thoughts about WAS

[undrdg]

So i am sitting here being my own worst enemy and thinking things. Why this, why that, why me, etc. Everything in this forum makes perfect sense.
The equation is always the same with some variations, but generally looks something like this:
1. married for x number of years.
2. something causes the WAS to leave.
3. LBS is devastated and wants WAS back.
4. LBS finds the DR book.
5. DB starts happening.
6. (this is where it variates) DB works the way the LBS thinks it does, or it works the way DB says it will.

Number 6 is very interesting to me because the DB book basically says, work on bettering yourself. If you spouse likes what he or she sees, then they may come back to you, if they don't, then you are in a better place because you worked on yourself.

However, this just dawned on me. It seems for the most part, that LBS are the main cause of the entire problem to begin with. Sure it takes 2 to tango, but it seems to me that the other person is just playing the cards that were dealt to them.
Seems that LBS always do something to cause the WAS phenomenon, or rather don't do something. Why is that?

I hate to be negative about this, but i feel like i am being realistic about most situations here, mine included. The only thing I can think of is that LBS are the WAS first, but don't have the guts to say so. They stay home and pitch a tent in all the negativity of the marriage and seem to expect the other half to fix the situation. When the situation gets to the point of no return, that's when LBS start the action.

Why do we let it get to the point of no return?
Are we so selfish that we always want our way?
Why can't we let them go?
Why are our spouses the last people that need to feel happiness?
Why do we torture ourselves into changing just so that we can have what we always had right in front of us?

I am very discouraged by the success rate of people that come to this forum and successfully bust a divorce and live happily ever after.

The whole idea of marriage reconciliation seems like a pipe dream at time. Sure there are some that are able to achieve this, but the majority of people that come to this forum, myself included, learn that it is an uphill climb that is most of the time a cheeseless tunnel when it comes to fixing a marriage.

I have nothing but respect for those people that have gone against all odds and reestablished that elusive link we all call love. I wish i could follow in your footsteps.

Alas all i can really say about Dbing, is that if i was a better person to begin with, i would not be in this position.

Why would a spouse that has been hurt so much even want to consider putting themselves through the possibility of being unhappy again, when there are soooo many options in this world that could bring them happiness without the heartache?
IS it because we swore an oath? So what? What does that even mean? Does it even matter? Who is going to get killed if that oath isn't fulfilled?
Is it because we don't want to dissapoint our families?
Is it because we are ashamed of what we did?
At what point do we actually sit down and consider the other person's feeling in this whole matter?

We are so caught up in fixing ourselves that we do not see the damage the other person goes through.

Things like detaching and galing are all geared to work on ourselves, but what about them?

Are we being selfish by wanting them back? Why can't we let them go?

God i am being so negative right now. I feel like a box of rocks saying these things, but it is how i feel.

These thoughts permeate through my brain and i can't seem to shake them.

Being alone sucks the life out of me.

i want to be stable.

I want to be a good person.

most of all i want a time machine to go back in time and bitch slap myself for being such an idiot.

/rant.

[Coach]

I want to be a good person.

What would that person be doing?

How would they act?

What would they be thinking?

How would they take care of themselves?

How would they love?

How would that person handle it?

Cheers

[june72]

I have thought also that the forum can bring you down, in a way, when you see all the posts here, but I think many people that are on the road to recovery do not continue to post. Or, perhaps, that most people often do not go over to read the piercing section.

I say this with much hesitation but I think that my marriage is on the mend. I was told, repeatedly, that I was hated, not even liked as a friend and it was so over. (In house separation). It's been 15 months but I have made huge changes and I now see him also making changes.

I do think it would be very hard when there is an affair happening.

I tried to find the exact percentage of people who remarry their spouse after divorce but had no luck. I think the number is 10-20% if I am right. So that also is hope.

Just my thoughts....

[tristan]

If you are looking for something positive, this was just posted by robx. There is always hope.

Update on my situation: the other day my wife called me at work, told me she would pick up the kids from school because she was getting off work early and had the time to do it and and asked if she could join us for supper, I said that was fine and I appreciated her help. I came home and was surprised to open the door to the smell of an incredible home cooked meal and I will tell you that hasn't happened in our home for a very long time. I had the children say grace and to include "thanking mommy" for this wonderful supper. I thanked her as well for the great supper. I was especially hungry and smelling that food was incredible and she mentioned a few times she made things a special way because she knew I liked such & such, etc. We had a great evening & night together with great conversation without any relationship talk, just enjoying our time together. We went out for some icecream later and a walk, september is just beautiful, it's like a second summer, I couldn't have pictured a better day with the way it turned out.

I wish every other db'er out there, the same results.
They are obtainable through hard work, determination and knowing how to set goals without focusing on the obstacles along the way.

[Deep]

I can't say I agree with a few points there. I for one, had no idea what DB was until I was into what would qualify as the piecing phase.

Both parties would normally contribute to problems in an M. Alot of the time, communication is a big issue. But to say an LBS is the main cause of the problem? Maybe, it could be said that the perception of the WAS leads to the LBS being the main cause of the problem.

Sure, there are always exceptions, but many LBS are guilty of being little more than humans with failings while their WAS goes on a delusion-charged life of fantasy. The LBS moves on because he has to move on. He DBs his ass off to try and get through somehow, in a scenario where he has little control. And if circumstances aren't favourable, then indeed, he emerges stronger even if the M collapses.

You wouldn't be in this position if you were a better person already? Aside from the logical fallacies, a hormonal / MLC driven spouse will find everything wrong with you even if you were Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama rolled into one.

The thinking that there is a "Mr. Right" out there is an immature one. As they say, Mr. Right is Mr. Right Now.

Commitment is the most underrated romantic virtue. It just doesn't sound very fun, sexy, or romantic.

[Coach]

You wouldn't be in this position if you were a better person already? Aside from the logical fallacies, a hormonal / MLC driven spouse will find everything wrong with you even if you were Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama rolled into one.

Would that make you the "Talai Mama" ?!

[Deep]

I'll have to meditate on the answer ...

or pray ... or both!

[DanceQueen]

undrdg - I do get what you are saying, and my own sitch is somewhat an example of it.

My H and I were married for 15 years. I walked away. At first he and I both agreed to work on getting back together. But then, he just stopped pursuing that option, out of the blue, and about a year later we were divorced.

So what really happened was something like what you are describing. My H at first thought he wanted to keep me, stay married, "win me back" or whatever. But once he had a bit of his own freedom (with me moved out) and really reflected on our relationship, he decided he didn't want it any more either. He finally realized how unhappy he had also been during our marriage, and to be honest, I believe he was actually grateful that I had left, because even though he was unhappy he would have never left. He basically secretly hoped I would be the one to lower the boom, and I did finally. Then he got to be free of the "bad guy" title of being the one who left.

Now...I think only a portion of situations are like mine, while most others really could probably be divorce-busted. I guess it all depends on the "truth" in your sitch. The "truth" in my sitch was that my ex-H, the LBS, was just as unhappy as I was in our marriage and he chose to let it die when given the chance to revive it.

DQ

[Dia]

Hmmm, the 'it's mostly the WAS' fault' doesn't jive with my sitch either, not even the 'it's all about the WAS' part.

I've used the coffee example before for a measure of how bad things had gotten, but I'll repeat it here with an extra bit.

For the vast majority of our marriage, H hated dark roast coffee. He wanted a mild, medium roast and not too strong either. I'm the one one who made the coffee about 90% of the time, and I love a rich, strong dark roast. He griped and complained if I bought dark roast, so I always bought what he wanted and made it his way. When I've mentioned the coffee before, it's been to say that when you're down to resentment squabbles over friggen coffee, things are already BAD.

Well, near the end, I was tired of never being able to drink the coffee *I* like. So I bought, made and enjoyed a good dark roast from Seattle's Best. And I got the gripey lecture about how he hates that kind of coffee, I was so selfish and it was all about me.

Would someone explain how, if he gets to drink his preferred coffee 364 days out of the year, it could be all about me? Kinda sounds like it's more about *him*.

And how is it that wanting my kind of coffee once in awhile makes me selfish? Why does he get the only vote on the coffee, and why does it become so personal so fast if I like something a little different? And just who is the controlling one here?

When H and I separated, I thought it was mostly his fault. Not all, but mostly.

Now I know that I was wrong.

I can't assign portions of fault in our sitch, not even to say that it was 50-50. I don't think blame or fault can even be quantified like that. We BOTH caused the problem. Evenly, fluidly and enmeshedly (if that's a word). In our sitch at least, I don't think assigning blame in portions or otherwise is realistic or helpful. As long as either one of us is blaming the other AT ALL, we're not fixing things, we're not loving each other, we're not taking responsibility for our own side of the mess and we're not moving forward.

To say, "this hurt me," is not blame. To say, "I was wrong when I did X," is not blame. I've found it FAR more helpful to take responsibility for my own sh*%, to understand and forgive, and to express my feelings (this hurts me) than to express blame or even to worry or think about blame.

Edit: Perhaps I am reading more into the comments here than people intended re: who contributes 'most' to the problem. If so, I apologize. Thing is, I still think that analyzing the issue of 'most' is not productive - at least not in my sitch.

[tristan]

Hmmm, the 'it's mostly the WAS' fault' doesn't jive with my sitch either, not even the 'it's all about the WAS' part.

I've used the coffee example before for a measure of how bad things had gotten, but I'll repeat it here with an extra bit.

For the vast majority of our marriage, H hated dark roast coffee. He wanted a mild, medium roast and not too strong either. I'm the one one who made the coffee about 90% of the time, and I love a rich, strong dark roast. He griped and complained if I bought dark roast, so I always bought what he wanted and made it his way. When I've mentioned the coffee before, it's been to say that when you're down to resentment squabbles over friggen coffee, things are already BAD.

Well, near the end, I was tired of never being able to drink the coffee *I* like. So I bought, made and enjoyed a good dark roast from Seattle's Best. And I got the gripey lecture about how he hates that kind of coffee, I was so selfish and it was all about me.

Would someone explain how, if he gets to drink his preferred coffee 364 days out of the year, it could be all about me? Kinda sounds like it's more about *him*.

And how is it that wanting my kind of coffee once in awhile makes me selfish? Why does he get the only vote on the coffee, and why does it become so personal so fast if I like something a little different? And just who is the controlling one here?

When H and I separated, I thought it was mostly his fault. Not all, but mostly.

Now I know that I was wrong.

I can't assign portions of fault in our sitch, not even to say that it was 50-50. I don't think blame or fault can even be quantified like that. We BOTH caused the problem. Evenly, fluidly and enmeshedly (if that's a word). In our sitch at least, I don't think assigning blame in portions or otherwise is realistic or helpful. As long as either one of us is blaming the other AT ALL, we're not fixing things, we're not loving each other, we're not taking responsibility for our own side of the mess and we're not moving forward.

To say, "this hurt me," is not blame. To say, "I was wrong when I did X," is not blame. I've found it FAR more helpful to take responsibility for my own sh*%, to understand and forgive, and to express my feelings (this hurts me) than to express blame or even to worry or think about blame.

Edit: Perhaps I am reading more into the comments here than people intended re: who contributes 'most' to the problem. If so, I apologize. Thing is, I still think that analyzing the issue of 'most' is not productive - at least not in my sitch.

Very well put.