Depressive WAW or Depressive MLC?- both with an EA

[Gynandtonix]

his is my question.
My wife has been diagnosed with depression for the second time. The first time she came off the meds too early – her choice – and has sunk into depression again. She finally went back to the docs and they upped her dose and has now been on her meds for 5 weeks. I buy her flowers each week to reward her for staying on the meds – is this a good thing?
We went through Relate last year. A few things came out of the sessions, and the counselor said that she didn't think that we needed to attend anymore, so we stopped the sessions. The few things to come out of the sessions were our lack of communication, her desire to go to college for a Degree – she had to drop this as we started a family, her perceived lack of support from myself – I allowed her room to be herself and to make her own choices and even though we 'discussed' everything it turned out she was only 'going along' with my thoughts, and the fact I could do little more around the house.
We have never raised our voices to each other.
So after the Relate she went back to college to start a Degree and has now passed the first year and is about to start the second year. We talked a lot more about our feelings -especially mine. She said that I was emotionally cold and so I have worked on this by talking a lot more – possibly I have said too much as she has now used a few of the things said against me recently, something that she has never done before. I now do a lot more around the house.
Whilst at college she became friends with a bloke who has a history of depression and mental issues. He has to have a carer whenever he leaves the house and is not allowed to drive alone. His wife in the past year has kicked him out as she was having an affair and he is living from couch to couch – he's even used mine. He has tried to self harm in the past and has also been sectioned at least once and is forever being stopped and escorted home by the police – it is a serious condition for him. Whilst being at college my wife and him became friends, and now my wife has become his carer. She is with him now almost 24/7 and is clearly having an Emotional affair – I have every proof that it isnt a physical relationship, just trust me on this.

So enough background........

6 weeks ago I took the boys swimming – and came home to an empty house. (2 boys aged 9 & 7).
A quick phone call from my wife to say that she needed her space and would be staying at her brothers for a while.
Was this a dark moment in my life or what. The pain and numbness is incredible.
Luckily I was on holiday from work for a further week, but it passed by in a drunken haze at night and the searing numbness and depression of daytime.
Communication from my wife was minimal at best, but what I received was the I am angry with you and the I love you but not in love with you conversations. She kept repeating that she had no choice but to walk out and that nothing would have changed if shed stayed.
I did the usual things like cry, be angry, think about ending it all, moving out and giving up on the marriage, plead that I will change.....ect. All I got was a blank wall of response, absolute coldness.

Moving on now to the present moment,

She has been gone for 6 weeks and has been on the meds for 5.
She has been staying at her brothers, but, so has her friend from college who has no where else to sleep except the couch. She is with him virtually 24/7 and sees more of him than her own kids. He is a huge drain upon her time and emotions and has recently confessed to 'needing to get away from him more' to a close family member. She is living in an absolute hole of a house and has no privacy, and is spending all her time running around doing small and unimportant tasks all day and has no time to herself to think -one of the reasons for her leaving was to have time to herself and to decide what she wants in life.
She is about to start her second year of college and is going to be a huge struggle for her, especially as her college timetable is clashing with the pick up times at school and my work rota.
By now her side of the family have gone from the 'we will be there for you' to the 'you should have sorted this by now' and the 'stop telling me all your problems and do something to fix them' stages.

I am a mess and living from day to day.
I either take alcohol or over the counter sleeping aids such as Melatonin, every night.
My moods are a real roller-coaster.

But the worst thing is the absolute coldness that my wife feels and has shown me. When I was in the weepy stage, it didn't even register with her, not a flicker of emotion.
I have tried the reasoning stuff – again no response, complete indifference.
She very rarely answers any texts, and doesn't respond often to my questions about how she is and she never asks how I am.

In the week before walking out , she told me that she values her vows and doesn't want to divorce me.
Since walking out she has never given me any indication about us having a future together apart from 2 comments in the past week – but she has never mentioned about wanting to be apart or a divorce. In fact she has just said nothing with regard to our future and has blanked every response.
She has refused every attempt of help from me -and it looks like from everyone else as well. She has spent the last 6 weeks doing nothing to help herself. I had been banging on about her seeing a depression counselor in the past week and she has finally seen the light and has arranged for an counseling session – but there is a 6 week waiting list.

And here is the question.
Do I have a WAW or a MLC wife with an EA ?
How do I best handle myself around her to avoid keeping the circle of blankness going?
How long do I give it ?
Money is tight and to give myself some help in starting up again I have decided to go into arrears with my mortgage and to salt away this money.
From what I have read I will never get through to her – but when we do talk to hand over the kids, we talk about the banal things in life and studiously avoid emotional issues and never mention our future.
Should I avoid bringing up the future and just talk about daily stuff and wait for her to initiate any deep conversations.
She says she is struggling being away and staying at her brothers and has considered renting a place to stay. I would see this as a long term move, especially as her EA would be sleeping on the couch. Would this be the end of the relationship or could it still be recovered?
I have tried to convince her that it would be best for her to come home and 'base herself' from home and allow her to go to college see the kids and do her 'running around' with her EA. But this was met with a blankness.

What I want is help on a strategy to best cope with my wife, her EA – who avoids even looking at me, and her illness of depression.
How long may this go on for?
What are signs that she is willing to listen to me and is thawing?

Any help, ideas, strategy's, revelations or past experiences -especially from people who have gotten back together would be gratefully accepted

Regards Gyn.

PS.
The blankness and zero responses from my wife are the hardest blows, how to avoid them please....

[TooLateForMe]

Feel your pain. I'm going through it, too.

The coldness is bad. I'm guessing it's a built-up response to the pain of guilt from hurting you. She's pulling away from the pain you show her. Sometimes you don't even know you're showing it. As hard as it is (trust me, I know) you need to show her a positive picture of yourself. Don't argue or plead. You won't win.

Count your blessings, though. My W is past the coldness and shows a lot of pride in her new-found independence. I try to be supportive but it's crushing.

Point being that your good attitude will stop the need for her to avoid you and the bad feelings.

Other people here will have better advice, but I hope this helps for now.

[KiwiMan]

Its amazing how many people are going through this. I have a WAW at the moment too, it only happened 2 weeks ago, but she is already determined to move on. I have no proof at this stage of an EA or PA.. so is hard to gauge where she is coming from. I have been only contacting her regarding the kids and nothing else since she dropped the bomb... I pleaded, cried all of that stuff.... untill I read the advice on here.. I have turned it around and I can tell she is shocked the way I handled it. I think she thought I was going to run a mile and get on a bender.. The first week seemed easier than the first as that hope starts to dwindle... but it is like the above poster said a long road... show the changes and she will notice, but it is only them that will decide to come back in the end. No amount of talking or reasoning on your part to her will help.. Sorry about your sitch... I am in the early stages myself.. Take care and vent on here.. its the best place.

[Gynandtonix]

Thank you for your kind words and thoughts.

The worst thing is not knowing where this path will lead.
There is no map for me to show what I need to do to to best resolve the situation, but,there is some very good advice on these boards;

WAW Do’s/Don’t’s
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

The advice about not pursuing is very hard, and could show that you no longer care about the WAW – after all they are looking for the negative in everything you do, but , it isn't about them, it is about gaining the mind frame to move on.

The basic philosophy that is being outlined is to stop waiting upon the WAW and simply reinvent yourself by focusing on yourself and things you can control. You can not change their mind set and so dont waste your energy.
I have decided to follow this basic outline and start a 180's list. And you know what -I already feel in more control already – only after 2 days !
I know it is too early, but, I feel more confident and sure that the path that I am about to embark upon is the correct path for myself and my children.
This is not about choosing the correct path to redemption with my WAW – she has made her choice – it is up-to her if her path will join mine in the future.

I do see nothing but hard times ahead.

She doesn't know that I am salting away money to make a cleaner break and to allow me to set up a new home for me and my boys. This I am sure will be a very big surprise for her. I feel that she expects me to hang around swinging in the wind until she decides. So I am expecting a bit of a fire storm when she finds out I am planning for a future without her. If I need to.
I am not looking forward to the lonely times at all – especially at the special holidays -Birthdays, Christmas, etc.
I need to continue in the 'strong' mind set to allow me to move on more easily, and not to pine for her for ever.
I have always tried to be open to my WAW, so the advice to become evasive but not cold is not natural to me, and so I will find this very hard.

But I will follow the basic strategy to allow me to move on when the time is right. But for now I will try everything to recover my M, and see where this leads me.

I will start upon my 180's now and will post back later.

Regards, Gyn

[Steve McQueen]

I have every proof that it isnt a physical relationship, just trust me on this.

When I was in high school, I had this girlfriend who went to this private girls school. She said she could tell if I ever cheated on her, with a public school girl, by the amount of ejaculate I came. I sometimes wonder if she ever got good at that.

[Gynandtonix]

My 180's

1/ Wear aftershave every day -each day is a special day.

2/ Learn to play the guitar – I aim for 30mins each day.

3/ Cut hair and keep it shorter than my usual style.

4/ Play a new sport – golf has been chosen. I aim to go to the driving range or putting greens once each week.

5/ Learn to flirt again.

6/ Teach kids how to ride a bike and buy bikes for the 3 of us so we can spend time riding together.

7/ Make the bed every day.

8/ Do not contact WAW first.




Now this list is not exhaustive, but they are things to make a difference in my life and so would also make me feel better.
Today is my first day of doing this and already I have started 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 and 8.
I must say that No 5 was exiting and cheeky, and I got quite a rush in chancing my arm again – especially over the frozen counter in my local store....

Regards, Gyn.

[Gynandtonix]

Having a bad day.....
I wont see my boys till Sunday - more than 48 hrs. My shift pattern is the problem

I just can not GAL today at all.
Cant get motivated..

I am going to put the money back to pay the mortgage and not start going into arrears.
I do not want the confrontation with my WAW, and would only cause distrust and anger.
This would damage and - a big if- any progress I have made in myself and my WAW.
If in the future she decides she wants a D, then I will not pay the mortgage to help finance my new home for me and the boys. I will save the confrontation for when it is needed.

Regards, Gyn

[Gynandtonix]

Mmmmmmm
Good night tonight.
I have had the kids for the past 2 days and made no contact with the WAW at all. The ONLY contact was a text @6pm to tell her to pick the kids up @7.30pm. First time that I have dictated the time to pick up the kids.
Kids were tearful at leaving, which made the WAW frustrated.
She told me about her problems at college and that this year it will be very hard for her.
I was thinking that it would be very hard for her being as she is living in a 1 room bedsit basically with 2 kids over night sharing her bed, but I kept my council and said nothing.
She asked how I was - she has asked before but today I used the PMA method.
There was a long silence - this is here I normally start the conversation, as she says that I dont talk to her enough.
This time I waited.
She talked about her day and I replied where needed in sort sentences.
She asked what I'd been upto.
So I told her that I was looking for things to do and was getting a little frustrated in learning the guitar.
She made a snide comment or two about how she was never bored in this house as she would have sorted out the rest of the spare room.
I let that one slide as it looked like it was to produce a reaction.
She then went out of her way to help me learn the guitar - found basic principle books, Cd's and some basic moves.
This is the first time in 2 months since she became a WAW that she has done anything to help me at all - and she spent 5 mins of her time doing this.

Is this a possible display of guilt over the snide comments...?

I am speechless.

Now I must try extra hard to learn the guitar and not waste her efforts - and also it will help one of my 180's and so improve my well being.
As she left I got the usual 'going through the motions' hug.
This is still a negative reaction from her and shows no affection at all. This HURTS !!


But I then told her that I appreciated her help and thoughtfulness in the guitar advice.

These are all things pointed out in the DBing principles.

I can only take these as the first baby steps where it is not all doom and gloom.
Today was the first time that she rang back and answered my text as soon as she received it.
As I hadn't contacted her by phone or by text for the past 6 days...... I wonder if this has had an effect.
Normally she just ignores my contact. Mind you it was a very business like text - no flowery stuff or personal touches.


Well as I said before, a good night for me.
I expect that tomorrow will be a return to the normal, but at least I can dream well tonight.

Today may be one that I can chalk up to the DB book.

Regards,
Gyn

[Gynandtonix]

mmmmmm.

I am trying to get out more, but instead got in touch with an old friend (female) on face book and we met up at my house...

We had a 3hr heart to heart. We both confided in each other, and I must say that it did lighten the load a little.
The WAW came round that night to pick up the kids and she was in dark mood, and no opportunity arose to tell her about my old friend coming around to talk.
Well it transpired that the kids told her all about her.
I knew that they would.

Next day me and the WAW meet up over school stuff - parents day -at the school. To everyone else she projected we were the perfect couple, but between us it was the opposite.

We go home, lots of small talk, but now we are in the company of the kids, s9 & s7, so still no time to talk.

When we were eventually alone to talk she asked straight out how was such & such (the old friend).
And then she flew off on one.
'How dare you talk to her she's my friend'
'How dare you confide in her'
'She moved in quickly when she found out I was gone'

But the problem statement was 'why did I find out from the kids? It should have been from you'

It was with this last statement that the tears come flooding out of my WAW, and she kept saying that she'd done everything to get through to me and save the marriage' - classic WAW statement.

I back slid in the next hr and texted her with 'When was I supposed to tell you about ****, at the only time we were alone you asked straight out.'

No reply - but I expected this.

The next day she texted me twice - I have had no texts from my WAW for over a week. The texts were about the kids.

Now yesterday my old friend came around and we spoke some more, and as I had arranged to go to a firework display on this Saturday, my old friend asked if she could come if she was'nt working.
I said yes and so did my boys with glee.

I have since texted my WAW to say - 'so you dont hear it from the boys first. ***** was here today, and my be going to see the fireworks on Saturday in ***********.'
No reply.

Now my WAW has not spoken to me or the boys since 3pm on Friday, and will only next see the boys and me on Monday 7.30pm.

How can any woman go this long w/o speaking to her kids?
I couldnt.

Does anyone have any experience in this sort of sitch.

I have followed the WAW 'rules' - no contact ect.
There has been no change in 4 wks of her behavior.
Could I have been going down a cheeseless tunnel?

This contact with and old friend, could it be the shake my WAW needs, or is it a step too far in the wrong direction.
This contact with my old friend will not become a PA - neither of us is looking for this at all, we just enjoy each others company.

Up until those 2 texts I received in one day, my WAW has made no effort to contact me or the kids.

I truly can not believe how selfish my WAW has become. I also believe that she is riddled with guilt and shame at how she is treating me and my boys.

I am so angry, but also racked in apprehension because I have connected to an old friend and I have some serious self doubt if it was a good move in helping to reconcile our marriage.

Regards,
Gyn

[Gynandtonix]

To ease the tension in me about meeting an old friend, I texted the WAW to confirm when she's picking up the boys and a gentle question about how she is .

She texted back confirming when she will pick up the boys, told me she was still ill and also said that she hadn't slept much and was tearful and crying all the time.

What or how do you read that. Why did she make a point about her being tearful and crying all w/e?

I then rang her to tell her about the boys, and she asked lots of questions about my old friend who came round again on Sunday.

Does my WAW see her as a threat?

Help.

Regards,
Gyn