Another One Bites the Dust?

[MommaDucki]

First off: *apologies cuz I am a rambler, but will give this my best shot to keep it simple and to the point (me=that girl who makes a 5 min story into a 3 hour novel)*.
Secondly: feel free to just call me, "Ducki". Lol!

Moving on...been a lurker, and feel so much empathy for so many here. Have learned a ton, and am finally "unlurking" to gain some insight into my own sitch.

*what follows is the history between H and I. It is rather long, but I tried to condense it as best I could...just trying to give details. If you don't care/want to know this back history, just scroll on down to my response post.
Thanks in advance!!!

a brief history: me 30 H 28
H and I met almost 8 years ago via an online chat room. We'd been sort of on-again, off-again for 4 years.We got together for the first time as a dating couple in Nov '05, and had a long distance relationship that was the best relationship either of us had ever had. In Feb '06, he proposed, and in Aug '06, we got married. After the wedding, I moved from Indiana, back down to Texas, where he lived, and where I had previously lived and met him initially.

After the wedding is when he says things went downhill. That everything about me was different than I'd said I was. I also found out things about him that I was unaware of. I feel as if I was being more of a realist to the sitch though...I expected that we'd learn new things about each other once we started living together. I have had a hard time dealing with certain things about him as well. He's always had a skewed view on marriage...marriage is easy, couples don't fight or argue ever, and if they do, they should divorce because arguing, fighting, or being in disagreement over something, isn't what a marriage is about. He did have other insights about marriage as well, but overall, I felt nothing I did was meeting up to his expectations. Of course this led me to being frustrated with him early on, and our "honeymoon phase" ended rather quickly, and even now, I'm still trying to move past that transitional phase and he wants nothing to do with it. Says he feels a god marriage will forever remain in a honeymoon phase.

Gah! moving on...3 months after our wedding, we had a friend move in with us. In my opinion, this is truly when our problems began. It was supposed to be a very temporary situation, and the friend ended up living with us for 7 months. In that time, H just assumed that it was ok that since we both had jobs and now, we recieved money from roomie, that it would be ok for roomie's $ and my income to pay for all the bills and H started shopping like a maniac. One thing he and I have never (and probably won't ever) agree on is money. When he would approach me about a big purchase, I could point out my reasons behind why I didn't think it was a wise investment, and he'd buy it anyway. We'd end up not having that money for a utility bill or whatnot, and he'd get mad at me for, in his words, "overreating to the <insert utility bill here> getting shut off again". Rent on our house starting falling behind, our landlord was getting frustrated with us, H quit his job, found another and quit that we well.

Then, June '07, we found out we were pregnant. Around the same time, H was still unemployed, and found a potential job in another city about 400 miles away. He approached me one morning right before I was about to leave for work and said, "W, *friend of mine* down in *new city* has job openings where he works and I was wondering how you'd feel about a move so I could work to support us and the baby." I told him I'd consider it as long as we could sit down later and discuss it in detail, and then I left for work. When I got home from work that night, he'd talked to his friend, made all the arrangements for our move, talked to our landlord about us leaving on set date, arranged for us to live with friend temporarily, talked to roomie about how he'd need to find a new place to stay, and even put down a deposit on a moving truck. Of course, this set me off big time and once again, he got mad and said he didn't understand why I was once again "overreating".

Instances like this have happened on too many occasions to count where he brings up and idea to me, and before I have a chance to even catch my breath, he just finalizes all the plans for the both of us. I've tried to explain to him that I appreciate him taking initiative like this, but I feel a bit controlled...that I feel as if my opinions of what happens in our life don't matter to him...that I feel he makes all the decisions about my life, and that all of this hurts.

His reasoning behind this decision making process is that when he approaches his dad about things like this, he has to have all details worked out and finalized before he talks to his dad, or else his dad lectures him about life's choices being made by him "too vaguely". Again, I reiterated to him how this felt a bit unfair to me because I'm not his father...that I can understand why he'd go about decisions like this, but that our case is different than he and his dad's case...His father isn't directly affected by these decisions...I am!

I also need to include some other info as well here...Now H and I are both flirty people by nature. I've always known this about him, and have come to accept it. Some might not understand, but it's just part of who I am. H liked to be that guy to sit around and flirt a bit with girls, and I never took it too seriously in the beginning, but then it started turning into a problem when I found out all his flirting was bordering on EAs with various women. He likes to feel that initial thrill of a new relationship I suppose....but I wasn't too happy with him being this way. I told him about all of this and his response was, "W, I may be flirty and whatnot with other girls, but you're the one I come home to every night. You're the one who gets to be with me every day. It's really only you I want to be with, I mean, look at all you do for me! How could that make me not want to be with you?"

I tried to get him to just listen to me as I explained to him how I felt about all of this...that I heard what he was saying, but felt that he wasn't really with me...He was physically there, but mentally engrossed in some other woman's life. That I felt more like a maid/cook/secretary for him. Didn't have that level of intimacy I used to have with him any longer, and I missed it...I was lonely, and on top of it, playing maid/cook/secretary to roomie as well...and now pregnant on top of it all.

Well, because so much had been finalized about the move and new job, I felt I had no choice but to hand in my resignation from my job, seeing as I'd have no place to live if I kept it...lol. My last day at work, I took a fall...landed on my belly, which caused some problems with the pregnancy. I was put on moderated bedrest for 2 months...was told 6 times that I'd miscarry...and H could only harp on me for not cooking 3 meals a day for him and keeping up on the laundry. I was now most definitely NOT the woman he'd married...who he married was someone who would, no matter what, wait on him hand and foot and pay him constant attention. We moved July '07 and H didn't even get the job we moved for. Friend, aka "new roomie" was still willing to let us stay with him...he had the space after all, and H kept on trying to find a new job...all the while, we're now living entirely off of roomie...Aug '07 rolls around, and things happened to me physically that put me in the clear with the pregnancy, but by this point, I was showing quite a bit, and though I tried to find at least a part-time job, no one seemed to want to hire me. H found a job in Sept '07, and it seemed very promising...insurance kicked in fairly quick, and we found a good OB....D was born in Feb '08 by an unplanned C-section. H was in love with his little girl...and still to this day says he only has her best interest at heart. In march '08, he quit his really great job because he said the hours interferred with time with the baby, and he again, stayed unemployed for 2 months. In that time, some new friends had moved into town, and H was ecstatic! New people for him to show off the world too! Even though he had no job, he'd find ways to get money (mostly by selling our things - without me knowing), or convince roomie or new friends to pay, and take them out all over the place. One afternoon, I'd taken a nap while D was napping, and when I woke up, he was just gone. Called him, and he said he was in *other nearby city that'd 90 miles away* and that he'd woken me up to tell me and that I had grunted in response...why was I again "overreacting"? Then there was the music festival they all spent 4 days at...and the dinners out, and bowling, and movies, and sight-seeing...all the while, roomie and new friends would ask if I'd like to come along, and H would speak up for me and say I shouldn't or couldn't go because of D.

So April '08 rolled around and I found out my grandmother's cancer had come out of remission and was spreading fast and she'd opted to go home and recieve hospice care and live out her days at home. I'd spent 15 months prior to our marriage working as her full-time caretaker, and was devastated by the news. H knew this and told me I should get up to Indiana to see her. My family helped pay for a plane ticket for D and I to travel up there, and we left May 2, 2008. On some level, this was like a mini-separation for H and I.

Things hadn't been gong all that well. I'd been diagnosed as suffering from depression while pregnant and was put on anti-depressents. I'd also found out while pregnant that I was in stage 3 of pre-cervical cancer and there wasn't anything that could be done about it at the time due to the pregnancy. After D was born, I was put on stronger anti-depressants, and my OB thought I was suffering from post-partum depression. I had gotten a break at my 6 week post-partum check up by finding out my stage 3 pre-cancer had dropped down to a stage 1...a very good sign indeed, and we really had no idea how it came about.

Up in Indiana with my family, I went to visit my grandma every day. At first she was still very alert and coherent, and over a 5 week period, I watched her slip further and further downhill to the point she went into a coma, and passed away a few days after. This came as a huge loss to me...somehow, i felt it was my fault and I didn't know why...I knew it wasn't my fault in any way shape or form, but still felt guilty.

While I had been up there, H did find a new job...working from home, and took so much of the money he was earning and spending it on frivilous stuff again. He and I are both gamers, and he'd been buying new parts for his PC to enhance his gameplay and whatnot...all the while, telling me he had no money to put in the bank for me to access for diapers, etc for D. Originally, D and I were supposed to go home on June 4, and we'd stopped by to visit grandma on our way to the airport, and that was the day she'd slipped into a coma. I knew she wouldn't last much longer, and that if I went home, there was no way i could come back up in a few days for a funeral...talked to H, and he understood and even agreed that I cancel my flight and reschedule. Three days later, she passed away, and I will be forever grateful that I was able to attend her funeral.

Now, because I'd booked the flight home for fairly cheap, I had that credit with the airline, and was planning on applying it to a new flight home...was my intention to make it back for Father's Day, seeing as a new daddy only gets one of those, but the credit amount I had wasn't enough to get me back in time, and H told me we had no money to foot the balance, so get what I could with whatever credit I had....I ended up coming home 2 days after Father's Day.

He called me a selfish B**** for keeping him from his daughter on Father's Day. This is really when things escalated between us. I found out that in the video game he was playing, he'd really "connected" with this girl he met. At first, he'd just talk about her generally, but then confessed to me how deeply he cared for her. I started to obsess and snoop and pry....I was logging into his account and reading things they were saying...started taking screenshots of their convos, printing out copies of emails, and even tape recording their phone conversations at night. He was staying up all night talking to her on the phone...getting really irritated with me if I didn't go to bed early...because of course, I was holding him up from talking to her. It got to a point one night that I had woken up to use the restroom in the middle of the night and I heard his voice downstairs...I tried to be as quiet as I could because D slept in the same room as us...and because of her as well as trying to keep an ear out for me, he'd keep the baby monitor on to listen for us. I did manage to quietly get to the door though, and heard him tell her how much he loved her. She lived in upstate NY, so I know they weren't having a PA, but I was still crushed over their EA. When I confronted him about it, of course he was angry as all heck, and denied it all. I had proof though...proof that he had told her how he was going to "send me away to live with my parents and then fly her down in time for his birthday (which was in Aug), because she'd be the best b-day gift he could get".

On top of all this, the government had issued most everyone economic stimulus checks at this point, but we'd not recieved ours yet. I was concerned about it, and H kept reassuring me that it must have gotten lost in the mail or something. I later found out that it had come while I was up in Indiana, and he'd forged my signature on it, cashed it, and then spent it on a video card for his pc.

Also, we had a truck we were still making payments on...low enough that we stayed current on it, and it was in really good shape. While I was in Indiana, he had an anime convention he volunteers to work at every year that he insisted he "had to go to", but he'd just started his new job and had no gas in the truck to make it to this convention, which was back in the city we'd moved from a year prior....He decided it would be a good idea to just trade the truck in for a new car...mainly because it would come with a full tank of gas so he could get to this convention. When he called me from the dealership, he let me talk to the salesman he had spoken to so I could hear all the details...he had very little, if any credit at this time, and needed my credit to be approved for the car...after hearing the guy out, I knew we were being taken for, and I told H it wasn't a good idea...just keep the truck. he said ok, and a day later, I recieved a Fed-EX package from the dealership with all the necessary paperwork to buy this car. I called the dealership to question about it, and they said that H had bought the car, and all they needed was my signatures on the marked places and to have me send it all back. Told them I did't want this purchase, and was told it was too late...H had already taken the car home, and our truck he'd traded in actually got bought earlier that same day, so it was gone! I was furious. Again, H said I overreacted to the situation.

So after finding out about H's EA with this OW, I told him I was going to leave. This was late July '08. I had a girlfriend back near our old city that I talked to, and made plans to have her and her H drive down to me, get D and I and let us move in with them for a bit. As the day came closer to me leaving, H got a wake-up he needed and realized what he'd be missing. He and I sat down and had a very very very long talk about what we needed to do if we were to make this work, and that me leaving wasn't really what either of us wanted. I called my girlfriend and thanked her for the offer, but that H and I were gong to work on things. She was actually quite hurt by this, and it's taken until about a month ago for her to even start talking to me again.

Well, for about a week, things seemed to be on the up and up. Then, one night, H and I had gone to bed at the same time, and a couple of hours later, I woke up to find he was not in bed any longer. Heard him talking downstairs again, and found out he was still talking to OW. I went straight downstairs and we had probably our most hostile argument ever. Caused OW to freak out because I was approaching him while he was on the phone with her. She quickly hung up, and I again, was accused of overreacting.

Moving on...H apologized for not ending A like he said he would. He let me sit and listen on speakerphone as he broke it off with her. He even transferred his characters in the video game to a different server so he'd have no contact with her that way....Changed the characters' names and everything. At that point, we really did start to work on things freshly and differently. Since he worked at home, he tried to help out more with D because he realized she was now 6 months old and he'd hardly done much with her or for her. He and I also started spending more one on one time together...Prior, we'd spent a lot of time with roomie and new friends, and little time as just the two of us...I think I got him to understand why I felt so strongly about us getting alone time.

Then towards the end of August, he started acting funny again and quit his job, again! I again, started being sneaky even though I knew it would only hurt me more in the long run...Found out he'd started another EA with a different woman...this time, someone local...So here I am, thinking, OMG! first the two different mini, sort-lived EAs back in old city, now two fairly serious EAs in new city, and on top of that, all the personal ads he was posting and responding to while I was in Indiana with D...found out about those, and sadly, most happened on Mother's Day....Happy first Mother's Day to me! And to think, he got a new $100 grill and accessories for Father's Day (that he bought for himself btw).

So at this point, he was still telling me how he wanted to work on things with me, and all I could really tell him was, "well, then, H, stop telling me what you want to do, and show me. Actions speak louder than words".

In Oct, he found a new job in a different career field, and quit after 6 days because he didn't like it, and after that, he all about gave up on looking for a job and life in general. All he wanted to do was sit at ths pc and play his videogame. He stopped showering, got mad at me because I didn't want to be intimate with him, he'd go for days before changing into clean clothes, and started staying up all night, sleeping during the day, and getting mad at me because during the day, he was trying to sleep peacefully, and I kept interrupting by bringing D in for naps. He would get mad because I didn't cook appropriate meals for him at the proper times (mornings to him were dinner time for the rest of us, so he wanted breakfast food as I served dinner to roomie and I, and so on).

By mid-Dec, he started to come around...he realized that the way life was going for us at the time was no way to live....Roomie was on the verge of kicking him out. Said he'd never be able to live with himself if he kicked out a mother and her youngbaby, so I was welcome to stay, but H needed to go. H wrote an email to his family asking for help and/or advice. They had a sit down meeting together to talk about things, and in the end, his dad and step-mom offered to let us come back to old city and live with them...with certain stipulations of course. I was hesitant. I liked them very much, but wasn't to sure about living with them. They are very particular about so much in life, I wasn't sure that they'd be tolerant enough living with an 11 month old, even if it was their granddaughter. So New Year's Day, we loaded what little of our stuff we needed, and moved to the in-laws.

Part of the agreement was that both H and I get jobs, and D goes to daycare. H and I needed to get a job, any job, pay didn't matter, distance didn't matter, they'd help any way they could. H wasn't taking to being there very well and spent most nights lying awake in bed or reading news online...I was spending my days looking for work....Due to our financial strain over the years, I'd been unable to be making payments on a few fines I had in regards to my license, so it became suspended, and then revoked, so H had to drive me anywhere I needed to go...Every morning, I'd get up, get D and I dressed, and wait for H to wake up hoping he'd get up soon to drive me about filling out job apps. Every day, father-in-law came home at lunch to find H in bed, me sitting in the living room playing with D, and neither one of us with jobs yet. H and his dad would fight, and H would leave the house in a huff...father-in-law would be fine, but also leave to go back to work. H would be gone the rest of the day, "looking for jobs". He'd also started posting personal ads again...said it was to prove his point....that I can't trust him at all, otherwise I wouldn't snoop around so much.

One day, he came home, and asked if we could talk. Once D went down for her nap, we sat down, and he told me he's trying to re-enlist in the Army, and if he was successful, I'd probably need to move up to Indiana to live with my parents for awhile. Told me he'd already talked to his parents about it, and they'd pay for me to get up there, now we just have to decide how soon I'd need to go.

Another fight about him making all these decisions for me...lol....this time, it went rather civilly. We decided it'd be better if I stayed, and the next night I overheard him having a talk with his dad...well, more like a very heated lecture. About how he wasn't doing what it takes to provide for his family, sleeping all day, and he's here in their house, living off them like a mooch while his wife sits on her lazy a** all day not doing anything either.

It was at this point that I decided what I had to do, and had been putting off for half a year....


THANK YOU to any and all that have read this far. Like I said at the beginning, I can be long winded. More about my sitch in the next post.....is a much shorter post, I promise!!!

[MommaDucki]

My actual Sitch:

So, Jan 20, 2009 D and I left TX by train and headed to Indiana once again. H and I had decided we needed space away from each other, and time to focus on ourselves for a bit, and then see where that left us....my parents offered to let me move in with them, and my mom even offered to babysit D so I could work. Right up till I got on that train, H and I were the best I think we'd been in a long long time...maybe since we first got together...most likely because we both knew I was leaving, so what good was fighting?

So, i arrived in Indiana on Jan 20 '09 and by Jan 25, had in interview, and was hired on the 28. Still at the same job. Doesn't offer medical till I've been there 24 months, but it's a job. H, D, and I had been on medicaid and food stamps in TX, and since we'd moved, and H was listed as head of household, to apply for benefits in Indiana, I needed him to call and have us removed from the case. Asked him to do it in feb, and he finally did it in July! Just got approved for medicaid yesterday though, so that's a plus.

H kinda freaked out after we left. He went a bit crazy, and started drinking a lot, which he never does. He lived it up for about a week and then just stopped. He got a job, and started working his butt off. That car he'd bought? Yeah, we were always behind on payments on it, and between his Mom and stepdad, and Dad and stepmom, they'd kept us afloat, but now his dad was harping on him for repayment since he had a job again. He got sick of the questions from his dad, so late feb, he moved out and into the apt of a female friend of his. I know what you all must think, but this was in all honesty, a platonic friend. Neither of them had any interest in each other, and I'd known that for fact for years. She was living in a 2 bdrm apt with her bf and offered the 2nd bdrm to H, and H gladly accepted.

H did take a trip up here mid-Feb for D's bday. He tried so hard to make it for her actual day, but missed it by 1 hr and 2 mins. I still tell him to this day that it won't matter to her...She won't even know, but he's disheartened by it still.

So, the beginning of March rolled around, and he'd gotten in touch with an old female friend of his. Seems she and her H were not doing well at all. She started spending a lot of time with H, and they became too close...H had her convinced she needed to talk to her H about what was going on in her head, and she tried, and in the end, decided to leave her H. I was told she moved into her grandma's house, and later found out that she moved in with H and his roomies.

About this time was when H first dropped the D word to me. Said in all this discussion he'd been having with new OW, he realized how miserable he was being married to me. Too many bad things, not enough in common, and he felt trapped and "domesticated". I heard him out, but asked for clarification, and made the mistake of heavily pursuing him.

Reminded him that it was my understanding that we were supposed to be working on ourselves a bit and then figuring out where that left he and I. He'd told me when I left that he knew I'd miss him and quickly want to jump back into living with him and that no matter what, we should seriously consider not making any rash decisions for at least 3 months. I felt hurt and betrayed by this. Why did I have to wait 3 months, but he could wait 5 weeks and drop the big D on me?

He got laid off from his job towards the end of March, and started collecting unemployment. All this time as well, he kept promising to send me money to help with D, and had yet to follow through with it.

April came and we weren't really talking all that much. Would talk about every other day getting or giving updates on D, but very seldom did we ever talk about the R. When it did get brought up, I'd backslide and start begging and pleading with him to reconsider, which I now feel has pushed him even further away.

About mid April, he called me one night and wanted to talk to me. Asked how I'd feel about us both being open to dating others to see if that changed anything. I asked him if I could think about it for a few days and get back to him. In the end, we decided to go for it. Probably the biggest mistake we've made here.

I'd taken a guy I work with up on his offer to take me out to dinner. Felt great to feel wanted by a man again. He and I clicked rather well, and he was so willing to just let me talk and release some of this pent up frustration, but in doing so, I came across to him like I wanted to be rescued or something, and he claimed he was falling in love with me. Too serious for me and waaaaayyyy too fast! I also made the mistake of letting myself get too carried away on one date and our EA turned into a PA. From the get-go, I'd made it clear to this OM that I still cared a lot about my H. That in the long run, I still saw potential for H and I, and that if H ever came around and wanted to work on things, OM and I were done...NC!!!

As for H, well, OW who was still married as well, was living with H, and they ended up in an EA that also turned PA.

let me backtrack just a tad here....

Mid-feb, I started IC..H was always and will probably remain against counseling of any sort. I knew from past experiences with it how helpful it is to me though, so with the help of my church, I was able to start seeing a therapist twice a month. Overall, he's helped me a bit, but there are certain things about him that don't quite make us click. He's not very solution-oriented, and at times, tries to push his own personal ethics on me, but he's really helped me discover some things about myself.

Towards the end of Feb, I'd discovered DR at the library...renewed it twice, as well as DB...Own copies of both now, and just about have them both memorized. Been trying my best to DB my butt off, but I backslide more than I'd like to. I was doing so great for awhile there GAL, and doing 180s. I'd gained quite a bit of weight while pregnant, and since starting my job, have been more active and working out, and i've dropped almost 40 pounds...I'm actually a bit under my pre-pregnancy weight right now. At first I thought, "Well, this is stupid. It's presonality factors that make H want to D me...how is getting into shape going to help win him back?" But I've now realized I wanted to lose the weight for myself...as well as my D. Got to a point where the more active she was getting, the less I was physically able to keep up. I feel absolutely amazing about myself now! I feel more attractive, feel healthier, and have much more energy.

I've also done a lot of soul searching trying to figure out what I've done to contribute to the problems in our M. Turns out I do have a tendancy to nag. Some cases, I felt justified...like, "H, please drop off the water bill so they don't turn it off again." (though I could have worded it better so it does't sound so nagging). Other cases though? well...good example: I'd yell andcomplain about H not helping out with the housework (when he'd be unemployed that is), and when he'd finally start helping because I'd laid off the nagging about it, I'd follow him around and complain that he was doing it wrong.

I've realized that a lot of things he does aren't "wrong", they're just different, and I have been doing a pretty good job of learning to distinguish the two. Some cases, myself, and others really do feel he is wrong...like the case where he forged my signature on a government issued check and cashed it? technically a felony.

I've been doing so many 180s in regards to so much in my life though that not even my parents can believe what a different person I've become. They were so happy about it for so long.

Seems I do really have a tendancy to whine or complain a lot. When I'd talk to H or any of my family members on the phone, they are all in agreement that it's hard to talk to me when I can go on for hours and everything I say is negative in conotation. Makes it a bit undesireable to want to talk to me. Have since stopped that, and as of right now, it's not something that is working so well with my family, but is working with H.

I've also done a pretty good job of GAL. I've made friends with quite a few people at work...mostly the girls, and we would meet up for bowling nights, pool, an occasional dinner out, etc. Felt really good.

I'm so grateful for my parents being willing to take me in, and for all the help they do with D. My mom was the one always encouraging me to get out of the house because it's good for me. My dad on the other hand? well, that's a different post, lol!

So, continuing on with my DB ways, Mid May rolled around and I got an out of the blue phone call from H. He'd been doing a lot of soul searching as well. Admitted to his PA with OW and told me how much of a mistake he'd made. This was the only time he's actually had a PA during our M and he's now devastated by it. He wanted a D because he thought the grass would be greener on the other side, and he said OW was crazy! just nuts and that I may have some issues, but it's very noticeable how much I've worked on my issues. Told me he wanted to be our family again.

Mistake Number 2: he told me all this, and two days later, he moved to Indiana and into my parents house with me. He asked me if two days was too soon and my goof up here was that I tried to do an unecessary 180. One of the issues he had with me was every time he said he wanted to do something, I always told him, "no", or worse...i lectured and told him what to do. Thinking the 180 way, I told him to do whatever he wanted. That hearing what he told me made me happier than I've been in awhile. Also told him that he needed to be prepared for the fact that even though I was happy with his choice, i was still hurting from his actions over the past 3 months...hearing at least once a week that he wanted a D was hard to take, so I couldn't just jump back into being all hot and heavy with him. He'd have to be patient with me, and I with him. He agreed, and came up here on May 15.

He was supposed to work at that yearly anime convention again at the end of May and he gave it up to be up here with D and I instead. In giving up that convention though, he had to pass along his resposibilities to other people, and his choice of other people to pass it along to was no other but his OW.

The whole time he was here, he was either sleeping during most of the day, or talking/texting/IMing OW. I about had it after 2 days of him leaving the house to go talk to her on a walk, closing his laptop every time I came near, keeping his phone on him at all times...something just didn't seem right. I asked him why he had to be so secretive about his contact with OW. His answer? Why did I have to be so nosey? I started backsliding here, and got way too defensive. Told him I didn't see why he had to spend so much time talking to her when he said he wanted to work on things with me. How can he start moving forward with me if he's still stuck in the past with her? Pointed out that I too had a R with someone else and when H told me he wanted me, I dropped OM like that. NO CONTACT! H asked how deeply I'd gotten involved with this guy. Told him it was most likely along the same lines as him and OW. He got oddly quiet at that point.

Like I'd done in the past, I'd told him how I felt a level of trust in him was broken and that I couldn't then, and can't now, just snap my fingers and trust him again...that it takes time, and effort to rebuild that trust, but I'm willing to invest in that. He just has to be open to it as well. I've told him that it's not a matter of me needing to see every email, IM, or text from everyone who sends something...it's more a matter of if he's willing to let me see....Like if I know he's got nothing to hide, then why tell me I can't sit next to him while he types IMs to people? if he has to shut the laptop when I'm within sight, right now at this stage, to me, it means he's hiding something.

So, H was quiet the rest of the night, and the next day, it's "we need to talk". he went on and on for almost 3 hours...and one other thing I've learned is that I have no problem letting someone talk my ear off, but when it comes to him, I interrupt him like crazy. So I just sat there and listened to him.

He opened up more to me in those 3 hours than the entire rest of the time we've been married. I really empathized with him too, and agreed with him on certain aspects. He came to the realization that even though he wanted to work on things, we'd made a mistake and gone about it too fast. he wanted to go back to tx, make ammends with his dad and stepmom and try to get professional help.

Now in my therapy sessions, the major focus in about me, but of course, the people in my life do get brought into the discussions. My T says he thinks H suffers from narccissitic personality disoder, but can't confirm it because, well....just can't without meeting him.

If this holds true, and I still want to work on our M, there are lots of facts out there about NPD, and nothing really works on it, except for the NPD person Wanting to change.

To me, I can see the resemblances...Lack of empathy for others, a grandiose idea about life, constantly wanting attention and approval from others, surounding oneself with important people...there's more, but you get an idea...

I really feel based on what he's told me over the past two months and the way he's acting, that he's actually in a MLC!!! Odd cuz he's only 28! (he'll be 29 no aug 28)

This post is long enough...more to come!! Thanks again to any and all who take the time to read through this.

[MommaDucki]

So for now, what's going on?

I'm still DB from afar...to the best I can, I've gone dark...at least on my end. H asks questions, and I'm very short and frank with him. I've gotten him to at least start taking the initiative to call or text me if he wants to ask about D...instead of him waiting for me to do it...Told him that if he wants a R with D, he has to start now.

I'm still doing 180s, and still working out.

As for H? Well, he left my parents' house 3 days after getting here. Realized he and I both still had crap to work on about ourselves, and we jumped too fast. So, he lived with OW in her grandma's house...her g'ma passed away in early July...OW's uncle is executor of the estate and granted OW and H permission to stay there. OW has a lot of health probs and H's been driving her all over dropping off paperwork for uncle, taking her back and forth to hospitals when she gets sick. He's all but convinced OW to buy him all the things he wants. So far, I'd guesstimate the amount she's spent on him is at least $3500.

He's made it perfectly clear to me why he wants a D and says it has nothing to do with her. He did just accept a new job back in city where D was born, so he's moving there, but since he let our car get repoed in may, he has no means for transportation unless OW goes with him with her car...so of course she's moving with.

About a month back, he and OW's mom got into a fight, and cops got called, OW got mad at her mom for mistreating H and calling him a liar (she wasn't actually lying...said things like H was actually going into places and filling out job apps, and spending all day on his new laptop playing video games, which is what he's doing.) Anyhow, H and OW moved out and into a hotel where they've been ever since.

Now, OW's LBS found me onlineand started contacting me with some "vital info" as he put it....said in that time frame in may when H was up here, his W told him that her and my H realized how true they are for each other and each wants to D their spouse so they can go to Vegas next spring and get married...and after that, they feel i'm not fit to be my D's mom, so they're going to take me to court for full custody of D.

During all of this, I've not asked a single question. I made it clear to H that he keeps lying to me to spare my feelings. I told him that all I want is the truth. The truth hurts a little, but being lied to and weeks or months later, finding out the truth? then I'm doubly hurt.

He doesn't ask about my life anymore either. I don't ramble to him about it though. The only time I ramble is when I'm talking about D.

I'm not even sure if I'm going dark the right way or not...lol, any tips there would help!

Ok, I am all sts of full of info, but it's also extremely late and I work early, So any insight or advice up to this point would be greatly appreciated.

I will gladly answer any other questions anyone has.

Fr now, goodnight!

[DiDi]

He went back to TX to "work on his issues" and get professional help... um no. Understandably, many that need help find any way they can to avoid getting it. I guess I'll ask, but I think it's a safe bet he hasn't made an appointment for that professional help yet?

Your H doesn't want to change. He has found someone that enables him to avoid that growing up and taking responsibility thing. I'm sure she IS messed up (you write a lot, hope you are keeping really good records of those statements from him) but she is financing his selfish drive to avoid hard work and commitment at all costs.

Please don't fall into the trap of excusing his cowardly behavior with a true MLC. The only crisis he is experiencing is the interference from OW's mom, who may eventually stop helping her finance this disaster. You'll be hearing from him then.

You sound intelligent and have a beautiful D with this man, so I'm assuming you have reasons for wanting him back So yes, you are going about THAT the right way if you are moving on with your life and only talking with him about your D.

The absolute best thing you can do is:
1) Stay at that job.
2) Get a place for you and D that you want to live in REGARDLESS of what happens with your H. A place you will NOT move from again-- I'm talking a place you can see D going to school and creating healthy ties and relationships. You move too much. You and D need stability and you do NOT want those two getting even the slightest chance to carry out their half cocked plan to get custody (delusional as they obviously are).
3) Rambling about D is almost the same as rambling about you. You are giving too much. He doesn't deserve to get all those milestones if he continues to make the choices he is making and won't get help he needs to be a good father. Take lots of pics, tell him how great she's doing. That's it.

Until he starts paying support and financing supervised visitation, you have to assume he will leave you hanging. He is telling himself he will make up for it "after he's married to OW and has his D full time". This is delusional but I'm betting he's believing it.

He isn't lying to spare your feelings, he's lying to keep doing what he's doing with no repercussions. If you set some boundries and really detach-- let him lie in the bed he's made-- he will want you back. If you want it to turn out better than last time, you can't let him come back as easily. But you know that

4)Document any police involvement, financial infidelity (and that lil forgery thing), everything you may need should he EVER get to the point that he sues for custody. I really, really, don't see that happening, but take care of YOU!
5)Which leads to 5-- I see you are working out, great! What 180's are you coming up with? And MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION I WANT YOUR NEXT ESSAY ON--What else are you doing for you?

Hope your day at work was just "ducki!" lol, sorry.

[MommaDucki]

So, yesterday was supposed to be my 3 year anniversary...Happy Anniversary to me, right? Know what I did to celebrate? Worked all day on very little sleep due to D cutting tooth #13..lol, and then came home, gave D a bath, read to her, put her to bed, and then spent another rough night with her waking up every 45 mins or so.
Through the grapevine, I ended up finding out that H spent our "anniversary" by taking OW out to dinnner to several places he always said he wanted to take me, and then signed a lease with her on a new apartment.

DiDi, as for your initial question about him getting that "professional help"? No, he never got it...Told me he talked enough about his issues with a few close friends...ended up deciding he was going to make some changes in his life by first starting to "cut certain people out of his life that were only bringing him down". He uses MySpace and Facebook a lot, and told me he was deleting the MySpace account, but never followed through with it. Said he couldn't do it because one of his closest friends on there passed away a few years ago, and if he deleted the account, he'd be deleting that friend, so he changed his mind. Now, several of our mutual friends say he's still on it all the time. I'll admit, I felt like I was stalking him for a little while, because I checked his page almost every day to see if he'd logged in. He deleted me pretty quickly, but I know he still has a rather large number of friends on there.

Gah! Rambling again. So, I deleted my Myspace cuz I realized it was doing me more harm than good and dropped the subject of it with him. Overall, I've pretty much dropped all subjects with him as of late. OW takes too much of his time, and he still calls me later at night and I simply tell him I'm not up for talking at the time.

He tries so hard to get me to feed him info. He's admitted to me several times that his R with OW was at first only happening to see if he could get me mad enough at him to file myself so he didn't feel like a jerk for D me. I know him well enough to know two things: 1. He's a procrastinator (sp?) so him doing the filing won't ever happen...he'd rather sit back and let someone else do it for him. and 2. If i filed, I look like the "bad guy" to everyone he keeps in his life, which allows him to get pity and attention from others because, "OMG, you poor guy! she divorced you and took your D away"

I've told him that Iunderstand his decision to D, I accept that's the choice he's made, that I acknoledge the fact that I don't control him or his decisions or thoughts, but it doesn't mean i must or do agree with them. Lately I've been really good at not making it seem that I'm "pursuing him". I simply tell him that for now, I'm just content with things the way they are. I'm doing my thing, he's doing his. I've backslid a bit and told him the only reason that I think he wants a D is because of OW...who again, still isn't D from her H either.

H is quick to remind me the only reason he hasn't filed is because he has no money.

When I said I ramble with him about D, i literally meant ramble or babble. Nothing coherent in fact. I won't give him concrete info of any sort. Should I get served with papers one day, I do have a stack of paperwork all ready to pull out. In all the mention of D that H brings up, he tells me that he'd like to sit down and have a lengthy convo about what each of us want out of the D. That he wants us to have that cemented in stone so that when he files, he can just serve me papers, and i can plead "no contest" to spare me the cost of flying to TX to go to court. I've told him no to this everytime he brings it up. He rubs it in my face how nice he's trying to be about this and how he's willing to give me anything I want. (DUH! what I want is the chance to work through this and still be married to him - though i don't tell him that). he doesn't like me telling him no...says I'm stonewaling him, and asks why I won't discuss it. I tell him, "for the same reason you won't discuss us having any chance". Maybe I shouldn't word it that way, I'm not sure. I just know it frustrates me.

Hopping back to OW for a minute...her mom isn't financing anything for her or H...her uncle is, and he's in a different state than them. OW tells him she's needs money for herself for this that or the other, and uses the $ on H without uncle knowing. her mom was telling uncle about this and in H's words, "Stirring up trouble when she doesn't know what she's talking about." OW spends too much time needing H for everything in her life, which I've realized was one of the probs between H and I. OW agrees with him about everything he says, does, thinks, or wants....Yet another prob H and I had. OW likes knowing he's there with her at just about every minute of every day....Yet another prob H and I had....hmmm, this makes me think about writing a different reply as to the differences between OW and I because I know them fairly well, seeing as OW has been a friend of mine...up until she "hooked up with" my H that is.

As for the suggestions you gave me DiDi, here's some of my thoughts right now...

1. I will of course stay at my job for as long as I possibly can, which leads me to #2...

2. Getting into my own place! It's been a long hard journey, but I've been working my butt off to clear up some problems from pre-H on my credit that were making it difficult for me to get into my own place. Now that I've gotten them straightened out and I'm able to lease an apt or a home again, I'm exploring my options. Here's my problem though...

I've been so very grateful for everything my parents have done in helping me out, but it's getting to a point where I'm wearing out my welcome here, plus they're doing a lot of things in regard to my D that I simply don't approve of or accept(talking to them about it is only bringing up more issues), and overall, I really really miss TX. I've been considering moving back to the city D was born in. I really honestly loved it there, and despite the probs with H, I've never been happier living in any place ever!!! The school system is stellar, IMO, I absolutely loved the church I went to, had a lot of friends and support there, had several Mommy play groups D and I used to attend, and had a lot of other friends I knew as well. I loved the city itself...there are always events of some sort going on, and most are free and very kid friendly, and just overall, I've missed it there with all my heart.

I mean, I'm enjoying being around my family again, most of the time...but roughly 8 years of not living near them, and looking at past issues with them from well before I moved to TX 8 years ago, I was actually much closer to them when I pysically lived far from them.

I have been seriously contemplating moving back there...

I talked to my old roomie and he's willing to let me stay with him until I actually sign a lease on a place...I actually make things like that happen for myself, lol. I've been looking at the job market and daycare, and have a fairly good idea of the neighborhood I'd like to settle in...I know all of this would be hard, but in the long run, I'm supposed to be focusing on me, right? My parents' rule of thumb is that I'm not good at making decisions for myself, so they like to make decisions for me. No amount of me telling them in any way shape or form gets them to understand that I can and do make plenty of decisions for myself, and I don't do it hastily. I do my research!

If I was to actually follow through with this move, it would most likely take place in October. I'll keep you updated on how that is all going!

3. Rambling to him about D is like I said more like babbling nonsensical things to him. I can't even make sense of it most of the time. Most of my rambling tends to be in regards to my sister, who has her final court date on her own D is about 3 weeks. I tend to ramble to H about everything I'm watching her go through. He and I had a really lengthy talk in early July. He'd asked what it is that he's doing that keeps a small glimmer of hope for us alive in my heart and mind. I told him I couldn't answer that, there really wasn't a reason, was more a feeling...because honestly, there have been sooooo many changes between he and I, and they're still changing, and it's all been for the better...just not the best yet...and mostly because of OW. In regards to his question though, the only response I could give him was that if he didn't understand, accept, and respect my choice to not give up on us, and expected me to understand, accept, and respect his choice, then in all honesty, I told him I could not and would not talk to him. Of course, if something serious was wrong with D, I'd call him up right away. I told him that since we'd separated, the majority of the time, I go out of my way to call, text, or email him about D. Told him that I wasn't even going to do that anymore. If he really wanted to know how she was, he'd have to be the one to ask. His response was that I'd told him long ago to stop constantly texting, calling, and emailing me about stuff. Reminded him that I'd said that in regards to contacting me constantly about D stuff. Have not and will not ever have a problem with him asking about D.

So yes, the low down on what I'd told him? Wasn't going to constantly update him about D...he needed to initiate that. Wasn't going to contact him at all, just wanted to live my life and let him live his. Didn't want to talk to him about us at all for at least 6 weeks. Wanted him to stop trying to control me by telling me in phone conversations what I should or shouldn't be doing...that he wanted to D me, so he doesn't get the option to share his opinions on what I'm doing unless it involves D. Basically, I wanted NC with him.

Two days after he and I agreed to this, he started blowing up my phone. Texting like crazy, calling, getting very very upset with me for not answering him at all. He was also getting upset because this was about the time that OW's H contacted me, and somehow H found out about it and was then probing me for detailed info about what was discussed. It's been a bit humorous to me actually. I told him NC, and with a few exceptions regarding D and one short convo about our car that was repoed (the place called me and wanted some info that only H had, so I had to call and get the info ), he and I went 5 1/2 weeks without having any contact.

I had wanted 6 weeks, but graciously accepted the 5 1/2 weeks.

H got a new job that starts in two weeks. He and OW have to move for him to take this job, which is why they've gotten an apt....stupid IMO on both their parts, because now there's a legal document showing that they're living with each other while both are still married.

I on the other hand, have been keeping busy with work mostly. A guy in the dept I work in has been out on sick leave for over a month now due to a knee injury (I have a pysically demanding job that keeps me on my feet all day), so with him gone, I've had extra hours and have enjoyed the extra pay because of it, lol!

4. I have a rather large file folder of documentation of so many things that he's done, or not done for that matter. He doesn't know I have all this info, and I plan to keep it that way.

I have decided to take a mini-vacation down to TX as well. Seeing as this post is rather long...yet again, I'll explain the details of this trip in another response...as well as what I've been doing for me and the 180s I've done, or am still trying to do.

DiDi, and anyone else who may read this, Hope all is well in your world(s)!!

What a rough path we're on at times!