Sorry that you find yourself here. I would agree with others on the board. The support here has helped me so much.
You are, unfortunately, in the early stages on MLC. It's long and it is painful. Some of us have been trying/working for a long time.
One of the things I learned over time is not to take things so personally. When I began to realize that H had created his own mess and I did not have to help him clean it up, I must say that things began to seem different for me. I had less anger towards him when I realized that much of what has happened has less to do with me and more to do with him.
M: 16 years Bomb 4/07 OW 20s long gone Divorced 11/09 I remarried New Guy Cooperative r w/X regarding D
Wow...I'm feeling the love, only other place I have received that kind of attention lately is from my kids...and the dog!
I do want to sincerely thank each and every one of you for the support and words of wisdom that you all have provided. I have made many mistakes in the first 11 months of this ordeal and I'm sure I will make many many more. Fortunately from what I hear I will have plenty of time to practice and get it all right.
Nice comment Jack....I wish I could say that (blow me) and get away with it. We are off and on sleeping in the same bed and I don't think I would be waking up with all of my parts if I used your recommendation. Going on 12 mos since this whole thing really hit the fan and there have been two times (in the same week) where we ML(talk about a drought.) OK, more like it was just sex, not very good either, kinda like what I would imagine it would be like if I paid for it. Funny thing is after I caught her red handed lying about the EA she offered twice over the next couple of weeks, but I turned it down citing that I would only do it again when it would be because we both wanted it...not for pity or sympathy. Wow...almost embarassing to call myself a male after that. Still I don't want it used as a tool. Than again I wonder if I was playing a game and using it as a tool?
I also have another question....should I or should I not confront her on EA that she claims to "be over." Yet, she keeps hanging herself and it clearly shows that she continues to pursue to keep some type of friendship going. She is sneaking around in her efforts to do this and apparently thinks I am a total fool. After the first time I confronted her with hard evidence (after many previous denials) she asked me what I wanted and I said well it would be nice if you stopped contacting him. After the second confrontation a couple of weeks later, (the day after she kept talking about him in her sleep), I suggested maybe removing him as a Facebook friend mighta been a first step. I also asked if she was still talking on the phone or texting him, she claimed no. I asked to see her phone records...and imagine that there was his number all over. blah, blah, blah later it was my fault and really I don't care and don't feel threatened. We have had issues getting viruses on two of our other computers in our home and while trying to clear them I was going through the history to see exactly what websites my darling, innocent 14 & 16 year old boys were going too. (Hey, I had hormones too before all of this started thankyouverymuch - see above.)
Guess what...I know many will be quite surprised but she was still searching for him and contacting him even though she finally did remove him from her friends list. She claims that she wasn't really contacting him the 10 or so times she had searched for him over the past couple of weeks, instead she was just trying to set me up to catch me snooping. Thank god, that is all it was, I feel so much better. My response was just go and figure out who and what you want. I guess my main question is...Do I just stop questioning, I mean really do know I just have a hard time with the feeling that she thinks I am that stupid.
I really do struggle with the validation part of this all and as well, not discussing "the relationship." I also struggle with the emotional aspects of it all, the impact it has on my kids, the fact my daughter requested and was put on anti-depressents. I think thats why I keep battling instead of validating because of the kids.
My take on all of this is that this is really not my wife...in fact I don't like this person very much at the moment. She is a fake trying to be someone she wasn't allowed to be while growing up. Still, I do love her though and recognize what she is going through as an illness. If this illness were cancer....would I abandon her? I know I wouldn't, so I'm in this for the long haul, knowing I need all of the help and support I can get and that is why I finally decided to come out of the shadows.
Thanks again for all of your wisdom, hugs, love and support and what seems a little whacked to know I am not unique in this that there are many of us going through all of this.
SN
Me:48 W:49 M:21 S19,D19,S16,S16 11/2/08: ILYBIDLY EA Suspected: 12/09 EA Confronted: 3/09,5/09,7/09 denied everytime! EA Confirmed: 8/09
Let me ask you something, SN. How's that going for you, confronting her about the EA?
Here's the thing - she is not worried at all about whether you are stupid or not. She is thinking about herself and what she wants because that's what they do.
So, to answer your question, what are you hoping to accomplish by asking about the EA? Are you hoping she'll tell the truth? Not gonna happen now. Are you hoping she says, yes, I am having an EA and I am so sorry? Not gonna happen now. Get what I'm saying?
Do not worry about appearing stupid. Just live your life. Start to think about what changes you want to make for you. Start to move forward in your life.
Going on 12 mos since this whole thing really hit the fan
It was 15 months for me post bomb that H moved out. Slept in same bed too (no ml though).
I can't really speak to the sex thing with any authority b/c H and I have gone there only a couple of times in over 2 1/2 years. In my case I'm not aware of anyone else (no, I'm not naive, but I am astute).
Quote:
After the second confrontation a couple of weeks later, (the day after she kept talking about him in her sleep),
Has she ever talked in her sleep before? I could be way off base here but she may not have had the stones to do it any other way. Does she have a passive/aggressive bone?
Quote:
instead she was just trying to set me up to catch me snooping.
Dude. of course she was <ack,ack> . Nice to see that turnip truck didn't lose it's load
Doesn't matter if she thinks you're stupid (btw, she knows you aren't). You know you're not (at first I tended to second guess myself) and going through this you will know more and more about your own strengths, weaknesses and passions. and what an amazing man you really are.
Validating comes like everything, with practice. It's like with your kids, just reflect back what they said so they know you "get it".
Don't battle b/c of the kids (I know the inclination), validating what she says even if you don't agree (I really work at not addressing any provocative statements) just means you heard it. Nothing more. That is in your kids best interest b/c if you two can communicate better (even sometimes) the kids win.
Glad you came into the party, dark and twisted as it may be.
Confrontations are no fun, and they are, for the most part, wholly unproductive. Maybe even counterproductive.
Standing your ground on what is right and what is true. THAT you can do.
It's a simple principle. I don't share my wife with another man (or woman should it come to that). Period.
Playing emotional tag through facebook, twitter, text messages, email, whatever, it's all sharing time, emotion, thoughts, feelings, that are supposed to be shared with YOU.
As long as that's going on, there is no marriage.
You don't play by the rules, you lose priveliges.
It's not pre-school all over with you playing the role of teacher. It's you being an honest man who is trying to live his life with a certain degree of integrity, insisting that your wife do the same if she expects to continue taking part in the priveliges of marriage.
You will need to find your kahuna's during this mess.
And you will have to learn how to use them properly.
This is not about being the tough guy.
This is about being a MAN.
EA's lead to PA's. Duh.
Work on yourself. And I don't mean that in some pat, cliche way like telling you to "have a good day." I mean that as an exhortation, kind of like when I scream at my football players to "DO IT RIGHT FOR GOD's SAKE!!"
Your advantage in this mess is that she wants little to nothing to do with you. So take advantage of your advantage. You've got flaws, bad habits. You've fallen short in some ways of being the man you always thought you would be, but you were so busy being husband and Dad that you figured you just had to roll with it.
Well no more.
Get to work.
Stay away from the crap.
Don't try to convince her she's right. Or wrong.
YOU
You
you
The only thing you CAN be responsible for.
The only thing you CAN change.
The only thing you CAN do something about.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
SN- She is reliving the teen years. She is re-figuring out who she is, who she wants to be. Since you've had and are having experience with teens-think of her as one. Care for her as you do your children but don't let her manipulate you, don't let her push the limits. Tough, detached love. Its not personal. This need to go through MLC probably began somewhere in her upbringing/youth.
It sucks to be the one watching, but she is not going through this because of who you are, she is going through this because she doesn't know who she is...
Snooping is hard to resist, but try. Confrontations just create bad feelings and push her further away. Be the one person she wants to get the love from(it'll happen down the road). Be the stable adult and hold down the fort(I know it doesn't feel fair at all).
M44 H46 T21 Married 16y D14 D12 Bomb 12/08(EA), (PA/Separation)1/09 to 5/09 Home/MC 5/09 to 12/09 Leaves 12/09 Files for Divorce Divorce final 6/30/10.
"Blow me", shouldn't be the literal translation, but a foundation of your deciscion not to move out. She is the one who 'wants' change...let her move out if it comes to that.
On most things...when you are 'standing' (which is a nicer way of saying suffering with dignity) I say roll over, accept what you can, and tolerate what you never thought you could for as long as you can.
These are her morals that are being broken and bent...not yours. So you can suffer it. And you can forgive...at least you'd better be able to otherwise, quit now and don't waste your time or hers. You need to figure that out, if you can forgive...which means moving past and not bringing it up in later agruments as ammo. For her part, more than likely, she isn't going to believe you will be capable of this, I don't know of any MLCer who thought this was possible at first.
You are going to feel like a doormat...others will call you a doormat, perhaps even some here. You want to be married? I say F them. Live for your goal, not how others will think you should live.
To that end...stop confiding in immediate friends and family. They are going to want you to not hurt. So they are going to give you advice designed to make the hurting stop ASAP. Divorce.
Their advice isn't wrong...it is just geared toward what they think is best for you.
Keeping your friends and family in your turmoil also makes it amazingly hard for the MLCer to come back. Think about it. What if everyone you knew knew of a terrible choice you made, and the suffering you caused in friends of theirs. Even if you regretted your choice and apologized, how would their judgement weigh upon you?
You are geting some amazing advice, almost like the distilled version of the Resource thread. Absorb it.
A few last points.
You admitted to looking at yourself. GOOD.
What are you currently working on within yourself that you did not like...just one or two things please. And...keep it down to one or two things...any more and you'll eventually get overwhelmed and likely quit making vital changes.
Be careful...you are vulnerable. You are going to meet some amazing people here and in your life who have similar stories and experiences, easy to talk to and understanding...keep your eye on your goal.
Keep your kids out of this, you are their support, no tthe other way around, do not talk poorly of her to them...defend her from them...sucks...its not fair. Boo-hoo. Cry me a river, I don't live in the castle I wanted when I was a kid either.
Last.
Strive to be the man you aspire to. 'He' is who you will become. You can always do better so strive to match his pace.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Confrontations are no fun, and they are, for the most part, wholly unproductive. Maybe even counterproductive.
Standing your ground on what is right and what is true. THAT you can do.
It's a simple principle. I don't share my wife with another man (or woman should it come to that). Period.
Playing emotional tag through facebook, twitter, text messages, email, whatever, it's all sharing time, emotion, thoughts, feelings, that are supposed to be shared with YOU.
As long as that's going on, there is no marriage.
You don't play by the rules, you lose priveliges.
It's not pre-school all over with you playing the role of teacher. It's you being an honest man who is trying to live his life with a certain degree of integrity, insisting that your wife do the same if she expects to continue taking part in the priveliges of marriage.
You will need to find your kahuna's during this mess.
And you will have to learn how to use them properly.
This is not about being the tough guy.
This is about being a MAN.
EA's lead to PA's. Duh.
Work on yourself. And I don't mean that in some pat, cliche way like telling you to "have a good day." I mean that as an exhortation, kind of like when I scream at my football players to "DO IT RIGHT FOR GOD's SAKE!!"
Your advantage in this mess is that she wants little to nothing to do with you. So take advantage of your advantage. You've got flaws, bad habits. You've fallen short in some ways of being the man you always thought you would be, but you were so busy being husband and Dad that you figured you just had to roll with it.
Well no more.
Get to work.
Stay away from the crap.
Don't try to convince her she's right. Or wrong.
YOU
You
you
The only thing you CAN be responsible for.
The only thing you CAN change.
The only thing you CAN do something about.
Blessings,
Bill
What Bworl said. ^
If you DO end up in a convo about OM, it's best you don't make it about HER, as that will come across as "demands" and being "controlling."
If you make it about YOU, and what YOU need, then they are "boundaries of personal integrity."
Examples:
"I forbid you to see OM" = CONTROLLING
"I can't live in an open marriage" = BOUNDARY
"You need to check in with me every day, and give me your cellphone bill!" = CONTROLLING
"In order to feel safe in our reconciliation, considering your recent affair, I need to know that you're no longer talking or texting him by having the cellphone bill come to me for awhile" = BOUNDARY
"You can't talk to me that way!" = CONTROLLING
"I like ME too much to allow myself to be spoken to so disrespectfully. Please come back when you've calmed down, and we can talk further." = BOUNDARY
Make sense?
It's also HOW you say it. It should come across as something you HATE to have to even ASK for, and that you'll COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND if she doesn't feel she can do it, but hey -- this is what I need right now. Let me know."
And for god's sakes, if you ARE going to address it, don't do it in a "it would be nice if you wouldn't ...." way -- that, I'm sure, came across as WEAK.
I would agree with everyone else as well about not moving out of the house. I'm not the one trying to "find myself" or "trying to figure out what I want." I know what I want and I know what I need and that is at home, so that is where I will stay.
As far as coming across as weak my "it would be nice if you wouldn't..." comment was actually dripping with sarcasm (yeah I need to watch that) to her and unfortunately that doesn't always come across in written conversations.
I hear what you are saying with boundries and it is something that will have a great deal of difficulty associated with it and us. Control issues have always been a hot button with my wife....dating back to feeling controlled by her mom, which caused eating disorders way back when in her youth. It is something I don't think she has ever really had a handle on. It is her issue that she has to deal with but at times, it becomes our issue since she tends to project that I am controlling onto me at times. That tends to be more of a situation where she trys to control me and when she is not successful takes great offense and claims I am trying to control her. The cycle also continues with our children and they are just now starting to rebel against her efforts to control them. I let them know that they have to have that discussion with mom at this time. I digress however and tend to feel that is an issue she is going to have to deal with eventually, but it is not my focus at this time. Its about me....right? What I can do, what I need to do and what I have to do to move on with my life.
SN
Me:48 W:49 M:21 S19,D19,S16,S16 11/2/08: ILYBIDLY EA Suspected: 12/09 EA Confronted: 3/09,5/09,7/09 denied everytime! EA Confirmed: 8/09
