Verbal Abuse

[lg193]

Hello all, I haven't posted on here in quite awhile, and a lot has surfaced in that time.
Over the last couple of months it has become quite clear that what has been happening in my relationship with my wife has been verbal abuse.

My wife brought this to my attention a couple of months ago and I did admit to it after going on Dr. Irene's verbal abuse website and reading for a couple of hours.

My interpretation of verbal abuse was for many years incorrect. I used to believe that verbally abusive people were the ones who would yell at the top of their lungs, and scream obscenities.

After doing plenty of research and reading books like The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans, and Verbally Abusive Men by the same author, I began to understand that there are many ways of using manipulation and control over the ones we say we love to gain Power Over and be the ones in control.

This reading and research has been an incredibly hard time for our family, the hardest stuff we've ever gone through. It has made me stop and reexamine my relationship with my wife and truly look back over the course of our time together and ask myself some very difficult questions.

Questions like "why was I always so irritated with my wife and children?"" Why did I do things on a constant basis to sabotage the relationship?" Where did this anger really come from?

After tremendous soul searching, visiting five different therapists and life coaches,and having my wife leave me with our three children for 2 weeks without ever knowing where they even went, I have finally begun to see the path that my life is going to need to take to get back on track.

My comfort was ripped out from under me when my wife left forcing me to dig very deep into a dark spot that had been un touched for 40 yrs. With the help of websites like MEVAC, and DR. Irene's Verbal Abuse Site, I can now see very clearly what my problems are and once and for all work through them all for the health of myself and my family.

My thoughts on all of this have been "Gee, I wonder just how many guys there are on the Divorce Busters website that have these same issues?"

I will stress, this is not easy to comprehend or admit to, but once you do it sets you free. So to all the men on this website who have been having a difficult time making sense of what it is there wife is doing, what she's thinking, and just why we can't seem to get along or communicate anymore, I ask you, do a little homework, go to the websites that I have mentioned and spend a couple of hours looking into yourself, you just may find a few answers.

[lg193]

After starting this thread I honestly thought this might generate some honest, healthy discussion. It seems to me that the kind of honest soul searching required by this subject may be too much for some of the members on here, but let me remind you just how liberating it really is.

Food for thought: It is estimated that 50% of all marriages suffer from some form of verbal abuse and controlling behavior. What are the chances that a good amount of the members on this site have these behaviors in their lives? I'd say pretty good.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/dec/02/advertising-domestic-violence

[breakaway]

So...did your wife try to tell you all these things before she finally left you? Was her leaving you the only thing that forced you to deal with the issues?

This is a very big issue in my marriage. My H makes some effort to deal with it, but really, he doesn't want to, or can't, really face up to what he's doing and what it does to us.

He also alternates between being all happy/lovey and then using every single tactic listed in Patricia Evans' books.

I find myself at the crossroads so many times because he will improve, but then relapse..and of course, trying to talk about the relapse brings on more of the behavior.

He once found my Patricia Evans book The Verbally Abusive Relationship and completely freaked out and gave me the worst episode of verbal abuse he ever had! He also got totally drunk that day. When I tried to talk to him about it the next day, sober, I told him he had verbally abused me because he saw a book on verbal abuse, and he said Yes! I made him feel horrible!! Like that was a perfectly natural response. It doesn't even make any sense half the time. He denies he does it and then says I deserve what he's not doing.

Any advice?

[SpyBunny]

It takes a big person to admit he or she is guilty of this type of abuse. Right now, my H doesn't believe anything along these lines when I try pointing it out to him- he turns it around onto me and makes it my issue. Our best shot is having the MC, a neutral third party, point it out to him. He will be more willing to listen if it comes from somebody else whom he respects. So far, he thinks this MC might know what he is talking about (compared to the one we saw 6 or 7 years ago. The real problem was that MC#1 could see through his BS and he didn't like that!)

[iwantittowork]

I had not seen this thread lg193, or I would have replied.

I agree, and I have read those books that you mentioned, and I admit, and have admitted to W, C, L, and on this website, to being emotionally and verbally abusive in this manner. Much like you said I had thought it meant being an SOB and screaming/yelling as well.

Read SpyBunny's thread, you can see this in her H clearly, and I was no where near as bad as her H has been to her. I even admitted in her thread to doing these things in my Sitch.

I am committed to making the changes in myself from now forward. That has actually helped me hold on during this time, still living with my W while she has checked out of the marriage.

Along the journey so far, and I don't want to minimize the destruction to my marriage from this behavior, but at any given time in most peoples relationship, there is manipulation and types of emotional 'abuse' on both sides.

Not every 'silent treatment' is from one side of an relationship, and sometimes things like that are not directed at a spouse, but lack of communication can create 'abusive' situations where there are none.

I think there are subtle and not so subtle lines, and labeling everything as 'abusive' is often overkill.

Here is a situation in my sitch, overall how do you think it effected me?

I had never been someone who wanted to be 'married' I just wanted to be with someone I loved, for the rest of my life, I always have stated that through my life as well. I had taken Marriage as a 'religous' ceremony, and not placed any importance on it myself, not being a 'religous' person in the least.

I have been with my current W for 14 years now, and about 5 years ago, my W came to me and said: "If we don't get married soon, I'll have to start looking elsewhere"

At the time I was devastated, but then took it to mean, she really thought Marriage was important to her, so I was happy afterward, to make her happy and thought I was doing that.

However, throughout the last few years, that always bugged me, and now as I look at it, would you label what she said to me as abusive? I do now, as it was a pure manipulation on her part to get me to do what she wanted, and she has admitted that was a manipulation on her part.

Again, I don't discount the damage I caused, as I see so many times now that the things I did were centered from the self, and those are the things I must work on to address.

I also believe that when we finally 'get' the fact that we have been abusive, we can go far overboard in our interpretations of our past actions and label everything we have done as 'abusive' when I know that is not the case now. Keeping a clear eye on yourself and your behaviors, and where they come from is key to keeping moving forward I believe.

Good luck to you, Hope to keep in touch with other people working through this as well!

[lg193]

Breakaway, yes it took her leaving to initiate any real change, unfortunately. I tried like hell to change prior to her leaving, but in retrospect I see that it really wasn't trying. Put him onto the MEVAC website, it's mostly a group of men trying to help one another. These are men who truly want to change. Also, required reading is Controlling People, Abuse Survivors Speak Out (I think that's the title), The Verbally Abusive Relationship, and The Verbally Abusive Man...Can He Change? All books by Patricia Evans. If you read the signs he can or is changing I think you'll find what she writes to be dead on, especially compared with the signs he isn't changing. Remember though even if your husband is displaying more from the signs he isn't changing side of the spectrum that doesn't mean he can't or won't change. I know this from personal experience.

Spybunny, kind of the same thing I just wrote to breakaway, he needs to admit to this crap, do not let your husbands talk to you this way anymore, just as Patricia writes in her book, when he behaves this way just say "What?" or "What did you just say to me?" Do not put up with it. Also, as far as a therapist goes,you need to find a therapist who has specific knowledge of verbal abuse, then you can properly address all the issues.
Good luck

Wantittowork, you are right about not over analyzing the past, sometimes when we look too hard at certain situations it is easy to label everything as abuse, it is a delicate balance.Remember what you consider abusive dialogue may and probably is very different from what she labels abuse, the only way to know is to ask.

Something that I did for myself was do join a local group therapy program dealing specifically with domestic violence. This was outside of my comfort zone because I had never thought of verbal abuse and control as being domestic violence...it is.

All I can suggest to you is to read, read, and read some more, don't tell your wife about the change...show her.If it is there, she will see.

On your question about if what she did was abuse: I would have to say no, manipulation yes, abuse no. She clearly felt that being married was important to her, you did not. Because I was not there I do not know all the specifics of the conversations that the two of you had, so I will just assume that neither one of you communicated your wants and needs very well. At some point you have to sit down and say "This is what I need"

One last thing, go to the MEVAC website, join, register and begin to journal, we are all men helping men ( with the exception of a few women survivors, including my wife) We are working hard and really changing, it is possible.

[RonD]

Although it's hard to face up to, I know I've been verbally abusive. Just registered on the MEVAC website; can't wait to get off work and check it out. Thanks, lg193. A guy like me needs all the help he can get!

[breakaway]

I checked out the website. It was really amazing. Thanks for the info.

[Changes]

What website is mevac?

[RonD]

Men Ending Verbal Abuse and Control. I checked it out and found enough of myself in what they were saying to realize I have a problem. Gives me a lot of stuff to discuss with my counselor, a lot of reading and more improvement in myself to work towards.