Tricked into seperation

[lonelywolf]

My story is here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1800530#Post1800530

Not much has changed. I was basically tricked (through lies) into separating. I've tried going silent (last resort), and it seemed to be doing some good, but this week I screwed up and for whatever reason felt the need to talk to my kids on the phone (her parents have started screening calls to make sure I can't get a hold of anyone there).

I did propose to her that we wait one year, to let me prove I can reform. Instead, I got this:

The kids are getting along fine here. Patrick has stopped pooping his pants, and they are minding well thanks to having some personal space and some adequate adult supervision. They seem to be responding well to the personal attention paid them by me and my parents.

With the help of my parents, I am able to exercise some, and have some time of my own, away from the kids. It works wonders for my morale and well being. It is also nice to have an adult to talk to and consult with as I care for the kids.

I am glad to hear you are happier than ever. What specifically are you repenting of? Have you visited your bishop and confessed? Has he given you a program of repentance to follow? Frankly I am skeptical, Two months of repentance doesn't seem enough after 11 years of out of control spending, pretty much ignoring me and the kids in favor of total strangers on internet chat boards, and throwing temper tantrums which frightened both me and the kids and had me wondering about you.

My future plans do not include moving to Alaska to live in your parent’s house. I plan to remain here in Arizona and file for divorce. I no longer love you, and I no longer want to put up with your bad behavior towards me and the kids. You proved to me over 11 years of marriage that you don't love me or the kids. You never consulted me on your decisions. You spent money without asking my opinion. You spent lots of money on yourself. I bought used clothing on Ebay to keep the children in clothes. I scrimped by while you spent a lot of money that we didn’t have. Your idea of a wife was some one to take care of your needs but not to have a true life partnership with much less a companion. I and the children are happier without you.
Please be aware that you are not welcome at my parent’s house.

I will not talk to you on the phone. I cannot take your verbal abuse and guilt and cleave unto your husband nonsense. If you want to communicate with me, send me an email. I would like to ask that you don’t make them any promises or try to get at me through them though. I have not and don’t plan to bad mouth you or your parents in front of the children, and I would appreciate it if you would do the same for me. For their sake let’s try to be civil about this. Also I would appreciate it if you would stop flooding my email, my parents email, and my phone and my parent’s phone with angry messages since this
could be construed as a type of harassment.

It's all around 10% true, but she's exaggerated it all beyond what's real. She's created a monster in her mind, and she's going to divorce that monster. It's too bad that involves also divorcing me.

The worst thing I have against me, as I said in my initial post, is that her parents have pretty much always hated me, and they are clearly encouraging her to leave me. I can't counteract that.

I guess it's time to go completely dark. And get a lawyer.

[Lostforwords]

Wolf,
She isn't letting you talk to your children at all? Going dark is good, but that doesn't mean not talk with your children also. Don't feel bad about trying to talk with them. In the last call, did you get to talk with them? Or did it just turn into a conversation with your wife?

I would get proactive in defending yourself and your rights as a father? With you not seeing them or talking with them regularly, her lawyer could twist everything to look like you abandoned them. Be careful....it sounds more like your wife is taking aggressively hostile advice from her parents than anything else.

[BeginningAgain]

I agree with Lost. You need to maintain positive contact with your kids. I would stress to your wife that you want to maintain regular scheduled contact with the kids. Can you arrange to get them a cell phone that you could call them on, maybe one of those ones where they are preloaded with minutes. Then you would not need to go through your wife or her parents to speak with them, reducing their appearance of "harassment". Are you in Alaska and their in Arizona? If so, what are your plans for physical contact with them?

S4H

[lonelywolf]

I have been sending them letters in the mail every week, as well as weekly video messages. My wife says she's letting the kids get them, but I don't know for sure.

No, I have not been able to talk to the kids on the phone. Her parents have the ringer turned off and screen their calls. When I left a message (very calmly) saying, "I would like to talk to the kids please" apparently her mother told her I left an abusive message on the phone (see end of e-mail above).

So, no. She also said (in an earlier e-mail) if I tried to come down to AZ, she and the kids would vanish.

I really need a lawyer, despite being unable to afford one. Anyone know a good divorce lawyer in AZ?

[BeginningAgain]

You're damn right you need a lawyer. Unless you have been abusive to your kids, she has no right to keep them from you. Basically what she is threatening is child abduction.

S4H

[Lostforwords]

Wolf,

I just went back and read all of your old posts....I would beg and plead everybody to get cash for a lawyer yesterday. You are being setup big time in my opinion. I would assume you have got paper copies of any and all communications between your wife and yourself. If not..get them printed. She has already threatened you with kidnapping your children! The request for pay stubs for health insurance...maybe for insurance, but more than likely for some financial calculations by her lawyer paid for by mom and dad. From what I see, this divorce is being driven without a doubt by her parents.

I hope you have opened your own private checking account. I would do it if you haven't and then only transfer money into the joint account as needed. Whether you trust her about spending money on the kids or not, she could just go out and clean you out at a moment's notice.

I second sending the kids a prepaid cell phone by certified or registered mail to confirm receipt. I would add a very nice note scheduling a time when you will call that number. I would be very doubtful that the children are seeing the letters or videos...more than likely Gramma is depositing them into the trash. Make copies of everything you send in the package....then call as YOU scheduled! If you call and they don't answer...it is safe to say that the children are not receiving anything from you and your lawyer will love that. If they do answer, you get to talk to your children. A win-win for you either way.

I see this being a tough application for DB'ing...it really might not be your relationship that is the problem. More than likely it is parents who have never approved of you and through years of continual harassment have eroded your relationship to nothing in your wife's eyes. Get a lawyer now so they don't have to play catch up with your wife's lawyer. You have what...two weeks to prepare yourself legally. If you continue to wait...I am sure you will end up getting a letter in the mail with all kinds of ridiculous things she wants...or her mom wants may be a better way of putting it.

[lonelywolf]

Lostforwords & others:

Thanks.

Yes, next paycheck, I'm getting a separate checking account. As for a lawyer, well, I'll just have to bite the bullet on this expense. I've paid down the credit cards enough that I guess I have some room on them. I have landed a part time job up here (teaching a class at the local community college), so I have some income. I won't starve, though my cards may get maxed out. I've called a few people I know, and one has promised to get me the number of a lawyer in the next few days.

I just never saw this coming. It was supposed to be a vacation, not a divorce.

[InPassing]

Hi Lonelywolf,
I've been reading the boards and the books for a long time. Thought I would break my silence, and toss in my 2c for you.
Some "comments in passing", as it were


You quoted a long letter from your wife, complaining about you.

You said that it was about "10% correct", with the rest being exaggeration.

Women tend to exaggerate problems. but that doesnt mean you can ignore what they are complaining about.
They exaggerate to get your attention to the problem.
If her complaints are even that 10% correct (although my guess is, they are probably at least 50% correct), you have a lot of work to do on yourself.

To my mind, you have a chance at reconcilliation with your wife. Its a long, hard road, but she has actually POINTED IT OUT TO YOU.

She has taken the time to write down some very specific reasons she does not want to live with you any more.
She has also indirectly hinted at how you can rectify the situation (talk to your "bishop", admit how you have treated your wife badly, and ask for a "plan of repentance").
She has also indicated the timeframe she is looking at. 2 months, in her mind, is not enough. My guess is that you are looking at a year of hard work on your side.

If you are serious about it... your wife may come around again.



You say you are "in last resort".

The last resort technique, is supposed to be just that. a Last Resort. And going dark, is NOT the magic fix-all solution.

it seems to me, like you need to not go totally dark. Certainly, you need to back off, and not bother her much.
But my suggestion to you, for what it is worth, is to do the things that she has hinted at... with full effort on your part... and then gently and humbly let her know how that is going from time to time.

By all means, if you wish to have time with your children, push for time with them, and protect yourself legally.
in my opinion, though, you have a lot more options open to you right now than just "push ahead with divorce".

[Lostforwords]

Wolf,

I was just reading through InPassings post and I don't want you to think I was trying to get you too push ahead the divorce. I would let her take the reins on that, just make sure you have the saddle cinched for the ride.

I don't know about paying for the lawyer with a credit card. First, your wife might pick up on it. Granted she may already being seeing one, but usually the WAW spouse initially see's this action as a hostile act. It isn't a bad thing for a WAW to know about it in some situations, but I don't think you are ready for those actions yet. Second, and to me the bigger one, is that she has noted your credit card abuse in the past. Whether she is right or wrong, it is what she thinks and feels. Your use of the credit card could be seen as a slide back to your old habits..I know it is tough with this economy, but find another way.

[lonelywolf]

Thanks for the comments, all. Some more info:

One thing to realize is that I proposed (about a month ago) that she give me a year to prove myself, pay down the debt, find a good job, etc. She did not respond - in that e-mail above she states her immediate plans are to file for divorce. So she's blown that option off the table as far as I can tell.

I can't see how she's telling me what I need to do to change and win her back if she's planning on filing for divorce. She can file either today or tomorrow (depending on how you calculate the 90 days and which day was her "first" in AZ).

However, I am working hard at repenting and talking to my "bishop" and getting counseling, and paying down my debt. She knows I've been doing all this, and I asked her to give me 6 months to a year to keep doing it and prove myself. Her response is above. It seems clear to me she's not. But then, if I could read her better, we wouldn't be in this place.

Well, I was referred to a few lawyers down there. I was warned away from a few others. The first one I called, the one that I was told by several people was the absolute best one in the area, but also wouldn't overcharge me, well - that must be the one my wife has, as they told me on the phone "we have a conflict." That's all they would say, but I think that was enough.

The second law firm said they didn't do anything if kids are involved. The third one (with a pretty good reccomendation) said they would consult with me on the phone in two weeks, but that they would need a 4000 dollar retainer if they took the case (they said any excess would be refunded, but at 200 bucks and hour, I may have to pay more). I don't have 4000 bucks handy, but I have paid off more than that in credit card debt this summer, so I guess I'll just go back to (close to) where I was when this all started.

I don't know how else to get a lawyer. Several people warned me away from the others in the area. Of course, I don't know a lot of people in the area, but I've been using church connections (we're both Mormons, if that helps any).

I did have her "bishop" say that he was going to try and talk to her this week, and that he would call me this week to get my side of the story. I doubt that will help - her parents have obviously so poisoned her mind against me; the above e-mail sounds more like her mother than like her (it sounds like her channeling or being fed lines by her mother).

Interestingly, my mother checked her e-mail this morning, and my wife cc'd her on the above e-mail. My mom is debating whether to write a very cordial reply or not.