My eyes have been opened even more and I need to write some things right now if you do not mind. I think by doing so you (readers) may have an even better understanding of my sitch. I think this has helped me understand why I have hurt so much over the last few years and hurt very badly now.
Right after my dad died, as I mentioned before, my mom was living with us and was obviously depressed as she had been for many years. My mom, like everyone, can be annoying at times by things she does or does not do. These things wore on my wife understandably and she was ready to have her house back, if you will. I was torn between "helping" my recently widowed mom and my wife's feelings. Of course, having always respected the strength of my wife, I felt she could handle things a bit longer. I was wrong.
During this time I learned that W was in phone contact with OM who she had known prior to our getting married and had spent many fun times together. She leaned on him for support and complained about her sitch at home. He was a very independent person who traveled the world for work and shared his stories (she wants to travel the world) etc.. As she began questioning her religion he seemed to support that also as a non-religious person (I am very religious). I found out that she was taking oportunities to call him when i was asleep, when she was picking the kids up from school, etc.. Yes, i was jealous because i felt he was fulfilling her emotional needs in ways i could not.
W disagreed with my interpretation and felt it was ridiculous that I would be jealous and wouuld think this was an EA (She said she could never cheat on me). In her mind, how could I be jealous of someone she could have had sex with before we were married and she did not (yes, she said that). She tried to assure me that there were no physical desires between them, they were just old friends.
I found an article in the paper about EA's and cut it out. During a MC in which we were involved, I brought this article up. The C agreed that there was an EA but my wife adamantly denied it.
Again, how could I be jealous of this friendship. Well, as I have mentioned my insecurities, one of them is jealousy. I have probably always had some jealousy in my life. Soon after our wedding i was inadevertently compared to W's prior sexual partners (She slipped and said something). I was hurt and then always wondered, for years, how I compared after that. W has since said it is ridiculous that i should have felt that way because almost everyone has prior sexual partners before married. The issue was, I did not. I waited for marriage.
All of this has helped contribute to my already jealous nature over the years. Then when she left our religion, hurting me and the kids, I felt if she could change her religion, no matter how much it affected me and the kids, because it was her "journey", I wondered if she could more easily leave me.
So, after feeling like my wife was involved with an EA, being told I had held her back for years(heard that right before I learned of OM), and having her change our family greatly with her change in religious participation, I was devestated. I feel like she did not appreciate my feelings, especially about the OM, downplaying my feelings to being insecure. This, I think, is the main area where she sees me as being week.
The verbal abuse I have referred to has come from a frustration of these issues. Trying to defend myself and the kids and how I felt we were affected has been wrong. I take responsibility for that. Hurt feelings and grief led to my anger. I try to fix things and as I tried hard to fix things I never could, I pushed the limits.
So, today I am certain she is still in contact with OM as a friend, both by phone and by e-mail. I do not think W believes there is any issue because the OM is now married (Well, so is she).
Bottom line, right now I hurt because W distrusts me so much for the verbal abuse I participated in that she is not even sure she wants to try and repair our R. She distrusts me but if I lost trust in her, I am unreasonable, jealous and insecure.
Whether she views her actions as innocent and trustworthy (I do not deny she does view it as that), they have negatively affected me over the last few years. The issue is, in her view, and maybe she is right, they are issues because I am weak, overly sensitive and inherently jealous.
This may sound silly but I totally love her and want to be with her. I just don't think she feels the same. I believe in the sanctity of marriage and know what great times we have had and can have. I should not be compared to OM in any way to OM.
Sorry for the long post. I had to get it off my chest.
I think you are going through the same thing lots of us have and are.
Thanks for being open about it.
My recommendation would be similar to everyone elses here. It all stems around 3 things.
1) Stop the pursuit. This is the list that Sandi gave you. It is critical. If you pursue, your wife will run. If you stop, then you have time and space to fix things.
2) Really look inward and determine where and why you were doing things to harm your W and your R. You talk about verbal abuse - well do whatever it takes to stop. This also means digging inward and ridding yourself of the core reasons behind it.
3) Detach so that you can really look at things more clearly. Know that you will be OK whatever happens.
4) Man-up and learn to be strong and independent. Learn to stand up for yourself and speak out without being angry or resentful. Take a firm, strong, tough-love stand on the EA. "I know and agree that our M has issues and that your R with OM is not the cause of those issues, but your R with OM is THE immediate barrier to us being able to solve those issues. I will not share you with any other man. You are an adult and can choose to have this R with him, but you may not do that AND be married to me at the same time..."
This all takes time. Step 1 buys that time. Steps 2 and 3 get You to where you need to be to be able to lead. In step 4 you start leading in the way your wife needs you to.
Good luck and stay strong.
Lean us here when you need it.
- Thinker
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I think you are going through the same thing lots of us have and are.
Thanks for being open about it.
My recommendation would be similar to everyone elses here. It all stems around 3 things.
1) Stop the pursuit. This is the list that Sandi gave you. It is critical. If you pursue, your wife will run. If you stop, then you have time and space to fix things.
2) Really look inward and determine where and why you were doing things to harm your W and your R. You talk about verbal abuse - well do whatever it takes to stop. This also means digging inward and ridding yourself of the core reasons behind it.
3) Detach so that you can really look at things more clearly. Know that you will be OK whatever happens.
4) Man-up and learn to be strong and independent. Learn to stand up for yourself and speak out without being angry or resentful. Take a firm, strong, tough-love stand on the EA. "I know and agree that our M has issues and that your R with OM is not the cause of those issues, but your R with OM is THE immediate barrier to us being able to solve those issues. I will not share you with any other man. You are an adult and can choose to have this R with him, but you may not do that AND be married to me at the same time..."
This all takes time. Step 1 buys that time. Steps 2 and 3 get You to where you need to be to be able to lead. In step 4 you start leading in the way your wife needs you to.
I'm not saying that you didn't "verbally abuse" your wife or otherwise treat her in less than a loving fashion, you undoubtedly did. Know what? I treat my wife badly sometimes. She treats me badly sometimes. Neither of us always speak the others love language. We fight. We crab at each other. Show me a marriage that doesn't involve some conflict.
Those things occur, but it's when you are looking at your spouse while "in love" that you don't feel you can never trust them again. You don't feel mortally wounded by harsh words. She is looking at you from non-loving eyes and so every negative thing you ever did is somehow a deal breaker. This negativity is amplied many fold when your spouse is involved with someone else.
Given her history of dealing with problems in your marriage (by turning to another guy...not a girl friend), I also suspect she's doing it again. Get a key logger program and check the phone records on line. It doesn't radically change your approach, which is to focus on your own improvements, but it would explain a lack of progress. If you are doing everything you can to be a better man and correct your mistakes, it's her problem if she doesn't see it or appreciate it. You have to let her go. Tell yourself that it's over, she wants out, and you can't keep her if she doesn't want to be with you. She'll feel the difference between how you are now and how you are when you've let her go.
If she shows you any kind of "baby step" don't get excited and start doing your own pursuing. In times like these, you need much more than baby steps. You need to see giant leaps. Besides, babysteps are easily overinterpreted.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
If she shows you any kind of "baby step" don't get excited and start doing your own pursuing. In times like these, you need much more than baby steps. You need to see giant leaps. Besides, babysteps are easily overinterpreted.
Boy, ain't THAT the truth. "Baby steps" is probably the most overrated (and misunderstood) concept on this entire forum!
OK. Ya there have been some baby steps (she texted me, on her own, that she loved me, has kissed my lips and hugged me a few times recently) but thanks to the site and the DR book, i am not getting too excited. That has helped a lot not to get my hopes up. If I were too, I am certain my hopes would be dashed.
Sandi, You are so insightful. With her seeing me as weak/ insecure she has tired of feeling she is responsible for my happiness. Along with that she has said that she does not trust me and that I will verbally abuse her again and she is not sure she even wants things to work out with us. She has commented on the positive changes i have made but basically says that she is not sure she knows what she wants now. In other words, from what she says, I could become the model husband and she is not sure that will be enough to save the M. Too little, too late. That is a hard pill to swallow.
