Sorry to bombard the BB with this but I really need some input!
This is getting very weird!
After going VERY dark since last week a few things happened.
Just called my friendly go-between and got told the following.
The friend called my go-between and asked if anyone had seen me. GB says - no and she's worried because no-body has seen me since Tuesday. I've got some cash for my W and arranged go-between to drop it off. Just as I'd put the phone down - go-between gets an SMS from W.
"Please ask Ken to drop money of at pub. Will pick up tomorrow. Don't want other people to be involved in this. H should have called me. We need to work this (finance?) out otherwise I'll have to do what I have to."
Now how do I open communication lines again?
I really think I need an unbiased third party involved but she won't agree to see anyone I line up because she thinks it will be a trick.
Just read your other thread. Your wife has accused you of basically being self-centered and never there for her. So you decide to go dark on her? That isn't a 180...it's par for the course. I'm not saying smother her with attention, but you might try showing in more subtle ways that she does matter. In light of your initial statements, I'm even more inclined to suggest you contact her. Meet in person...say you are sorry you didn't get in touch with her sooner. Give her the money (if you had already agreed to) and cut it short. If you get the opportunity though (ie she isn't too angry, isn't screaming at you), I'd suggest you inquire how she's doing and maybe letting her vent a bit. You need to reverse some of the things she accused you of the whole marriage...starting with being completely uncaring of anyone but yourself.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Hi there, Please understand that in writing my sitch, I was doing so through my wife's eyes. I have to agree with her because that's what she saw.
I'm taking on board what you've said and will act on it.
I just wish she would vent - it's the only time she becomes something like she was. I'm sure she's depressed and sees me not as the person who want's to help but The Problem.
A wonderful human being and the person I waited my whole life to marry.
Didn't tell you I've been "happily" unmarried until 49! She's been D'd once before.
The only reason I went dark was to gain some breathing space from the torrent of abuse from the "friend" and not to shut my wife out.
Space isn't a bad thing...helps you find your strength and detachment, but dark isn't necessarily the right thing. It can be a good thing if she goes off on you about your faults. There's only two reasons for her to even bother...she wants to see something different or she wants to justify leaving you.
Ever watch the 40 year old virgin (not saying you are...just asking if you've seen it). One guy suggests to the 40 year old virgin that you don't need to necessarily talk, "just ask questions". I don't think that's completely off base...you can have a conversation with her simply by listening to her spew forth stuff. Let her speak, listen carefully to what she says (don't prepare your response or start thinking how you'll defend yourself). Indicate you heard her. If she's right about what she's saying, then say, "I can see how you'd feel that way. I didn't get it...I'm sorry." If she's wrong you can still say, "sorry you feel that way", or "I can see how it would seem that way to you." Or just make a noise that indicates your listening. It's not really a conversation so much as you hearing her. Try it.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Pheonix2, thanks a million. I'll do it and give it my best shot. BTW - I hope going to a counsellor for the past six weeks - the day after this happened counts in my favor a little bit.
I would like to ask you some questions about yourself, so that we can better understand "who" you are. Are you considered to be a perfectionist? Do you demand a lot from people? Have people said that you are critical/fault finding? Are you considered to be a person who speaks in a positive or negative way to people? Does your W complain that you are withdrawn or cold? Maybe you don't understand my reasons for asking.....but it helps to know these things.
Perhaps I am not getting the full picture of your stitch, but as a woman, I can certainly tell why your W would be ready to walk away from a man who appears to be very self-centered and has the wrong idea of what a "wife's" role in M is all about.
First of all, one of the very first things that was brought out was about her having two miscarriages and she felt that you were not there to support her. As a woman who suffered from this myself, I can tell you that it can have tramatic affects on a woman. She may not have carried it full term, however, to her.....it was still her babies and she mourned for them. To some men, women should be able to put that in the past and move on. But if you did not give her the emotional support she needed during that time, the love she had for you was seriously damaged. I am not sure if a woman can overcome that enough or not b/c I had loving support so I have not been in her shoes. I can say that you would probably have to do many, MANY changes in self-improvement to be able to make amends for that behavior.
The next thing that really kept jumping off the page to me had to do with finances. Now, I have always been considered a thrifty person b/c I did not have money to blow at useless things. We have a modest home/car/etc. But some people can go to extremes--and it seems your mind is on the financial side a lot. You use words such as "management" & "budget" as well as other things. Perhaps this is very "normal" to you and see nothing wrong with that talk where your M is concerned or maybe it is just difference in "people". Maybe I am not seeing it as it is. I am only telling you how it appears from my POV.
I think it is a shame that you have waited until your W was completely "done" with the M before you got off your a$$ to look at "her" instead of yourself......and your needs. I it true that she would have to go home "TO COOK FOR YOU"? Must be hard now that she's gone. Who does the cooking now?
I would be interested to know who your "go between" is that you refer to. Is this a relative or a friend? Is this a man or a woman? If I missed a thread where you posted this information, I apologize.
Now, I do believe that friend of your W's is feeding this problem. I believe she went along to help your W pack her things from the house b/c your W may have needed friend's support in order to carry through with the move. (Women do like that, you know.) I know that most women get all worked up over conversation and influence from a friend. As long as she has this friend urging her on the path she's started, you may not stand much of a chance. However, don't "blame" all of this on the friend b/c you were the one that started the breakdown on the R and you need to be the one to get it turned in the right direction again.
I'm not sure what to advise you about this talk she wants to have. Why was she begging for money? I am not understanding this. You seem to be very critical of her not being able to get work, why is that? Did she work in the past and contribute to the household finances? If so, did you help her with the chores at home or did she work at the job and at home also?
These things all add up in a MR. If you were guilty of any of these things, then you have a lot of apologizing to do! If you are by nature a selfish man, then you must realize that it will not make for a good MR and you must be willing to place her first in your life. She must be over money, your job, or anybody else. That is what marriage is! If you are not willing to do that, then you need to forget trying to work things out and set her free.
In going dark, she may have felt that you endorsed her feelings about your "coldness" to her. Every stitch is different. The more you can tell us, the better we can help.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you far asking these questions. I do understand why you are doing so.
A perfectionist? Not totally in life but I am in my job. I'm a senior field technician and part owner of the largest Apple center in Africa (not a plug for business I promise Mr Moderator!) . I look after some of the biggest agencies 24/7. It's a little stressful I can tell you. I spend all day sorting other peoples problems out and I can't see my own! If I have to get help with any work related problems I can be a little "anal". Funny enough when things go well at home I can breeze through the day. Problems are like water off a ducks back. During this period I've been up and down like a yo-yo. When I see a small positive back from my wife, I'm over the moon - nothing is to much trouble. The opposite is also true. When things don't go right I don't jump up and down and loose my cool, I would rather work them out and get them fixed. Funny enough, the guys at work like me and respect me. They appreciate it when they tell me things that bother them and I stand up for them. I would consider myself to speak positively because that's in my nature. During this crisis I'm all over the place!
The miscarriages were the most traumatic times. We had not planned on having children at that time. It was an unexpected surprise but one we saw as a blessing. My wife always said I would be a good father. We went to the best pediatric doctor a few times to make sure everything was okay. One day a few (five?) weeks into the pregnancy my wife didn't feel right. We went back to the doctor who examined her and was told the bad news. He told us that the baby had not made it :-( and booked my wife into the clinic. Sandi, I was with her through every day. Through the good news and the bad. I took her to the clinic, walked her in, sat with her until the matron threw me out late into the night. I remember that there was a huge lightning storm that night. Didn't sleep much and went back to the clinic in the wee small hours and just sat in the car - numb. When I picked my wife up she didn't want to speak about it. I didn't want to hurt her and so - silence on the matter. The second miscarriage my wife seemed to treat like a trip to the dentist. I couldn't understand that. Looking back I see that she was feeling like God was against her/us. Sandi, I am the person to be most affected by any great sadness like this. It may seem trivial but I remember way back when my very first dog had 11 puppies. The runt of the litter was not at all well. My father drove us into town to the vet. The vet took a look, gave an injection and told me to pray for the best (a 5 year old!) The pup died on my lap on the way home. I buried him/her in shoe box in the woods behind our house with a lollypop cross. My second dog was found to have a faulty heart at the age of twelve. He spent his last days with me sleeping on the floor with him by my side listening to classical music. My third dog Ashley (MK1) was found to be riddled with cancer at the age of 10 after a cat scan. The vet asked me over the phone if I'd like to come say goodbye - I'm in tears now! I didn't go because I couldn't. My wife knows I'm at heart a very fragile person when it comes to death of any sort.
Finances: Thats a tough one. We USED to be considered well off. I never went for the biggest house (been in the same one since landing in Cape Town 21 years ago.) two bedrooms. Nice area. Same with the car - I'd rather have the best small range than the lowest high end. I've never aspired to collecting the greatest. Over the past few years things have become tough for everyone. Last year the shareholders had a letdown when the company share-out was cancelled. I was relying on that share. I shouldn't have but it was promised. We had wage freezes. Lowered christmas bonus's - and all sorts of other "reductions". This became a huge problem. I'd/we'd overstretched ourselves on credit. The rates went way up and I was beginning to panic. I tried to get an increase on the house bond and was told that because of bad debts at the credit agency it would not be approved. I was shocked - I hadn't defaulted on a single payment. I visited the branch manager and asked him to explain. He did - they weren't my bad debts on record - they were my wife's. My wife and I talked about them and I reassured her that they would be taken care of over time and not to worry. I would live in a tent if I could be with my wife! Eventually I took two weeks off work, called every single credit card company, made fixed payment arrangements and cut up every single card.
Wife's background - she ran her own fruit export company with her father. She was very self-assured and confident. When things got bad - the exchange rate got much worse - she lost her car - it was repossessed in front of our home. Not a problem - she could use our car. Not the point - it was HER car that they took away and it hurt. They had a few claims which destroyed the cash-flow and the company collapsed. Was she down? You bet. But we managed - just. Each month came and went and we managed.
My wife managed to get a job through an agency. She was extremely happy and became what she had been. Confident, would not go out mid week and drink with friends because of work next day. And "friend" would not be here at 1:00 until late killing time in our home. Just about perfect. Everyone was happy. The temp job was to be made permanent. My wife had been sent on a seminar, her boss told her how good she was - everything was looking so good for her to be made permanent. The job was advertised internally. She could not apply as she was a temp. No takers and it really was looking good. The the ad was placed in the newspaper. Three replies. Malindi did not get the job. She was told she was overqualified! ARRRRRGGGGGG!
So Malindi is now back at home. I DID say things would work out I promise. She devoted herself to keeping the house tidy and clean. She would do the entire house in a day. There was nothing left for me to do when I got home! We used to share all the cooking. I actually enjoy washing dish's. I would look after our entertainment area and she would do the rest. Now I do the lot.
When Malindi says she HAD to come home and cook - that was in the last argument - she was stuck in the pub. This is the last SMS fight :-(
25 May (Monday - fight night) Wife: My lovy, how are you? Can you please buy black bags, mushrooms, three cheeses mate and cheese? Janet brought a bread and milk around this afternoon. Thank you so much. Love you. X Wife: My lovy, still at the fox. Dont know, if you want to come straight here? Will go shop, when you get here. Janet will take me home. Soccer on. Let me know. Or I will leave know. Love you.
Me: Setting off now sweet. Been long day. C u @ fox. 5:30ish. Love u
We met had a few drinks until six. I said I would go shop. Wife said she would finish drink but didn't want to come with me. I put it off until 7 and hoped that she would come then after finishing another drink. She didn't. Wife promised to come home after finishing that one if I would go home and start things. Wife didn't. I called her and asked when to start cooking. She was still finishing another drink bought by "friend". She was quite snotty about me calling her "Do I mind etc.". So another SMS session which I'm not proud of.
Me (slipped!): Do
Wife: Do what?
Me: Do I mind? Would you like to do this lot and I'll come back to the fox? Work shop pack bin cook feed dogs and wait 4 u? What do u think? Oh and buy u 2 drinks and cigs! I need help!!!!
When my wife finally got home I was frazzled. I just had had it :-(
Money: My therapist said that Malindi needed time away from me to examine her feelings. He told me that giving her money would effectively reward her for moving out! Bulldust! But in the state I was I could only agree. After all he was a professional! So Malindi was in exactly the same position as she was at home. Asking for money. I'm not a mind reader Sandi. We used to shop together. Anything she felt we needed was just put in the basket and paid for. When Malindi was working she used to buy some of the groceries but all the bills, bond etc. I would take care of.
I'm not critical of her being out of work. It just seemed that she was going down and down and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. As I said - we used to do our fair share of everything together.
I'm more than willing to take the whole load on my shoulders. I'm taken a good long hard look at myself and recognized my shortcomings both in myself and in my relationship with my wife. I'm in the position now of putting her above ALL else.
Our mutual go-between (female) said she would have dropped me like a hot brick if she thought I didn't love may wife. My therapist said this to me when I asked him what he thought my progress had been....
"I found you to be honest with me and it is clear that you love your wife, that you confessed having made mistakes (which is great) and that you are willing to change and become a beter husband. I also found that you are a soul in pain and that triggered my instinct to protect and help. I have experiences pain more than once in my life and therefore I want to help people when they suffer."
I'm sure my wife could have proceeded with the D weeks ago. She is rather now saying I need to support her AND I DO NEED TO DO THAT. How do I explain that it's going to be so difficult to effectively be paying for two households - the money does not stretch anywhere near that far. We were JUST making it through the month and my wife knows that. I really don't know if this is some sort of test to see if I really CAN take care of her financially. The other part of caring for her I have in spades! I feel she just doesn't KNOW. Like I just don't KNOW what is going through her beautiful head.
Going dark was wrong. I'm turning my cell back on and will look forward (not) to all the SMS messages.
I'm going to cal her and ask if she feels up to a visit.
Kind regards Sandi.
Hope you can provide some valuable insight in how to rectify my shortcomings. I'm just getting so damn confused. I should have gone with my gut feelings long ago and opened up to her. She's a wonderful caring person who I love above all else.
I took the bull by the horns and just called my wife asked how she was and if she felt up to a visit. She said she was fine and sounded it. Malindi asked how I was - I said fabulous. Then asked if I'd taken two weeks off (how did she know that??). Said yes because I couldn't put up with Mark because of all his negativity to our situation (3 times D'd) and knew what he thinks I should do! Malindi said she wasn't at home so I couldn't come round today. She asked about my phone being broken and then asked if she could come and see ME tomorrow night after work! She knows I'm off for two weeks so that means she's found a job!?!?! SO proud of her!!!!
That's put me on such a high! She must be feeling great that SOMEONE is prepared to give her a chance!
Hugs to her, to you lot and I'm going to give myself one!
