So it begins to get over my wife

[gucci loafer]

Sorry JR....

I have been busy with some things on the personal front.

Jury duty will be going into the 3rd day...

Just found out that Mrs. Gucci's BIL and her sister have separated. He told her he wanted "space"......

This happened two weeks ago and she just told my wife the details....

She wants our advice... I will let you all know what happens. This will be a good opportunity for me to show some people on here how to get this done without outside influence of others who don't know what they are talking about.

Mrs Gucci will be her confidant

As far as you go JR... YOU BLEW IT... Shame on you.
This was one of the reasons that I told you that you were not ready for the "I have been doing some thinking speech. (pat on back to Gooch for not allowing you to do this before you are ready....

NOW.. Get back up and stop the backslides. If you continue to backslide you are slowly (or quickly) destroying your best chances.

You need an academy award performance here on out....

I want to be saying to you....."And the Oscar goes to.......................

[JoshuaRobert]

Sorry JR....

I have been busy with some things on the personal front.

Jury duty will be going into the 3rd day...

Just found out that Mrs. Gucci's BIL and her sister have separated. He told her he wanted "space"......

This happened two weeks ago and she just told my wife the details....

She wants our advice... I will let you all know what happens. This will be a good opportunity for me to show some people on here how to get this done without outside influence of others who don't know what they are talking about.

Mrs Gucci will be her confidant

As far as you go JR... YOU BLEW IT... Shame on you.
This was one of the reasons that I told you that you were not ready for the "I have been doing some thinking speech. (pat on back to Gooch for not allowing you to do this before you are ready....

NOW.. Get back up and stop the backslides. If you continue to backslide you are slowly (or quickly) destroying your best chances.

You need an academy award performance here on out....

I want to be saying to you....."And the Oscar goes to.......................

gucci, i'm sorry to hear your situation. i know you will be a tremendous asset to your family during this time.

what is your advice on how i should continue? i firmly believe i brought HER back from the brink of calling it quits with what happened today. i believe i pushed HER far enough, and needed to reel her back in a bit. in the meantime, i'm really trying to figure out how i really feel about this. my heart isn't in it anymore. my mind is trying to hang on to the fact that i invested my everything into her and that it would some how be a mistake to just throw it out the window. that's a stupid reason to continue down the path i'm going.

at this point in time i really don't care what she is thinking or feeling. for the firs time since this all happened, i'm truly thinking about just how i feel. my performance going forward can now be totally detached from emotion because i don't know if this is even what i want anymore. but i do think i owe to myself to see if i feel ANYTHING AT ALL for her anymore.

let me know your opinion on how i should move forward. i will say i'm not changing plans for the upcoming wednesday visit. that was actually on my terms, and SHE AGREED to it. so with that being said, how do i handle the impending visit?

[JoshuaRobert]

and to answer everyone else's points or questions, (which i do appreciate all of them) goes like this.


The "OW" in my life is nothing right now. the deepest conversation we've gotten into is that she went to the eye doctor the other day and she needs to up her prescription on her contacts.

my close female friend is only a friend, and i've known her for quite some time. she has amazing insight into my W's head and way of thinking because they share SO MANY CHARACTERISTICS. she says almost verbatim what you guys on here tell me. only with the knowledge of my W and my sitch. she's been a tremendous help. she's also been divorced twice, and has emphasized alot of what my W has felt and is feeling. she's been a tremendous help, and she is the one who strongly believes i needed to pull her back from the edge a little bit with everything that happened this last week. and i agree.

and in talking to my close female friend, she says she can hear it in my words and in my voice that my heart just isn't in it anymore. my mind might still be a little bit, but that creates a whole new set of problems on it's own.

and to finish, the problems in the R were not ALL HERS. they were mine also as i enabled a codependent R to continue as i didn't have a clue it was happening. that enabled her to do alot of the things she did and not take responsibility for them, and she STILL HASN't to a large extent.

i'm not lost right now, i'm just really questioning if this IS what I want. i'm not getting any younger, and I don't want someone who just keeps running in and out of the R I'm in.

I just want to know how to proceed with her, without allowing her to sink back into her old ways. I want her to pursue me if that is truly what she wants, but in the meantime, i need to figure out what I WANT. i'm not trying to push her away. actually i'm not doing anything. she still is the first one to contact me, even with today. i just made it seem like it wasn't (long story and a little deceitful but oh well).

i'm not asking anyone to tell me what i want. i just want to know how to proceed while i figure it out.

[MrBond]

"as i enabled a codependent R to continue as i didn't have a clue it was happening. that enabled her to do alot of the things she did and not take responsibility for them, and she STILL HASN't to a large extent."

This doesn't sound like accepting responsibility. What specific issues did she have with you? Did you have a temper? Spend lots of money, etc. Those kinds of issues.

I think if you can look at your flaws and hers and come to some kind of understanding it'll help give you compassion and clarity. If you don't have the compassion (the ability to understand what she's going through by being in her shoes) for her any more (which is what really sustains a M) then it's not going to work long-term.

I don't know what gucci's take is on this because he's spent alot of time telling you how to bring her back but without any emotion tied to it. That seems to be what you're struggling with.

AAK is right. Emotions come and go. Just start with going into meeting her with no expectations. Maybe you need to go into it completely neutral and see if after the talk if it's worth a shot.

Good luck to you.

[JoshuaRobert]

"as i enabled a codependent R to continue as i didn't have a clue it was happening. that enabled her to do alot of the things she did and not take responsibility for them, and she STILL HASN't to a large extent."

This doesn't sound like accepting responsibility. What specific issues did she have with you? Did you have a temper? Spend lots of money, etc. Those kinds of issues.

I think if you can look at your flaws and hers and come to some kind of understanding it'll help give you compassion and clarity. If you don't have the compassion (the ability to understand what she's going through by being in her shoes) for her any more (which is what really sustains a M) then it's not going to work long-term.

I don't know what gucci's take is on this because he's spent alot of time telling you how to bring her back but without any emotion tied to it. That seems to be what you're struggling with.

AAK is right. Emotions come and go. Just start with going into meeting her with no expectations. Maybe you need to go into it completely neutral and see if after the talk if it's worth a shot.

Good luck to you.

thank you stuck.

i'm preparing myself for wednesday by not having any expectations. i just truly want to see if i feel ANYTHING when she is here.

and as far as what you asked, i was the finance officer of the household. i let her pretty much spend our money on what she wanted AS LONG as we had enough for the bills to be paid. i actually rarely bought anything for myself, usually she spent money on unnecessary items, which i wouldn't even comment on, i know it sometimes showed on my face though.

i never once in our entire R called her a name, although she called me several during our R to push my buttons. I only got angry once with her when she endangered her freedom by doing something dumb. i was like her dad. THAT was a problem. nobody shoudl have to care FOR someone else. caring about them is what it should be. again, codependency at it's worst.

i spent the first 4 weeks analyzing myself after she left. i worked on my perception of the situation and our past R, and came to grips with it. however, since she's been gone, i've also looked at how she LEFT the R and how immature she was in the manner she did it. i stood by her side the entire time we were together and supported her mentally and emotionally. i never left her once, yet she was able to pack up and leave in the fashion she did. i don't know how i'm going to accept that and never think she isn't capable of just doing it again. even if i am able to successfully overcome the former nature of a codependent R. i DO NOT want to go through this again with ANYBODY.

and for the record, i guess she thought i was controlling in the regard she didn't have absolute freedom to do whatever she wanted. she had more freedom in our R then anyone i know of, she just constantly craved that independence. now she has it and says it's not the same because i'm not there to share it with her. whatever. i'm working on me. she either gets on the bus or it's leaving without her.

[gucci loafer]

but now i have a problem. after talking to my close female friend, i really do believe i am over my W. maybe not mentally, but i think my heart is really over her. i put forth all my effort into the R we had, and she was still able to pick up and leave. i've talked about before wanting answers to why she did it, but i really don't care now.

You call that a PROBLEM? That isn't a problem, but the solution.


THEY DON'T USUALLY COME BACK UNTIL THEY FEEL YOU HAVE LET GO.


She needs to FEEL you have let go. Since you are telling me that you feel you have let go, then that means you are on the right track. That means you are becoming healthy. To have a healthy relationship it take two healthy people. (one down, and one to go huh?)


NOW.. Since you are becoming healthy, you need to have enough healthiness to admit that you don't want to be in a relationship with someone who is NOT healthy. (which would be your wife)

The question becomes... "How does she become healthy and how do I help her to become healthy?"

The answer is that you DON'T help her become healthy. You have to let her get to the point where she CHOOSES to become healthy and wants to become healthy.

What made you want to work on the relationship and want to make it work? What helped you to take a look at YOU?

Wasn't it the "crisis" of losing her? Wasn't it the crisis that she seemed to have "let go of you?" Suddenly you wanted to do whatever it took to be with her. Did that not include anything and everything that you could find or read or learn about how to be a better husband?

Of course you did.

This is why it works best to reconcile by allowing HER to go through a "crisis" (of major proportions) It is the crisis that sparks people to change their behavior.

She has to come to the point where she is telling herself AND you that SHE is now willing to do anything and everything to make your relationship work. She is not in the "crisis" point yet. You have to be healthy enough to allow her to go through it as you did. THAT takes someone who is healthy to understand how important that is.


She then would be telling YOU and showing you with her words and actions that she means business.

The healthy person either moves on if she fails to respond to your new healthy attitude OR they set the ground rules and the conditions of the attempt at reconciliation...


This is why the "I have been doing some thinking becomes so important in the timing.....


She HAS to tell you why SHE wants to try. You then say things like... "Well, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't know what they want. I don't want to be with somone who will have an affair. I don't want to be with someone who swears at me. We argue too much. I don't WANT to be with a woman who argues with me all the time. I can now see why you moved out and understand why you did. It WASN'T working. You were right and I now realize it."


You don't reconcile UNTIL your conditions are met. (do you know what YOUR conditions are?) If she is truly interested in reconciling then THAT is the start to a successful reconcilation. You DO NOT reconcile BEFORE.

Of COURSE you have things you are going to change. Of COURSE you did things that you shouldn't do again. You don't agree to those UNTIL she agrees to your conditions.

THAT is what will make your relationship healthy, it will make the reconciliation have a much better chance of working and it will allow each of you to work on yourself.

You can't make this work if you are healthy and she isn't. You would be foolish (and not healthy) to allow HER to be back with you until SHE has done some self examination...


CRISIS is what is the catalyst to get most people to consider a change. Allowing her to FEEL she may have lost you is the catalyst that is your best chance for her to go through that crisis. Allow her to go through the threat of irrevocably losing you. It sure worked on you and I have seewn it work on most of the people on this site. And yet many can't seem to see this reality.


Hold the line. Nothing wrong with standing strong and showing her that YOU HAVE BEEN DOING SOME THINKING... AND you HAVE. Good for you.

[MrBond]

Ah, got it. So it was the typical father-figure relationship. Understandable given her age.

"she had more freedom in our R then anyone i know of, she just constantly craved that independence."

She had more freedom than any "married" person you know of. There's a difference. She's acting out as any 21 year old would. You mentioned that she seemed more mature than her actual age. Obviously that's not the case.

Pardon this "psycho babble" but it seems like it's more of a father daughter R where she doesn't want to lose the stability you offer, but wants the independence to go and experience the life she feels she's missing out on. Kind of like when we're teenagers and tell our parents that they can't tell us what to do, yet we go back and ask them for the keys to the car.

I don't think she's mature enough to actually put into words what's going on in her head, so you probably won't get an answer. Gucci says you have to wait for her to tell you why you should take her back or whatever, but it doesn't sound like she knows. So you might end up waiting for an answer that she honestly can't answer right now.

Maybe one of your conditions is that you both see a solution-based C if you decide to give it a go. IMO

[aliveandkicking]

Great post Gucci.

And Stuck...

Good stuff.

[sandi2]

Hi Josh,

Been catching up on your thread. See where you are at last beginning to feel the detachment kicking in. But remember that it was only the other night you were saying:

i wanted her to stay tuesday nite so bad. i really did.

So, I'm not offering anything more than what the others have said except maybe to say don't rely upon too much from your own emotions. Emotions cannot always be trusted. Believe me....as a WAW...I know. Dr. James Dobson wrote a book about not always trusting one's emotions and man, was he right about that! What I'm saying is that I truly hope you are detaching enough to make wise decisions and do what is best and not b/c she hooked you into sleeping with her or something like that. I know you have been kind of up & down with this thing and maybe you just needed to get a belly-full before you had enough. But, something tells me it isn't over. When she comes Wednesday (but I doubt she waits that long), don't be surpirsed when you have all those old familiar feelings come rushing back in.

It's kind of like having a huge meal and afterwards deciding that you have the will power to go on a diet. It's easy right at that moment, b/c you aren't hungry. However, when you see a beautiful meal laid before you, it is very tempting. Not to say you've had a "meal" lately, but you may realize just how hungry you really are when she shows up. So, be careful and think DBing. Be sure about what you want to do before you make any "final" decisions.

[sandi2]

Don't keep us in suspense. What's going on?