She did, and I postponed any discussion 'til tonight. As for my earlier "might" comment, I guess it just is a reflection of how I feel - ambivelant. Maybe we shouldn't talk tonight? Help, please.....Mike
Ok, apparently I suck at this because it all came unwound today. I went out for a motorcycle ride this morning and texted her when I was having bfast and said that if she needed to get anything from the house please do it while I was away. I also said I wanted to discuss our living arrangements later tonight and asked if she would be available later. She texted back "OK, please ride safe".
2 hours later I pull up to our house and there are 4 people (all family) carting boxes out of the house. I find her and ask what she is doing and she says moving out (into D's house). I ask why and she says "that's what I thought your text message meant" I said, NO, No, I only meant that I had switched bedrooms between us and I did not want her to move out; that was never my intention (mind reading and projecting are 2 of her key issues; she "knows" what I'm going to do or say and acts accordingly, often with these types of issues). She says she needs to be away from me, that my behavior the last 2 days has convinced her we need to be apart and she needs to be alone again. Same as before, she interpreted 2 emails and a voice mail to fit her views, not reflecting what I actually said or felt. We talk for awhile and I say she is just running away again, just like every other relationship she has ever had; when things get difficult she builds a wall, separates and then finds a reason to leave. She agrees and says "that's my way of protecting myself". She says she thinks the changes I have made these past 5 weeks are amazing but that I'll never get past the affair and she just wants to move on, be apart for awhile. I point out that she created half of the problems that she finds so difficult now to deal with, and she agrees, but doesn't think it's worth trying to save.
I ended up just saying fine, go if you have to, I'm still going to the MC on Thursday and she should show up only if she wants to. I send her an email later stating that I am committed to saving the marriage but she needs to step up and participate if that's going to happen. I also tell her that I realize this is what she has been trying to do for months now (leave me) but didn't have the will or courage to just do it so she used my text as justification for the departure. I said, that's fine, so what you need to do and that I will not contact her again to discuss marital issues; the next move is hers.
So, here we are. I thought I made a lot of good moves this weekend and that things would start to swing my way with the OM out of the picture and her deleting the secret email accounts. It went totally another direction and I don't know what to do now. I'm still GALing, need to do better with the 180's apparently and I clearly need to get back into DR again. I'm lost, there seems like there is no hope; she's too damaged from her past and our recent issues and she only knows how to cut and run. I don't know how to reach her anymore. Please help me turn this boat around (if possible). Mike
I can't possibly help you if you keep going off and doing what you're determined to do. I'm not trying to be harsh or anything, but let's face something: your instincts haven't exactly worked, have they.
You come on here on Saturday, a wreck, asking for help, and we tell you NOT TO DO ANYTHING, and you go and pack up all her stuff, have a major confrontation with her. Then we tell you not to contact her, and NOT to have any R talks, and you're doing it the very same day.
Whoa, whoa - I didn't pack up anything. She did that while I was out of the house. The only talk we had was when I came home today to find her taking her stuff out of the house and I asked why; I was caught totally by surprise. I didn't deviate from your advice at all.
Mike - IMO go dark now. Say and do nothing and wait for her to contact. Do as PDT suggests , get some legal ADVICE. Does not have to be acted on just do some ground work.
Hopefully it will not come to that, but be prepared. Do not let her know what your doing , where you are, how you feel until she approaches you and talk only when you know with certainity that you can speak with the strength and certintly you felt before. Any show of weakness here and I think you begin a long hard upward climb. Remember you have the moral high ground here and you need to keep it.
As hard as it is , keep busy doing things for you.
I can't possibly help you if you keep going off and doing what you're determined to do. I'm not trying to be harsh or anything, but let's face something: your instincts haven't exactly worked, have they.
You come on here on Saturday, a wreck, asking for help, and we tell you NOT TO DO ANYTHING, and you go and pack up all her stuff, have a major confrontation with her. Then we tell you not to contact her, and NOT to have any R talks, and you're doing it the very same day.
I'm afraid I can't help you.
Puppy
Puppy-
please read my response above; I did not box her stuff up, I did not initiate a conversation with her until I came home Sun afternoon to find her moving out and then I asked why? Our conversation was not confrontational; it was honest and not angry. She sent me a text later that night apologizing for misinterpreting what I said but thought we should just let things settle for a few days and she'll call me to talk later this week. I've gone dark, no contact, waiting for her to contact me.
We were doing well with therapy and discussions until Friday when the real OM issue came about and this has set us back . She is willing to sit down and fully disclose the facts of the relationship and that's a good sign. This is a setback but is still salvageable and I would really appreciate your help. I can understand your frustration about not having any R talks but what should I have done when I came home and found her packing up; she gave no prior indication she was leaving and I did not ask her to leave or want her to leave. She made an assumption, made a poor decision and it caught me totally by surprise. When I could see she just wanted to be apart I stopped the discussion and she left.
Mike - IMO go dark now. Say and do nothing and wait for her to contact. Do as PDT suggests , get some legal ADVICE. Does not have to be acted on just do some ground work.
Hopefully it will not come to that, but be prepared. Do not let her know what your doing , where you are, how you feel until she approaches you and talk only when you know with certainity that you can speak with the strength and certintly you felt before. Any show of weakness here and I think you begin a long hard upward climb. Remember you have the moral high ground here and you need to keep it.
As hard as it is , keep busy doing things for you.
Pollyanna, thanks for the advice - that's exactly what I'm doing. Hopefully she shows up Thursday for MC; time will tell.
Not sure why I'm updating this but I'm going to anyway just in case anyone wants to advise me from here.
After she moved out Sunday afternoon without warning I just stopped initiating contact. She called me Tuesday mid-morning and wanted to talk. She was really hurting about the weekends events, said she felt totally alone (no OM, no marriage, no job prospects) and broke down crying. I asked what she wanted to do and she didn't know. I said I was willing to try and work through our issues but she needed to start being engaged. She said "I just don't think it's fair" and when I asked what she meant she said she didn't think it was fair to me that I had to support her since she lost her job, it wasn't fair to me that I would have to hear the details about the A, it wasn't fair to me that she was putting us through so much pain. She said "I just don't want to keep hurting you" and she started to cry very hard. I suspect this driven by was her guilt/shame from the A and, since I had not been a very supportive husband in the months preceding "the bomb", I used this opportunity to do a 180.
I told her in a very calm, compassionate voice that the choice to support her after her job loss was mine and still is, that I couldn't imagine she could tell me any details about the A that I hadn't already imagined in my mind hundreds of times already, that I cared about her as a person and a friend. I suggested that we take a step back and just be friends for awhile, and that my primary concern at this point was that she get help in addressing her issues and building the skills she needs to be in a healthy relationship. If that relationship was ours, great, but I was fully prepared for our M to be over. I asked if she was going to the MC on Thursday and she said no way this week, too painful, but asked if I would be willing to let her see the MC without me. I agreed, as I had been trying to get her to look into IC so she could address the issues she had prior to our marriage (inability to set and maintain boundaries, inability to stand up and state her needs, poor communication skills during "bad" times, prior abuse baggage). She was still very upset and I asked if she wanted to come over for a hug and "no talk" and she agreed.
She arrived and hugged me hard (first time in weeks) and we talked about her daughter for a bit. All the while, I am upbeat, happy, smile on my face and engaging on a friend level; no R talk. She asks about the book I had been reading (DR) and asks if she can read it; I give her my copy and suggest she read the initial sections (intro, goal setting, communication, etc) and chapter 10 - healing from infidelity. She also asked about a book she saw at the house over the weekend (After the Affair) and I said that book was recommended to me by the MC when I called her on Friday to see if we could get an earlier appt. She asked if she could take that and read it and I agreed. She then said I just don't know how to deal with all the repressed hurt that I had caused the last few years and that was her biggest issue right now. I had recently finished reading Chapman's book on managing anger and told her about his technique to release long held, repressed anger (write it out, in detail, over a few hours/days) but since she was not a religious person, instead of a prayer and burning it, she could get it out on paper and either tear it up or give it to me - her choice. She really liked that idea and said she would try that. I then got on the phone with the MC and scheduled an appt for her the following week for IC. A bit more idle chatter about family news, some TV and then she needed to meet her D. I walked her out but kept my distance and just said I hope you have a better week, smile on my face, friendly. She asked for a hug and thanked me for allowing her to come over and being supportive. I waved bye and headed back into the house.
The rest of the week went by mostly uneventful, aside from 1 backslide on my part when I freaked out about the OM on Thursday and called her to "check up". Weakness on my part and a mistake, but she took it well and said she understood how I was feeling; I think the damage was minimal. I received a FedEx package on Sat for her and texted her that it was at the house and she called and asked me to open it. It was a letter from her former companies legal reps stating that they believed she was in violation of the confidentiality clause in her termination agreement and warned her to cease and desist any further discussions of her termination. She freaked out but I don't know any details so I just said "it's a warning, you need to respond that you are not in violation (she insists she is not) and move on. Business over, I wish her a good weekend and hang up.
Her D texts me on Sunday and asks if she can come by later with some Fathers Day things she has for me and I tell her when I'll be home. Evening rolls around and she texts me that she and mom are heading over now; that was unexpected. I figured they were in the same car and that's why W was coming over but they were not; separate cars. They come in, Mr. Happy and Upbeat is on patrol, and I hear all about the news in D's life (new job, dating news, etc). We have a really nice talk while the W sits and listens, engaging a few times to embelish D's stories. A nice visit. I ask W if she decided what she wanted to do with the legal warning and she isn't sure, asks my opinion and I give it. D breaks in and says she is gonna head out, is W ready too? W says no, I'm going to stay awhile so D leaves (obviously not expecting that response) and I walk her out to her car.
I come back in, we talk about the legal matter a bit and I ask how she is doing. She starts to get sad, weepy, and says she just feels bad. I ask ask her what specifically she feels bad about; about me, about us, about her job sitch, something else and she says she feels bad about her sitch. She tells me she is really happy for me that I am so much better, happier, but she feels bad about herself as a person, about her current sitch, about how she got here. I tell her that I can appreciate why she feels that way and that she's made some very bad decisions, but that she is not a bad person and she shakes her head. I remind her that she is still terrific (shakes her head), that she has family that loves her (looks away), that she is still a terrific employee and things will work out in time for her (shakes her head). I tell her that she has made some very hurtful decisions (A, OM, lies, probably PA), and she will have to live with them, but that she is still a good person and should remember that (shakes her head). She is clearly feeling very bad about herself but I stop the support talk and just close with "I hope the IC can help you". She asks for a hug again and leaves a bit later.
I do not communicate with her again until she calls me today to ask for advice in how to roll over her 401k funds. I give the options and my suggestion, ask what she has been up to and she says just applying for jobs and reading. I ask "reading what?" and she says DR, specifically chapter 10 (infidelity). I ask if she is prepared for the IC on Thursday and she says she is but she's nervous about it. I don't ask about what, just offer support and wish her a good session. All the while happy, upbeat, no worries. She hangs up and I'm feeling pretty good about where I am.
Aside from my slip on Thursday she has initiated all contact. She has reached out to me for emotional support, she asked for the books I had been reading, she asked to start doing IC with our MC, and she gave me a very nice card on Fathers Day that said she would always be grateful for the father I have been in D's life these last 8 years. That was the first nice thing she has said to or about me in 6 weeks. She even went out of her way to say she originally had a "funny" card but decided to get a serious card instead for me. I realize I still have a huge number of issues ahead but it seems like she's friendlier, less angry, and more interested in our M than she has been since the bomb (May 6). At this point I am not contacting her but if she calls I am friendly, supportive and compassionate. I will not initiate any R talk but will let her lead it if she wants. I also recognize that I might be better served by not being quite so supportive when she is feeling down on herself and plan to cut that back just a bit to let her fully experience her guilt and sorrow. I hate to see her suffering but she probably needs to do it for remorse and regret to fully set in.
She said she would call me tomorrow with some medical news updates and i don't expect to hear from her after that; time will tell. I'm trying to let things settle and give her space for a few weeks and let her lead the way for awhile. Having re-read DR again, and having gone over Bowtech's notes now ~20 times, I think I am on the right track. I was not a an emotionally supportive husband in the past couple years so I'm trying to be that as a friend. No R talk from me unless she brings it up and then I let her lead. No contact from me in the hope that she will start to miss what I offer her. I am GALing (Golf, guitar, trip plans this weekend), exercising like mad and eating well. I'm really struggling with getting enough sleep but it's getting better. I'm starting to detach and need to keep working on that; I'm still very doubtful about saving our M but I'm doing everything I can so I can walk away with a clean conscience. Lots of stuff, I know, but that;s where I am. If I am missing something I'd appreciate any/all comments.
Wife starts IC today and is friendly when she calls now. The wall seems to be a little lower, but it's still there. She initiated an email exchange yesterday during which I offered to be a shoulder she can lean on and she responded back that she was proud of all the improvements I had made in my life, and happy for me, and that she was now trying to do the same for herself. She said she was just trying to deal with her own pain, fears and issues right now and didn't want to keep hurting me with her issues (likely the A and the hurt she continues to cause me because she won't/can't talk to me about anything emotional). She closed by saying she is trying to get well again. I asked how what she said affects our R issues and she responded that she's just focused on her issues right now, and there may not be an "us" to talk about later, and that I need to make my own decisions and move on if I'm ready.
It was a good exchange, very friendly and factual, and I'm just doing the DB thing; discarding what I hear and keeping on with my GAL, 180's and detachment efforts. I'm hopeful that her IC will get her to a point where she is ready to talk again but I know that will likely be weeks. It's a long, hard journey - I hope I have the patience and strength to outlast her. I remain silent and only respond to her initiated contacts or essential business issues. I pray every day that this is working; it seems like it, in very small steps with many more miles to go.
