Trapped

[Virtually_Handsome]

This is from "Passionate Marriage".

... Joan suddenly realized that to preserve her own integrity, she had to go to bat for herself...

At breakfast the next morning, Joan expressed her feelings without focusing on Bill's reaction. "I'm no longer willing to accept how rarely we talk, " she said, "and I'm no longer willing to push you to do it. But don't assume I'm accepting things the way they are because I won't be nagging or criticizing you anymore. For myself, I don't want to be pathetically grateful just because my partner talks to me. Or has oral sex with me. And for you, I don't want you feeling pressured all the time by a screeching wife. I'll interpret what you do from here on as indicating your decision about how you really want to live. I'll make my decisions about my life accordingly"

Bill was stunned! He scrambled to get the conversation on familiar ground. "You're telling me what to do! You're pressuring me! Threatening me!"

"No," said Joan quietly. They both noticed her unusual calmness. "I'm telling you what I'm going to do. I have no idea what you're going to do. That's why I'm scared stiff. I'm threatening myself!" Joan expressed her dissatisfaction with the marital part of her life, and her ambivalence about possibly ending their relationship. She didn't give Bill an ultimatum, but she made her own priorities and desires quite clear.


It's quite a book. A difficult read. But lots of insight.

[Mach1]

HW,

This is from 7-18-2008, over a year ago......

Hello. I am an older member but have lost my login informatuon so I am starting over. My H and I seperated in 2001 due to his infidelity. Did the ILYBINILWY speech, etc. Textbook MLC. He moved in with his OW for a year and left our sons and I to fend for ourselves. At the time, he offered no explanations other than he was unhappy. I did not find out about the OW until he was ready to return to the marriage. He also admitted to two other affairs earlier in our marriage, one with a best friend of mine. I was devestated but somehow finally having the truth gave me peace and the courage to try and repair all the damage.

Admittedly, he came home for the boys. His OW had convenienced him that they would accept his relationship with her and become part of their "new" family (she had a son). Both boys made it clear he had no place in their lives until he cleaned up his. He finally understood and chose them.

He came back to live with us in a house I recently purchased and went thru the whole withdrawal process which almost destroyed us all but after months of counseling on his own, finally committed to our marriage and family again and let her go. He did all the right things, no contact with her ever, quit his 25 year plus job and went back to school to pursue his lifelong dream.

Today, I am conflicted horribly. The price I have paid to have my marriage back may have just been too high. I have doubts it was worth it. I dont want to become an old woman who regrets that she never went out into the world to see if there may have been a better path.

Today, he is working as a teacher and loving it. Our sons are stable again, WE have a daughter in law we love and a granddaughter who brings us such laughter and joy. I can see in his eyes that he knows that he would not be part of any of this life if he would have chosen the OW. He would still be at a deadend job with no satisfaction and missing out on the boys' lives. I know he truly appreciates the sedond chance.

The issues I am having are hard. I feel like I lost the part of me that trusted and lived life with a certain belief. All of that is gone. I watch everything I say and do, thinking that if I react the wrong way he will leave. It has been 6 years and I still feel this way.

Also, there is no intimacy between us. He has used every excuse he can think up. School was too stressful, new job too stressful, back injury, etc. We ML on a recent vacation but before that it had been 2 and a half YEARS. He wont discuss it.
I know he is unhappy with my weight. I am 48 years old and a bit chubby. His Ow was 10 years younger and very slim. I truly believe he would trade in a woman with a flat stomach over someone who cares for him, loves him and is a good person. We are in a cycle. He wont touch me if I am overweight and because of his rejection, I use food to ease the pain. A couple of years ago I lost the weight, when I still had some hope. At first it did make a difference, then he went back to the rejection again and the pain was so bad, I started eating again thinking in my head that if he couldnt just love me for me then who cares?

I want to get back on track, I do. I believe that I am caught up in the fear that what happens if I do finally lose the weight and he still doesnt want me? Maybe he really never did love me? Did I settle? The hope I had is gone. I go back and forth between letting him go and holding on. If I let him go then at least I will have hope again. Hope that maybe in the future someone will come along who will want me for me and not for what I look like.

Added to all of this is a financial tangle. All of our debt is in my name. He was never on the house or any of the bills because he was a student with no income. The bills are a result of his schooling, yet he can walk away legally and not be responsible. I will lose my house. My house is important to me. I found the means and strength to provide a home for myself and my sons after he left on my own. It helped me prove to myself that I could live without him. It is a symbol of hope to me.

On his side, he has no retirement. He is 50 years old. If he were to leave and start again on his own, he would have to work until he died. He cashed in his retirement from the job he left to pay off debt he incurred with Ow and for school. He isnt going anywhere. This is a decision I will have to make.

I want to feel better. I dont know how anymore. I want to be the person I became when he left, that picked herself up and moved on. Just not sure anymore that I can do that with him.

Any thoughts or help will be greatly appreciated. I am looking for a way to find some balance and get back on track in making my life about what is good for me.

I know and understand you are just here to vent....

BUT,

It's been over a year now that you have felt this way..

Nothing, from what I read, has changed for you.

At some point, you cannot blame him for YOU being stale.

Insanity is defined somewhat by doing the SAME things over and over and expecting different results...

At this point, you either DECIDE to do something to work on this, or you DECIDE to do something the other way...

Stuck is stuck, and what you are doing is no different than what he did when he went through this....Do you remember those feelings ?

Don't apply your Son's situation to yours, and you also don't want to be a hypocrite.

I'm not against you.....I'm against anyone who allows themselves to become stuck for this length of time....

The only way to change any of this is to DO THE WORK....

Whichever way you go, you will have support.

As long as you move in some way....

[Jimbo]

I cant make any more changes, I am frozen. I literally feel ice cold when he is near me. He actually hugged me over the weekend and it felt so odd, like a stranger was hugging me. I cannot put myself out there anymore, the rejection and excuses now cut like knives. It puts me in a very dark place that takes a long time to get out of. I am afraid to have it happen again what if I cant get out? Why were they all worth the effort but I am not?

Sometimes I think he just let too much time go by and now doesnt know how to fix it or approach me. I have not given him any reason to not approach me, at least not yet. I just cant put myself out there again. I have tried but just cant anymore. How many times does someone have to show you they dont want you to start believing it. I believe it now.

I know I have to keep doing this for my son. I wont be selfish and give him that excuse to walk away from a 2 year old and pregnant wife. I know counseling will help him but dont want to confuse the situation any more than it already is by filing for divorce. I want a solution that will work for me so I get some peace. Can I just be roommates? sure but that feels so fake. I would only be doing it to get the bills paid off so I could afford to live on my own. That seems so cold.

HW,

Not to come off as cold here, but it seems to me that you say "I want a solution that will work for me so I get some peace", yet you also say that you "cant make any more changes, I am frozen".

Are you expecting those changes to just appear as if by magic?

If you do not make the changes that you need to have for you - changes that will make you happy and give you what you need - then who will make those changes?

It is admirable that you want to be there for your son and his M. It is laudable that you want to set the right example for him.

Does that example include showing him that it is acceptable to allow your needs as a human being to be sacrificed, as long as the poisonous status quo is maintained?

Take your son's sitch out of the picture for a moment, and just focus on you.

What do YOU want out of this?

[dl443322]

Hi, I am so sorry for the obvious pain that you are feeling.

First things first, believe me when I tell you that I understand you wanting to be there for your son and that you dont want him to lose hope. But, he is 29 years old and he needs to figure this out. While you absolutely should be there for him, ultimately, this is his journey to walk. Let him.

While I also know that I cant possibly know all there is to know about your situation, there are some things that I do know, having gone through this for a long time.

I would like to share them with you, if I may. I now know that happiness or fulfillment doesnt come from another person. I know that in order for us to be happy, we have to be happy with ourselves.

This dbing is not to fix our marriage. This journey we take, if we choose to, is to find us. Sometimes when we do that, a marriage can be saved or changed.

So, you are unhappy with how things are. Time to look inside yourself and figure out what you want and what changes you need to make to make YOU happy.

You cannot look to your h to do this, it has to come from inside you.

So, what can you do to change going through the motions in life and really grabbing life with both hands and going full in?

As you begin to feel alive again, alive with the possibilities, many things might happen. Your h finally did what he wanted to to fulfill his life's dream.

Time for you to figure out yours.

[His Wife]

Thanks to all of you. I know I am a basket case and pretty pathetic. So thanks for the time.

Virtually Handsome: I will go out and get that book. It is one I havent read and will do so asap.

What do I want??? I want the husband I had back. The man I loved prior to the affairs. That man was kind and loved me, flaws and all. That is what I want, but I have come to realize that I cant have that man anymore, he no longer exisists. Although he made it through his crisis, some of the ideals he held onto to justify the affairs have remained. Like the one that he is a visual person...blah blah blah.....and the one that if he would have stayed with her he knows it would have been different but he thinks he would have been happy....

So that being said, I know I need to work to get to a place to make some decisions that are in my best interests and not his or my sons. I will hold off on anything until my son starts counseling...I will be his sounding board and example until then. I know he is perfectly capable of understanding how my situation differs from his but will feel better doing so once he has someone he can work with to get through his issues.

I am just so damn mad. I make up my mind to just get it over with then have an appt with my lawyer who lets me know the legal and financial ramifications of this decision and wham, I am back to square one. It infuriates me that I will be left with the bulk of the debt. Debt that was incurred so that he could quit his job and go back to school so he could be a happy person again and we could put our marriage back together. We live in CA. I make twice what he does. I will have to pay back 1/2 of all of this debt when he is only one who benefitted from it and will have to give up 1/2 of my retirement. His is gone, it was used to pay off the debt he had during his time with Ow and some of the schooling.

I will lose my house. I know it is just four walls so to speak but for me it became a symbol. That I could stand on my own two feet and live life without him and be just fine. That was before we had to refinance twice and add a second to get thim through school. If not for the above, I could have afforded it just fine. Yes, I made the decisions to do this but it was back when I still had so much hope that we were on the way to a better stronger marriage and it wasnt just what I wanted to believe, he did everything he could to make sure I believed it.

So, do I stay in a marriage that is really just a friendship and maintain my financial security to a degree or do I file for divorce and plummet into financial ruin?

The simple answer would be do what I need to make me happy but then I am trading one set of issues for another whole set that could be equally as devastating.

As for me looking to him to make me happy? I dont do that anymore, My days and weekends are full. I do things that make me happy. I just wanted to look to him for affection, etc that is usually part of a marriage or relationship. That is something that he will not willing give to me.

He is kind to me, he helps around the house and contributes financially. We do things together all the time. So it is not a wholly uncomfortable place to be in. It is just sad and not what I expected when I made the decision to stay in the marriage. If I could do it all over again, I would go down a very different road.

[Virtually_Handsome]

Well, I liked that post a lot better.

I think almost everyone understands the financial dilemma. It's a hard one, and no one can give you the answer. From that standpoint, it's probably good that you are going slowly for now.

I know it is a bit of a broken record thing, but when communication is a big part of the problem, Retrouvaille can really, really, be a help. In my case, not so much, but I could see how it could have been.

I think it would make a lot of sense for you to start out by looking at yourself, and deciding who you want to be, with or without him, and start to work towards that. Whether it is physically, emotionally, mentally, professionally, whatever. Make the changes you'd like to see in yourself, which also has the benefit of taking the focus off of him. And you might surprise yourself, and maybe even him.