in with her. The day before I flew back she told me that her and OM had spoken and OM had told her that if she was going to try and work our marriage out, that she couldn't keep her friendship with him. She told me that her response had been, "if that's my choice, its a no-brainer. Sean is my husband and I love him and want to work things out with him." Then she told me that, as far as she was concerned, OM didn't exist any more.
The next day I flew home, W picked me up and we had a GREAT, fun evening. Everything was fine until I came back from my clinical shift the next day and I immediately knew something was wrong. We sat down and spoke and she told me that "when you had asked if things had become physical between me and OM... I didn't exactly tell you the truth. They did a while ago." Then she went on to tell me that they'd been having sex. I asked and she told that it had happened a lot, probably over 20 times, and that it did involve BDSM.
I contained myself after a quick cry, then very calmly responded that she needed to know that this was not the end of our relationship by any means, that one way or another we had a long road ahead of us, but that if we were going to work things out, there wasn't room for OM, that I knew she might be confused, scared or need time, but that I loved her and wanted to have a happy, healthy marriage with her in the future. She was flabbergasted by how well I took the news, telling me that she had expected me to get really angry and freak out, demand a divorce, etc. After asking I found that she and OM had been in email and phone communications again since I came home (initiated by OM) and that OM had told my friend/his roommate about their affair. My W told me that she still thought she wanted to have me move back in with her but that she needed time. She also came clean that she'd made out with her ex-co-worker back a year and a half ago and that things would probably have gone further had he not stopped her. It happened twice and would have been more often had he not set limits.
I have been living with my classmate and her husband for the last three weeks, seeing my W about 3 times a week and trying to hold the "last resort technique." We had a lot of good days, including our 4th anniversary but she's expressed confusion and feeling unsure about what she wants. My boundary has been that I will not move in with her unless she starts working on herself (which she has) and completely eliminates OM from her life, in all manners. After a fun weekend one week ago, W asked me if I'd spend the night with her at some point and we agreed that I would last Wednesday. She told me that she wanted to be able to cuddle with me all night and I agreed to as long as their were no expectations for sex. Throughout the night we had great conversation about books she's been reading for self-help, but I felt that there was a border up the whole night and the next day during our hike together. After this past weekend I decided to trust myself this time and flat out asked her last night if she'd had sex with OM again. She asked me to repeat myself and then said yes. After asking I found that it's been "more than once... a couple times," which to me means a bunch.
After hearing this I stood up and calmly said, "okay, I need to leave then." She begged that I don't, that we talk about it, and I calmly said there was nothing to talk about, and made it all about me from there on, telling her that I could not accept a marriage in which my wife has a boyfriend and is sleeping with another man, that I felt that I deserved more respect than I have been getting, and that I would not accept it any longer. I made it clear that this is not about me abandoning her and that I was giving her the freedom to pursue whatever relationship she wanted and was not angry or bitter about things. I was inspired to do this based on the "after the last resort technique," as well as Dr. James Dobson's Love Must Be Tough book.
I am scared that I will end up a statistic now, and disappointed that my wife may not be able to love me in the way that I had believed she always will. I am forced to realize that her fears about relationships may get in the way of her experiencing one of the best men that she will ever know and that she will miss out on a truly powerful love that I am offering. I am also worried that it will take me a VERY long time to truly get beyond all of this and GAL. Part of this is logistical... we built our future plans together, including how we'd be able to get out of a huge amount of debt that I've racked up in grad-school. She is about to start making a lot of money as a nurse and I still have a year of school to go, then need to open my own business, etc. I feel like this is so unfair and just can't understand it, but more than that I'm just hurting that I my best friend, the greatest love of my life could doubt the power of the love that we shared and its ability to get back to greatness.
Either way, it's time for me to start taking ownership of my own life and happiness, even if that's without my W. At least I'll know it's without the OM too!
MS. It sounds like you are doing just about everything right. Unfortunately, the message isn't coming through clear enough for her. This sounds like it may be some sort of addiction for her that she can't handle. Has she seen an IC? My W's IC essentially told her that she needed to treat OM as if he were an addiction. My W didn't accept it at first, but I think she is starting to see it that way now too. Does your W realize she needs help?
I am sorry you are dealing with this. Everyone said my W and I were perfect for each other too. And our seperation came as a complete surprise to them. I know this must be very confusing to you. However, it sounds like your W really wants to be with you. So I think your approach has a good chance of working. Hopefully your W will see what she is missing and seek help.
Until then continue to GAL and understand it is up to her to fix the M.
My W has met with an IC twice now. He's the same IC that I started seeing at the beginning of this and has been a HUGE help to me and takes the approach that a person can only change themselves and that ultimately a person has to honor themselves and do what works for them first and foremost. It's not just, "be selfish and F everyone else," but rather "Who are you at your core and are you honoring that with what you're doing?"
I'm hoping to get a job somewhere soon that is fulfilling to me and works with my schedule so that I can have at least a little income while I try and GAL. I'll get there (hence my board name).
Thanks for the feedback and good luck in your process!
After hearing this I stood up and calmly said, "okay, I need to leave then." She begged that I don't, that we talk about it, and I calmly said there was nothing to talk about, and made it all about me from there on, telling her that I could not accept a marriage in which my wife has a boyfriend and is sleeping with another man, that I felt that I deserved more respect than I have been getting, and that I would not accept it any longer. I made it clear that this is not about me abandoning her and that I was giving her the freedom to pursue whatever relationship she wanted and was not angry or bitter about things. I was inspired to do this based on the "after the last resort technique," as well as Dr. James Dobson's Love Must Be Tough book.
I know you're scared, MTN, but I just wanted to say that you handled that really well. At an INCREDIBLY difficult time, when you'd just been kicked in the gut, you stood your ground (and calmly, to boot!) and made it about YOU, which is precisely the way you need to phrase boundaries.
I gotta say, now that I've read your entire post, your wife sounds very immature and of questionable character. I'm not judging -- just an observation -- but it's not like this is a one-time slip-up on her part . . . it's an ongoing pattern, and she seems to manipulate you every time.
Since there are no children involved, are you sure you want to try and save this?
well... believe it or not I didn't give the WHOLE story, as it was long enough as it was. After my wife's parents divorce (she was 3) my wife was exposed to one abusive man after another in her life, including one who molested her. I didn't know the full extent of this until just recently, and thought that there had been a few bad relationships she'd witnessed when she was younger.
Fast forward to 11 months into our marriage and she saw me have my first "anger meltdown" as I call them, which I had told her about when we first started dating. I never have hurt another person, but at times when I feel threatened and can't get space I'll rage like crazy and become a totally different person (a.k.a. "Hulking"). I kicked the crap out of a laundry basket while screaming and cursing, then ran out of the house and peeled out of the driveway. Looking back at things it is clear that from that point on my wife had semi-checked out and went from suggesting sex daily to maybe weekly or 2 times/month etc. She's actually opened up to me that when she's seen me get that angry from that day on, part of her feels like that defenseless, scared little girl and so part of her started putting up walls and hiding things from me at that point, meanwhile pretending that things were fine.
It's not an excuse, but I've seen how wonderful, playful, and amazing my wife can be when she's not living in fear and when she's being true to who she is at her core, and yes, I am sure I want to save our marriage, but it will take us both changing to truly save it.
Thanks -- that certainly helps put some things into perspective. As you said, it's not an excuse for her repeated infidelity, but it does help explain some of the dynamics at work here.
Is she getting counseling for these issues? Have you gotten any anger management counseling?
I just want to say that you are a stonger man than I. It doesn't even seem like an anger management issue to me. You were honestly in an almost impossible situation and couldn't have handled it better. It sounds like your a pretty good guy and you deserve better than the way you've been treated. Honestly, that guy would have been finished if it were me. I think you showed a great deal of maturity not taking it out fully on him and also handled it well with her. I understand that you love her and hopefully she can come around and earn you back.
I'm new so don't have the wisdom of alot of these people, but you seem to going down the right path. You've tried to hold this thing together the best you could. IF she takes measurable steps on improving herself and getting help, then maybe you can revisit this.
Me: 30 W: 29 D: 20 months M: 5 years T: 6.5 years ILYBNILWY and want to separate: 10/5/2009
She has now gone twice to a IC that I've been meeting with for a while now. I don't know if she'll keep going now that I've left the situation, but that's not my concern now.
I have been incredibly blessed by the support of those around me and fortunate enough to be surrounded by people who care, many of whom have been through divorces and are now in happy, committed and fulfilling relationships/marriages, and I've done my best to try and learn from their experiences, taking the good and avoiding from the "mistakes."
What I'm dealing with right now is a lot of conflicting feelings, including anger and wondering if maybe I'll just completely move on with my life and never look back... because I still love her, though, part of me believes that she's been brainwashed/manipulated by OM. I know him and he's a mental genius who perceives things and views just about EVERYTHING as a game... he told me that day that he's never not been able to do pretty much whatever he's wanted to with any woman he's wanted to because he knows how to manipulate, and this has been confirmed by his friends. The caring part of me really wants to be able to stop this somehow... to "out" him to W, or something... even though I can't.
She has now gone twice to a IC that I've been meeting with for a while now. I don't know if she'll keep going now that I've left the situation, but that's not my concern now.
