Let’s see…. Walk-away spouses are selfish, right? I’ve seen that more than once on this board. I’m sorry, I know this post will sound p!$$y, but I think “WAS's are selfish” is a gross over-generalization, unless someone can explain to me why I need to stick this out. If H can compartmentalize love and sex, I should get with the program and do the same, right? Just keep on doing what I’ve done before, and there’s peace and harmony in BunnyLand.
To put it bluntly- H enjoys the swinger lifestyle. I tried going along with it to keep this marriage alive (totally wrong reason to do it but I did anyways), and I’ve decided that I want out of that chaos. It’s been no secret that I’ve been a less-than-enthusiastic participant in all this. For instance, the last few times we went to the local swingers club, H was pissed and frustrated at me because I wasn’t an active participant in the activities, and accused me of “c**kblocking”. It’s also no secret that H probably would have left awhile ago if I hadn’t done it- he’s admitted that. That combined with a couple other bad experiences earlier this year (don’t ask) and I’ve had enough. I’ve told H that I don’t want to do this anymore(I thought I was allowed to change my mind- my bad, I guess…). Evidently, swinging is more important to him than our marriage. He has said he will eventually reach a point where he can't take it anymore (not swinging) and will have to do something about it.
So fast forward to last night- H was in a foul mood, and wouldn’t say why. Later he admits that the local swingers club was having a wet T-shirt contest and he wanted to go, but didn’t say anything to me because he knows of my feelings lately and so sat around angry instead. And if anyone wonders what the big deal is about a wet T-shirt contest, keep in mind that the club is an “on-premises” club (means there’s bedrooms in the back- several theme bedrooms, a voyeur room (closed door but with a big window for the others viewing pleasure), a “community” room (no walls- anyone is free to join in the action)). The contest would devolve into a stripping contest with the winner being the one who’s willing to go down on the judges in front of everyone, or who does the best job of that in the event of more than one. My husband thinks this is great fun- why wouldn’t I want to put myself out like that? Oh yeah- those insecurity and self-esteem issues that he says I have… He has helpfully reminded me several times that medication is available for that. Funny how my IC doesn’t think I need it, and I don’t think I need it, just him.
As H has explained several times, there’s a big difference between love and sex. I’ve seen that debated, defended and otherwise discussed lately on this board, and boy did that strike a nerve. At least that guy wasn’t compartmentalizing while in an active marriage. Love is love and sex is sex, as it’s been explained to me, so even though DH wants to go out and f*** around, he’ll always will come home to me, because I’m the one he shares a life with, right? That means something special to him. (Yeah, it means I’m being used as a comfy home base...) His only rule throughout this was that I could sleep with whoever I wanted as long as I didn’t fall in love with the guy.
Unlike the other gentleman who has posted about this topic, H admits that our sex life is not lacking. It’s like three times a week on average, and hasn’t been better. But that doesn’t satisfy his need for sexual variety in partners. See if this analogy helps: A guy has filet mignon available to him every night. There is variety in how the filet is served, where the filet is served, and the optional side dishes, so it’s not the same all the time. However, there are nights when this guy is craving a cheeseburger, just for something totally different- doesn’t mean that he doesn’t appreciate the filet. Somehow, this doesn’t make me feel any better.
When he was originally trying to sell me on this, one of his angles was to present it as a gift to me- Sure, he wanted to do other women, but he was offering to let me f*** other guys, why wouldn’t I jump at the chance? Ideally for him, this would be a joint activity for us by finding other like minded couples, but if I don’t want to go along with this, he doesn’t see why he can’t find his own playmates. My first thought- “I don’t want another guy- I just want you!” How inconvenient for him to have a wife who wanted to be faithful…
Enforcing a no recreational sex boundary lately has resulted in an angry husband and a resulting bad case of nerves for me, waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop. I’m not sure how long I can keep it up. (That’s how I agreed originally- short version: the pressure was relentless and I was in state of desperation to save my marriage). So if walking away is not an option (because that selfish), that leaves me with eventually “taking one for the team”. I can fake it and smile, maybe in a few more years I’ll actually start believing the stuff he says.
Others have their theme songs, this could be mine: Who’s to know if your soul will fade at all? The one you sold to fool the world You lost your self-esteem along the way, yeah
Good god, you're comin’ up with reasons Good god, you're draggin’ it out And good god, it's the changin’ of the seasons I feel so right, so follow me down and just
Fake it, if you’re out of direction Fake it, if you don't belong, yeah Fake it, if you feel like infection Whoa, you’re such a f_______n’ hypocrite
You should know that the lies won't hide your flaws No sense in hiding all of yours You gave up on your dreams along the way, yeah
Good god, you're comin’ up with reasons Good god, you're draggin’ it out And good god, it's the changin’ of the seasons I feel so right so follow me down and just
Fake it, if you’re out of direction Fake it, if you don't belong, yeah Fake it, if you feel like infection Whoa, you’re such a f____n’ hypocrite
I can fake with the best of anyone I can fake with the best of them all I can fake with the best of anyone I can fake it all
Again, I’m know this note was p!$$y and I’m sorry. Any suggestions as to where I go from here? I hate where I’m at now… Last night we started talking about maybe separating, maybe trying a MC, but prospects look grim.
Do you want to save this marriage? Is it worth saving? Do you love him?
I have come up with a rule for me....I got from someone else, but it's excellent I think: Do NOT do anything as you are trying to save your marriage that you are NOT willing to do forever.....
That was the rule that helped me set some boundaries and made me more comfortable with other things....for example....do I do H's laundry or do I let him do it himself? Do I help H out during his weekends with S? Do I ML to H? I was able to answer yes to all of the above because I am more than happy to do those things for the rest of my life.
If my H wanted me to make dinner EVERY night, I would have to say no, because realistically, I can't do it every night. I have things I want to do, like yoga, tennis, dinner with friends, etc. (H doesn't ask me to do that anyways, just an example.
And yes, they are selfish, the WAS. But it's something you have to wait out....sort of like we expect our children to grow out of certain habits, adults can grow up to.
Setting and maintaining your own healthy boundaries is not selfish. If the swinger lifestyle is not for you, that's a decision YOU get to make. I don't see anywhere in your post that you told him to drop swinging or you were leaving, but ultimately, that decision is yours to make, too - or his if that's how he decides to deal with you not swinging. I'm new here myself, so possibly I'm talking out of turn, but from what I've read so far, I don't think every person who leaves a marriage is a WAS.
I'm not sure yet if I am or not. I mean, what - I was supposed to stay when certain of H's behaviors were putting our son at risk for physical harm, or when he invited the OW for a weekend romp *at our house, in our bed*?
Ok, I suppose I could have met her at the door and sent her packing but I wasn't strong enough at the time to do that. Don't see how that makes me selfish and not sure I see how what you've described makes you selfish either.
That being said, there *are* ways that I was selfish or inconsiderate in my marriage and I have to deal with the consequences of those things - but I'm not sure leaving was one of them.
Hang in there!
Dia
The trouble with having an open mind is that people put things in it.
My sitch - Divorce Busted! http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1804137#Post1804137
What makes you think you are the WAS? No, he has already walked away by participating in this stuff. You are the left behind spouse. The only difference is that because he is open to multiple partners, he is still willing to let you participate. But only if you partake of his new life. No, he is gone. You are left behind.
Enforcing a no recreational sex boundary lately has resulted in an angry husband and a resulting bad case of nerves for me, waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop. I’m not sure how long I can keep it up. (That’s how I agreed originally- short version: the pressure was relentless and I was in state of desperation to save my marriage). So if walking away is not an option (because that selfish), that leaves me with eventually “taking one for the team”. I can fake it and smile, maybe in a few more years I’ll actually start believing the stuff he says.
Again, I’m know this note was p!$$y and I’m sorry. Any suggestions as to where I go from here? I hate where I’m at now… Last night we started talking about maybe separating, maybe trying a MC, but prospects look grim.
Holy Crap is right!
Spybunny - correct me if I'm wrong but are you asking if you left H, are you the WAS, therefore selfish?
Seriously?
I almost couldn't believe what I was reading. You want to remain faithful and committed to your H, even to the point that you have done things that many would never dream of doing to try to save a M. IMO, you are the last person I'd ever call selfish. Trapped, manipulated, used...sorry to be blunt but I think those words are more accurate.
You need to look out for YOU. It's pretty apparent your H does not have your best interest in mind. Do not degrade yourself for H, if that is how you feel about swinging. It's like selling your soul to the devil.
IMHO I think you are on the right track with the MC or a separation or both. I know we are all here to save our Ms but in your case, I'm more worried about saving YOU than your M.
Do you have children?
Me: 39 H: 39 S: 15 M: 18 years Bomb: 6/3/09 H moved out: 10/15/09 H moved back:5/30/10
We have two kids- our son is 18 and leaving for college next month, our daughter is 16 and going into 11th grade. H said last night that he had really hoped that we could work this out, or failing that, make it long enough until the kids are out of the house. I'm not sure I want to wait two more years.
H hasn't removed our profile from the swinger's websites- I think he's waiting to see if i change my mind. (he also has a single male profile on those sites also). I've been pushing my boundary gradually rather than cutting it off cold-turkey. I don't know why I am so hesitant to be forceful, - no, yes I do, FEAR... Fear of him lashing out, fear of him leaving, fear of him agreeing to stop and hating me... I'm trying to get over that- that's why I've been going to the IC.
H is upset that I "haven't taken his concerns seriously" about my "insecurities and self-esteem issues." Yes, I'm a shy, quiet person- nothing wrong with that since I live productive life. But that is not a sufficient reason to start "Social Anxiety" meds. I was Paxil before for general anxiety when H threatened divorce several years ago. He claims that I was "more willing to try new things" when i was on it (i.e., swinging). Actually, it was the desperation, not the meds.
It feels like he can't see that not everything that is wrong with our marriage is NOT my fault. I've tried telling him, but it keeps getting reflected back on me. I don't know how to get through to him- it's the same discussion over and over.
I defy you to find one man (or woman) on this board who thinks you're out of line for having a problem with this.
Sorry, sister, but I want to slap your husband to China myself. He wants you to take anti-anxiety meds so you can be comfortable with swinging, not for you, only for him?
I know this is a pro-marriage board and all ... but in the immortal acronym of Dan Savage, DTMFA. Save yourself.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I do realize that. This whole thing is making me feel sick. I want out and that makes me feel like the bad guy. It would awfully embarrassing to explain to people why we're getting divorced because to a lot of people, this looks like a good marriage. And just like for everybody else here, this is going to cause a lot of pain and I'm the one pulling the trigger. It' seems like a lose-lose situation for me- damned if I do, damned if I don't.
In a case like this, you can only tell nosey people who have the nerve to ask about your S that it is based on very personal belief differences. I understand being concerned about what others think, but you can't stay in a M based on the fact it "appears" to be a perfect R to people. You are the one having to "live" it. God never intended for M people to include others into the intimacy. That is where you draw the line. The traditional marriage vows even say that.
Don't put up with lack of moral character & conduct. You are better than that and don't stoop to that type of lifestyle trying to hang onto your M. It doesn't work.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
