H wants a D so we can date...each other! WTF??!

[Trixi]

I haven't posted in for-ev-er.
I bought a POS trailer a few weeks ago that my H is helping me fix up. We plan to go on vacation for 10 days in August. We see each other every weekend, once during the week. He started coming with me to see my counselor because he is really good about helping both people see the other person's views. Sounds great, doesn't it?
Yeah, but....
today in counseling we are talking about how he is afraid if we live together again we will end up in a rut/go back to how things were. (nothing new there.) He also said that he can't seem to let me go; that clearly we love each other. He's very ambivalent. Near the end he is talking about how he doesn't like the piece of paper (ie the marriage) that is boxing us in. That we should start with a clean slate, date each other and if we want/it's working out, we can work towards getting married again and making a "real" commitment. He is completely serious about this.

I was upset (of course) and said that I thought he was underestimating the impact that a D would have on me/our relationship and the amount of work he would be creating for himself.
My counselor stepped in and said that he is going to walk us thru some communication techniques next time. (Like I said, it was right near the end of the session, so he was eager to stop us from heading too far down the path at that point.)

It seems to me that there must be some other way to deal with this without getting a divorce. I understand the concept of wanting a clean slate, but if we divorce, how would I ever believe he wouldn't do it again? Not to mention, he has said he doesn't want to get married again now that he "has two failed marriages". That he hadn't wanted to get married after his first marriage, but he took a chance with me and then I "disappeared" on him. (The stupid thyroid thing.)

I feel like I am in the twilight zone. I don't understand wtf is going on. I can't imagine agreeing to get a divorce AND dating him at the same time.

[Purple]

Oh Lordy. this sounds like my h only he doesn't want a D. He just doesn't want to live with me.

The phrase 'cake eating' springs to mind.

What about if you said to him. "sure we can divorce and then date again, but it won't be an exclusive relationship and I'll be dating others. How do you feel about that, h?"

[Trixi]

What about if you said to him. "sure we can divorce and then date again, but it won't be an exclusive relationship and
I'll be dating others. How do you feel about that, h?"

LOL- I wish I could be that cavalier!

I feel conflicted (can you believe it?!)
Here's how my thoughts/feelings go:
..If he divorces me, I don't want to talk to him again. He will be dead to me.
..Yes, but I love him. He is my best friend. How can I cut him out of my life? He adopted my daughter, his son is like my own. We are forever family.
..But I married him for life and if he can't honor that, then I need to be able to move on and find a real man who can live up to that and has the same values.
..But maybe he *is* that man, but truly needs to feel free so he can freely choose me once and for all.
..what a bunch of BS. Why are you fighting to save something he has left and has no respect for?
..Isn't that the plight of the LBS? Fighting for something the WAS says they don't want anymore? Maybe counseling will help. Maybe we'll find understanding on how to move forward.
..F*@% counseling! Why go there to be tortured? He just wants to go so he can talk you into a nice divorce while you vacation together and date eachother. Screw that! Damn straight it's 'cake eating'!
..But he said that he was open to counseling helping us.
..snort, yeah, right! He's leading you to he slaughter.
..It's not right. We love each other. We enjoy being together. We have no 'grounds' for divorce. Who dates someone that they are divorcing?? This is such a weird situation. He is just scared that it will go back to how it was and doesn't see another way. I know there has to be another way.
..But why stay married to do that? Maybe he is right. Maybe divorce makes the most sense. right now all we have *is* a piece of paper.
..But I made a vow.
..I will never forgive him if he lets me go. Never. If he does come back at that point, he can go f*@& himself.
..How can I say that about someone I love? Of course I'd want to give him another chance.
..Then I'd be an idiot. My family would hate him. He would have to crawl over broken glass to prove he was trust worthy. He has already left anyway-- divorce would be a formality. Why can't you get that thru your thick skull??? Just give him what he wants and tell him to leave you alone.
..No! But I'd miss him.
..What the hell would I miss? Being toyed with?
..that's not all that happens. He helps me around the house. He's helping me with the trailer. We have fun together.
..whoopdee do.

And on and on it goes. I feel "immature" for not agreeing with him that divorce and dating is the best thing. Maybe immature is the wrong word...maybe I mean that I somehow feel like I must not be as "evolved" as him. That my ego is standing in my way of letting love do what ever it does. The old "if you love something, set it free." OTOH, HE is the one that comes back to me. Nobody is making him reconnect with me. I don't call him. I haven't stopped him from moving forward.

I guess he wants to know I'm okay with it...well, I'm NOT okay with it. It's stupid.
UGH!

[Sara]

This is fun! No need to comment, you know all the arguments from every side! It's tough, Trixi. I'm curious though, looking at your marriage, not from a love standpoint, but from a financial standpoint, does it benefit you to stay married? Do you get health insurance, security for retirement? Would you be giving those up by getting a divorce. I never thought about those things in my 40's, but in my 50's, I see that they are very important.

[Trixi]

It does benefit me to stay married. I sell real estate and as such, there is no 'free' medical/dental insurance. I can figure my expenses will go up at least $300/mo for that. He currently is paying my auto insurance and it is reduced because all our policies are thru the same company. There's at least another $100/mo. (Need to have good coverage because I haul people around in my car.)

The only "benefit" I can see to getting a divorce, is that I would get half the 401K and could immediately liquidate a portion to pay off my credit cards and use the money for a down payment on the house I rent. That part is appealing to me.

I went and saw the counselor today because I wanted his take on the whole thing. He said he is actually very hopeful. That it means something that my H is actually willing to explore these things. He will be giving us "couples dialoguing" tools to use next time and said we will probably be a little frustrated at how slooooowwww it is, but it will give us the ability to really hear what the other person is saying and to be more 'curious'. And that as we both feel safer exposing deeper and deeper feelings, we'll be able to see what is *really* going on.

He said that clearly my H is very confused and that bottom line, he doesn't want to be hurt again and that somehow, H thinks not being married is how to avoid being hurt. (When, the reality is, putting your heart out there means there is a risk for being hurt.)

Anyway, I said that I was worried that I was being led to the slaughter and he said that if I was (which at this point, he doesn't think is what;s happening), but IF I was, then that would show something about H's character and it might make it easier for me to walk away.

Oddly enough, it seems that everytime things start to go really well, my H has to start backing off. We had a really great weekend; worked on the trailer, worked on his jeep--went to fireworks, a movie, ate, drank wine...it was a super nice weekend. Monday he came over, too. We snuggled on the couch and talked about our childhood memories and fave Twilight Zones. And then two days later he is talking about a divorce as being a 'clean slate'. UGH!

Counselor wants to explore the 'clean slate' thing.
I totally "get" wanting to have a clean slate, but the problem is, in creating the so called clean slate, he will be sh!tting all over it. And thus, it will be dirty, if that makes any sense at all.

I must be too romantic. We went to see UP and to me, *that* relationship was what marriage is about. Is that silly? (if you haven't seen UP, you won't know what I mean.) I feel like I am losing what's left of mind.

[Trixi]

I blew it.
Last night he spontaneously suggests we meet to see Ice Age 3D which I jump at the chance. (so far, so good)
We're sitting in the theater and I ask what time he will be over (today). Originally, the plan had been he would be over "late morning/early afternoon" and we would do a dump run. (Left overs from all the work on the trailer.) He answers that he'll come over to get stuff for the dump, then he has to "go do something" and then he'll come back. He'll call me. I was like "'Go do something'?" He replied 'Yeah, just something." Anyway, he finally tells me that he wants to go look at ski boats. (This is where I blew it.) I looked at him and said "I'm worried about how the hell I am supposed to buy the house and you are going to buy a ski boat.?" UGH! I could see it run thru his head that it's not my business, it's 'his' money, *this* is why we should get a divorce. No, he didn't say these things, but his body languaged shifted.

I owned up to feeling jealous. I said "I have a TV that is starting to die (it's 10 years old and is getting a weird pink area on the screen), I have one car, I bought a $400 turd instead of a trailer I really want, and I am frantic about how to afford the house. You have a new giant flat screen, 5 cars...I feel jealous. Immature I know, but that's how I feel." I also owned up to feeling like it was something else he would shut me out of his life on.

There's more to it, though. When we lived together, there was a couple times where he went out on a friends ski boat and stayed out til 7am and 11am *with no calls*. That same friend cheated on his wife. My H just had to spend many thousands of dollars retaining a lawyer to dispute his dui. I feel like I am watching resources that I need disappear.
He buys things to make himself feel better, they do temporarily and then later he realizes they didn't really do the trick.

He is afraid of us living together and me "controlling" him and look what I did. We don't live together and I "disapproved". (While I was flooded with emotions, he was like "You don't approve.")
I am so mad at myself. I feel like we were about to make some headway in counseling and now this. I want to just go "Wow, that's awesome! Good for you! Can I come out with you on it?" I want to make it 'safe' for him to reconnect, and then I blow it.
GRRRRRR..... I wish we already had the dialoguing tools the counselor will give us next week. CRAP!

[Trixi]

Had talk w/H about this ski-boat thing and my concerns/fears. It went pretty well, I think. We'll see what happens on that front.

Hadn't been on FB for awhile and someone had dropped me a line so I logged in. I have taken H out of my newsfeed, but I still see when he is tagged in photos, etc. (Not sure how to turn that off.)
Anyway, I saw that he was recently tagged in photos of a beer-float rafting trip and also company party. Neither of which I knew about. In the past he had invited me (and I declined), but since I got thyroid corrected, I have asked to be invited and he has not. I did comment this past weekend on how tan he was and asked what he'd been doing to be so tan and he never answered. Now I know why.

A comment he made in counseling this last time (which now makes a lot more sense) is that he says he wishes he could take me places and say "This is Trixi and I love her. We're together", but because he's not sure where we will end up, he can't do that. At the time, I didn't realize he was talking about specific recent events. "He wishes"...like it's not in his control.

I feel like he must be ashamed of me. I mean seriously. If he was dating someone, would he leave them behind because he wasn't sure they would get married? Puh'leese. Is that what people do? Leave behind their BF/GF because they don't know what will happen in the future? I am afraid to bring it up in counseling lest it be called "pressure".

Admittedly, I have not always been my best self in the past at his company functions. He would leave me for long stretches of time to go talk with people/smoke. I would end up feeling abandoned and alone and my displeasure would show. OTOH, I would observe other couples and they would pretty much stick together, so I don't know that I was being 'unreasonable'.

Sucks to be left out. I feel like the last kid to be picked for a team.

[karen43]

Your H sounds like a total a$$ sorry, but that's how I see it. He seems to care way more about himself than you. He treats you like crap. He's got you walking on eggshells while he does so. He sounds too immature to be married. I would ask your C about that because he doesn't sound like he wants to work on that either. He sounds flaky and immature. He also seems to be hiding things from you, and that's troublesome too. I think if he does divorce you, you clearly should move on. You deserve better.

I think you need to really embrace DB and GALing and be a strong woman. I don't think any man should treat you like that nor should you allow it. Karen

[Trixi]

Thanks for dropping by karen43. Do you have a thread going?

I guess I look at other divorcing couples and that is where my confusion comes in. We still have an active sex life. We enjoy spending time together. He helps me with my household projects. He's the one that comes back to me. Our wedding collage that my mom made is still hanging up in 'our' house.
....
I really do feel like I'm going a bit crazy. Half of me is pee-issed because he leaves me out of things; I'm hidden away. He won't commit. But then I think about how he spent the whole day replacing the brakes and axle on my trailer; brainstorming on how to make it cuter. How he has given me $$ to help with the costs.

Actually, I just threw my back out and I think a huge part of it is because I am not expressing how hurt and angry I am.
Maybe counseling will help with this. I have a bad feeling that my vacation is not actually going to happen.

[karen43]

My thread is in Infidelity. I've been going through a never-ending D so weird that I would recommend it to anyone. I really don't usually.

It sounds like there is some good stuff in your R. But it sounds like a dating relationship rather than a marriage. If you're content having your H as a bf long-term then you could just keep doing what you're doing.

Do you have an IC? I think that's a great way to vent. I also vent here too. And occasionally to friends. Exercise helps too.

Have you read DR yet? I really recommend that completely. Some of the things 180s and GALing are so helpful. Karen