In Limbo

[d1adsl5a]

Three months ago my wife came home and said that she wasn't sure if she wanted to be married anymore. After 15 years of marriage, three sons 11,9,7 she is contemplating a divorce. I have got every reason from I have been controlling the whole marriage, to I stopped wanting to go out all the time, I need time to find myself. She doesn't care about my feelings only hers at this time. Her family won't talk to her, her friends won't talk to her. She has started hanging out with her old college group staying out till 2am, dressing like she is 25, getting a tattoo on her butt. The typical midlife crisis stuff. One of them in the group is an old boyfriend. I have confronted her on several occasions if there is an affair. She has denied everytime. At this point, not sure I care. whether it is an emotional or physical affair it still is an affair. I have done everything you are not supposed to do up to this point. Wrote letters, tell her I will wait for her to make up her mind. After the kids were born, I just went to work, played with the kids and yes then came my wife. I will be the first to admit, I didn't put her first. She said this has been coming for years. There is nothing I did right in our marriage according to her. Then came the I love you, but not in love with you speech. You have paid all the bills, taken care of everything. I just want to be independent and buy things when I want to buy them. She doesn't really take our wedding vows all that seriously now. She said, don't wait if you need to find someone else to make you happy go ahead. She has created this wall around her that is impenetrable. I can break through. She is destroying me and my family. I still do love her and am holding out hope. I know I am supposed to work on myself, find things that make me happy. I am trying, but this is horrible. Some days I get through ok, however, most days I am miserable. I know I need to detach, however, it is hard. She is so cold and emotionless right now. She thinks divorce can be amicable. We can get 2 houses close by and I can come over anytime I want. That will not happen. I don't want to have to see her everyday... I still hold out hope she will see the light. It has been only three months...I will not leave this house. I don't want to be the one to file. I just want my wife to coma back before I pass the point of no return. I am 40, she is 39. How do I handle this pain I am in everyday? Should I just file and be done with it?

[sandi2]

Hi, and welcome to the community. I will get right to the point and tell you that I was almost a WAW. As far as your stitch goes, you do not need to file for a D and get it over with if you still love your W and want to remain M. It does sound as if she has signs of MLC but they are very similar to WAW symptoms. Have you read Michele's article on WAW's? If you have not order the DR book, then you need to get that for your "tools" on how to bust a D. You can get it from here or Amazon or book stores about anywhere. Don't discuss the book, this board or what you plan to do with your W. If she's in MLC, it is going to take a long time for her to get through the ride, so you need to know for sure that you can take it. It is not an easy thing to do.

[sandi2]

While you wait for your DR book, here is a list of Do's and Don'ts for the LBS. If you will go by this list, it will help your R.

DO’S & DON’TS FOR LBS

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out the good things in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage
books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. Don’t act as if you are going to gobble up their “crumbs”(Remember, you are
drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. They can’t fix what is wrong.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make him/her say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life as if you’ve had a “wake-up call”.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, go walking, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or short on words but don’t act “hurt” or mad. If he/she asks what's wrong....just say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! Do not sit up late waiting for him/her to arrive home.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more importantly, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) Do not discuss your plans of self improvement.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun. You want them to think that they would be a fool to leave a person as great as you.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight. WAS are able to do that easily, so be on your guard and refuse to get into a R talk.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic in showing a PMA, b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25. (This is my opinion and others look at it with a different POV.) Do not go out with other people or flirt with others--in order to cause your spouse to feel jealous. It is best to stay away from places that would encourage temptation with the opposite sex.

[25yearsmlc]

Dear D1A,

Glad you are here, but sad that you had to be. This IS the place for what you are going through and Sandi2 has just given you great advice for the here and now. Take it, and get the Divorce Busting and or Divorce Remedy books asap.

And in case she didn't mention this, do NOT TELL YOUR WIFE YOU ARE READING THESE BOOKS and don't tell her to read them either. Don't "accidentally" leave them out or it'll look manipulative. When you get the books and read them, either one -- although I liked the D Remedy book more b/c I already knew I didn't want a divorce and D Busting discusses pro's and con's a lot and I didn't need that so much. (I Did read both, btw).

Anyhow, once you have those books the terms and concepts here will make more sense and you'll find some peace and guidance...

Good luck, it is FAR from hopeless at this point. You will be happy again.

j-

[d1adsl5a]

Sandi2: Thanks for do's and don'ts. I have read the DB book. Of your do's and don'ts I am pretty sure I have broken most of those rules so far...Everyday I try to wake up and be happy. Life is about choices. However, somedays it is just hard to "act" like I am happy when I am miserable and it's amazing how kids can pick up on that so easily. However, I have felt a bit stronger the last day. My last letter was sent yesterday listing the 20 things she has said I have done wrong in our marriage. I said with all these things, I don't even think you liked me.... I am promising myself and now you sandi2 that I will not write another one. I have stopped checking phone records or asking who she is going out with a few weeks back. The hardest part is just seeing her everyday, sleeping in same bed. I saw one of her journal entries where she said that I have been controlling our whole marriage and that most times she thinks a divorce is the best option for her and the boys. How can divorce be the best option for our boys. Her biggest issue is that I have been controlling. She says everything has been about "my money." Sure I would complain about the visa bill every few months($4,000 per month). She never wanted to take responsibility(I have asked) for anything with money. She was happy being the stay at home mom. I even told her to get a job several times. Now she thinks her only road to happiness is getting a job and having her own benefits if she decides to divorce. She says that she hasn't grown up. Wants to be able to buy a new floor without asking me. She grew up in an old italitan family where the father paid for everything just so he didn't have to hear her complain. She bascially got everything she wanted. She also has a terrible temper. I suppose this was inevitable. I just never saw it coming. We would argue every 6 months, then it was over the next day. I have never had anything wrong with me in my life. The last year, I had insomnia quite a bit. The harder I tried to kick it, the worse it got. My wife is all about tough love. After the first couple months, the support from her was gone. Every month or so, I would have a bad few days. She got fed up with it as well. Whatever happened to in"sickness and in health". What if I actually had cancer?? Anyway, I am rambling. Thanks for your post and I will do my best to adhere to all the rules....

M 5/94
the bomb: 5/09
s 7
s 9
s 11
status in limbo while wife works on herself.

[d1adsl5a]

25yearsmic: Last thing I would have expected 3 months ago that I would be on this site. However, glad I am here. I would like to see more success stories. Seems like alot of people like me hoping, trying, praying this pain ends. I have told her about the books. I will stop today....Like I said to sandi, I have been doing alot of things wrong. Hope is all I have at this point. It just sucks that if it doesn't work out, I will have to see this woman weekly for the next 11 years...I do still love her terribly. Rejection is one of the worst things to go through. I just have to do my best to be strong everyday. I am definitely looking forward to being happy again. Thanks...

[25yearsmlc]

Start thinking about the 180's very hard. You may be seen as controlling about money and if you told her to get a job, that may have felt demeaning to her. I say this from experience. I'm a lawyer and my h is a doctor and as his hours became so ridiculous and I was doing everything at work and at home, I finally got pneumonia during a pregnancy and realized how insane our life had become. I quit my job with the 3rd pregnancy, and supposedly with his blessing. Then he resented my not earning "my share" and put down the sacrifice I had made in staying at home and putting my career aside (a sacrifice that was well worth it so I am not complaining about the choice, but HIS attitude, when it suited him).

It became a power struggle about whoever earned money apparently got to choose the flooring IF ANY new flooring were to be purchased and where we were to live, even if I HATED the place and it sucked for my career, and as my resentment grew I naturally thought about going back to work though the kids were all young....But as a c told me, "If you go back to work to 'prove something to your h', your kids suffer" so I waited. And it was one of several issues for us, and since we are reconciled as you can see by my signature, there are success stories here. But it was a long tough road and staying on track is not picnic either. But your comment about money and then telling her to get a job versus staying at home hit a chord in me I guess. Here's what I saw my bil do with my sister that I LOVED...

At HIS promotion ceremony, he presented HER with flowers and thanked her for being a SAHM and "doing the hardest & most important job in the world"...I cried and boy did HE get points for that comment. My h picked up big time on that. I hope he knows my bil MEANT it b/c he really does.

So, that's all I have for now, b/c you have the books and you are lining thru the things NOT to do again....she will notice but remember this,
Time + the changes she sees in you = Her coming to trust that the changes are real.

Don't report in 2 days that "nothing has worked!" b/c your timeline must be realistic. My h was gone about 2 years full time, so....get your seatbelt on and make some changes, This is NOT all about her. And that is good news b/c you have no control over her, only YOU so work on YOU and GAL.

What are your 180's and what are your GAL activiities? Also, don't believe she never liked you. That's unattractive neediness AND it's a lie. You think she's the world's best actress? Then she should come to Hollywood and you can say "BRAVO! You had me fooled all these years..." She is trying to convince herself of this. In the meantime, lovingly interact with the kids as much as possible b/c NO woman is unmoved by that. Do the 180's, GAL, etc.

Good luck,

j-

[sandi2]

How are you doing today? I noticed this in your signature line and wondered what you mean:

status in limbo while wife works on herself

I know how hard it is to "act" happy when you aren't. Never was very good at doing that, however, I did learn that I could do more than I was often willing to. Don't we control our emotions when we are on the job? Don't we put on a certain face to wear before the public? Sure we do! We all have to have a place we can "let down" from time to time, but for the most part, we could try harder to not allow negative feelings to show....expecially in front of our kids. Maybe each day you feel so sad, you could make it your goal to see if you could go one hour longer than you did the last time you were trying to conceal your sadness in front of your children. What if you were in a reality show? Oh boy!
Now that is something to think about!
I'm sure I don't have to tell you how smart kids are. I think that a lot of them worry when they see their parents unhappy or fighting b/c of so many people they know divorces. They see it on TV, movies, their friends have D parents, etc., and I think it scares them and they begin to feel insecure b/c of their parents. Maybe remembering that will help you hold out for another hour longer....next time you are showing sadness.

You spoke some about how she feels you are controlling....and you talked about how she runs up the credit cards, etc., but do you think you are controlling? When you or she says "controlling", do you mean strickly in the finance area or every part of the R? Other than simply giving in to whatever she wishes to have, what could you do that would show you are NOT controlling?

You were speaking about her spending and the idea of her working and you suddenly threw this in the middle:

She says that she hasn't grown up

Then you said she wants to be able to buy a new floor without you. I'm not sure I get the connection. Do you mean that is what "growing up" means to her?

She grew up in an old italitan family where the father paid for everything just so he didn't have to hear her complain. She bascially got everything she wanted. She also has a terrible temper. I suppose this was inevitable

I understand "spoiled" women (like in "b*tchty" spoiled women)......and there is NOTHING good about spoiled women! Nothing! But, are you saying that it was inevitable that she had a bad temper b/c she's Italitan or b/c she's spoiled? She probably got away with having tempter tantrums when she was a girl at home with her parents.....another sign of being spoiled. Being Italitan, however, is no excuse....and don't let her use it for one. Everyone could use their culture, heritage, background, etc. as an excuse for a bad tempter. I tell you what, I think all bad temptered spoiled brats needs a good lesson in manners and since you are the man....don't you think you could teach her how a proper young lady should act? Better late than never. The next time she pitches a fit, ask her if she has any idea how very unattractive she is when she does that. The only reason she "continues" to behave badly is b/c you "allow" her to behave badly. Think about that. I don't believe you are very controlling....or you would be controlling how she behaves. Besides, you can count on having children acting like that if she gets away with it.

I just never saw it coming.

What did you not see coming?

You spoke about your W's tough love. I don't see that as tough love.....that is no compassion! We seldom understand what it's like to suffer what somebody else has until we have to go through it ourselves. One of my kids had a problem with sleeping and b/c he would sleep during the daytime, I thought he had his days/nights mixed up. I fussed about it and would tell him if he stayed up long enough without sleep that he would finally "have" to fall off to sleep. Well, I did not understand about insomnia. Then guess what happened? Years later, I experienced it for myself.....and still have it. I was wrong, b/c you don't necessarily fall off to sleep just b/c you've been up for two or three days! Until I experienced it for myself, I did not understand what my child had went through. Someday, she may have to suffer from the same experience. I have also discovered that people who have not had much sickness in their life, are not always the most compassionate people b/c they simply don't have a clue as to what it's like to be ill. I found it interesting that she's all about tough love, but then she got everything she wanted from her daddy! Hummm, bet it would be a different story if she was the one sick. Make sure she does not say anything to put you down in a negative attitude in front of your children......ESPECIALLY if/when you are sick. There is no excuse for a wife to do that and she needs to be put in her place if she does it.

Well, I ramble too, so we should make a talkative pair...lol. Check on you later.

[d1adsl5a]

The last thing on your note. Choose to be happy over being right. That hit home tonight. She again took a minor issue and turned into the whole you have never listened to me and always controlled me. We started to argue in the car. Of course the kids say stop. It was all I could do to not jump out of my skin. I get tired of being walked on and tired of being wrong. However, after I got home, I went to work out. I find myself doing that in the morning and at night now. Came home and was happy. Took the kids out for a bike ride and the anger is gone or at least hidden for now. About the job comment, I could tell she was getting stir crazy. She just needed a new outlet. All the voulenteering wasn't doing it. When I said it, she said how can I do it in this economy? Then Facebook happened. I should have noticed when her homepage picture only was of her and the boys. I was out. Anyway, 2 years. That is amazing and you are one strong person. I just hope I have the strength to make it 6 months to a year. I know my wife has to be in there somewhere. I don't know who the person is I am married to. She only talks of fixing herself, finding herself. I know I open myself up when I want to "talk" or write a letter. It always ends up that I was a horrible person the last 15 years. Great father, but bad husband... Thanks for the encouragement. Need to work on more 180's.

[d1adsl5a]

Sandi,

My middle son seems to be taking it the hardest. Coming back from the Cubs game last night, she gave me another knife in the back about something and again blamed me for the last 15 years. I wanted to just jump out of my skin. She knows she is hurting me dearly when she says that. We had a few minor jabs back and forth the kids have to say stop. After we got home, I just left before I said something again that I shouldn't. Last night I saw my middle son laying in bed before going to sleep just staring at the wall. I asked if he was worried about me and mommy. He said yes. I don't want you and mommy to get a divorce. It about broke my heart. It breaks my heart and makes me so angry that my wife can't see what is happening to the family. She can't see the joy leaving our son's eyes. They had such a fun innocent life not less than three months ago. I like the idea of trying to make it an extra hour of "acting" happy. Will use that one.

When I she says she hasn't grown up. She feels life has passed her by. She has never made decisions on her own. All the big decisions we had to make together. Or even little one's such as buying a floor. She wants to make on her own. Supposedly on the three houses we have owned. It has been my decision on where we live etc..She has rewritten the past. The last house was completely her call...Marriage is about two people making decisions together. The one thing I am guilty of is being practical--knowing how much we can afford-- complaining when our visa bill is $4,000 per month. She feels having a job with benefits(she said health benefits are needed if our marriage doesn't work out)and being able to buy something without consulting me will help her grow up. She finally agreed to start paying the bills. Have asked her this for years so she understands what money is coming in vs. what we can afford. Finally she agreed a couple weeks ago.

Regarding her temper. She has had this since I met her 18 years ago. Six years ago, she started taking Effexor(the highest dosage) to help control it. I think your right regarding me contributing to things. Over the years including friends and family have always just tried to placate the situation. I would just agree and say your right just to calm her down. Her parents actually told me this is the way she was as a kid. She lumps me in with her father and brothers, sisters as treating her like a child and being controlling. To answer your question, yes it has mainly been financial issues. She said it is your money, your 401k. She said she hasn't accomplished nothing in my 39 years. I said can't you see I went to work, provided, while you took care of the boys. I tell her that she did a fantastic job. You have so much to be proud of what you have accomplished. She just can't see it. I probably am guilty over the years for putting the job and kids before her. But when I say putting the job first, I am not a workaholic. I would be home for dinner every night-6:45 at the latest, was always home on the weekends. I just was more of the hang out at home husband doing family things vs. wanting to go out to dinner weekly or to the bars. I know I should have focused more on what makes my wife happy.

You are right, there hasn't been much compassion. She hasn't had many hardships or sickness in her life. I have had to pay my own way to college, grad school. Everything in life I have had to work for. She went right from Daddy paying for everything(2 cars, college, etc..) to me paying for everything. She worked until our 2nd son was born then became the stay at home mom 9 years ago. She has no idea what it is like to have to earn your own way. I think that is part of her issue. I also firmly believe she fell out of love with me over the past year because of the insomnia issues. I have learned to control it for the most part. But there was never much compassion on her part. I just need to work on th 180's and not engage her in defending myself or trying to get her to see the "light". This is the most stressful time of my life..

Thanks for listening again Sandi.
This website does help.