It doesn't mean you don't care about the outcome. Of course you care and you should care. It means don't interfere. It means step back and work on you. Also, it does not mean to do nothing financially. Obviously you take care of your finances. And if that means you have to talk about what to do with the house since neither of you can afford it, then that is a discussion you need to have.
You can't just sit back and let the house go into foreclosure. That directly affects your finances and credit and future. D or no D, you do have to watch out for yourself.
I would definitely talk to her about what she wants to do regarding the house. It doesn't mean your marriage is over. It just means that finances still have to be taken care of.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Song, I agree completely with Kevin! And, to contiue in what he was saying about "caring"......it is like the difference in being concern about something and worrying over it. Do you know what the difference is there? You can be concerned about a matter....which means that you "care" about it and what happens. However, if you are "worrying" over it, it means your are fretting, wringing your hands, going nuts trying to figure out what to do next....what will work that you haven't tried alread, etc. Do you know what that is a sign of? That means you don't have faith b/c when we trust God we will not worry and fret about what we could do, but instead we still care yet leave it in the hands of God to handle. We don't become some unfeeling creature just b/c we gave it to the power that could really solve the problem! That just shows that we finally got smart.
Yes, I am speaking about you completely stepping aside and not doing anything toward repairing the R, getting together with your wife, or making it a family day.....nothing. If she approaches you and makes that suggestion, then of course you can do it, b/c you will know God is at work and not you. Wouldn't you think that if suddently she came around to being nice and friendly and wanted to have dinner together some time? It would be a baby step and she would be the one to suggest it.......not you, and I bet you would be so happy b/c you would know she was not pressured at all by anything you did.
I don't think God is leading you, Song. In your conditiion, you are feeling what the flesh wants and you are in a hard place to feel the Spirit. I don't mean that in a harsh, mean way. I have been there so many times! Especially when I was working so hard in the Church and a real "go-getter". I was great at thinking up new things to do in the Church, but I did not know if it was God leading me or if it was just "Sandi's" idea. So, I had to learn to "remove" myself in order to test God and see if He was in the situation or if it was just what I wanted. If it was what He wanted, then He always found a way to let it be known and work everything together without my help. Same thing about your M. I don't believe for a minute that God is leading you to talk to your W about the Retroville classes. I think "you" want it so badly and see it as your last resort that you feel as if God is leading you. You want Him to lead you to do this! Maybe I should not say that b/c it may make you angry and think that I could not possibly know what God is or isn't leading you to do. Most of that is true, but mark it down to life's experiences, if nothing else. In spite of my one-time waywardness, I have had an exceptional raising in the Chruch. I've been in the Church work and dealing with Christian people all my life. I know that it is natural--what you feel. I give you credit for trying very, very hard to do what you think is the Christian way and trying to know what God wants you do to. But our old flesh or natural nature (whatever you want to call it) gets in our way so much of the time (thanks to Adam from who we inherited it from).
I do not believe you should confront her about moving back into the home. If God is working on her heart and on everything in the stitch, then do as the scripture says and "wait upon the Lord" and see what mighty things He will do. That is how God gets the glory and honor in these problems. How can He get the glory if we are the fixers? He can't--unless He is the fixer. So, remove yourself. That means to stop doing anything or saying anything to your W about the R. Don't use the kids or any other vessel as a means to reach her and impress her about the R. Leave it to God. I know you are scared, but that is why it calls for "faith".
Think of it this way. What was the hardest thing God ever did? Not that anything was too hard for God, but "if" it was......what would that have been? It was when He sent His only son to die for our sins. To take our place on that cross. That is where we deserved to be! So, how much faith did it take for you to become a Believer in Christ? The Bible doesn't say how much faith it takes to be saved, but God did make it so simple that a child old enough to believe in Christ can be saved. So that tells me we don't have to be college grads or do some type of hard work or whatever......if He made it possible and simple enough for a child to be saved. The Bible does say that if our faith was the size of a mustard seed, we could remove mountains. The word "mountains" is talking about "problems" in our lives. Have you ever seen a mustard seed? It is so tiny. That is all it takes to believe that your mountain can be removed. Sad that we Christians don't use more of the Faith, isn't it? The Bible does say that we can ask God to give us more faith. "Help my unbelief" is what one diciple prayed, and he was talking about needing more faith. Sure it is hard to trust, but if you trusted God to do the hardest and most important thing in your life (to save your soul) can't you trust Him to do the "lesser" things. I don't mean to say your M is lesser in value to you, but trying to make a point in how we can seem to trust Him for the biggest decision in life.....where to spend eternity, but we can't trust Him to take care of our earthly problems. I would think it would be a no-sweat problem for Him after He gave up His Son.........how about you?
So, my vote is to not approach her about moving back into the house or Retroville or anything other than finances (and of course whatever comes up about the kids). If you will leave her alone and completely.....totally.....100% back away and leave her alone......I believe that you will wave your white flag of surrender of "your" will to God, and say you are now placing your trust in Him. That is where your battle has lied all along. Giving over your will to Him. He's your Father, Song. Think of Him in that context.
I read your reasons that you could approach your W about moving back home, but again I plead with you to wait on the Lord God to do His work and you do nothing. It is not giving "up".....it is giving over to a much higher power. You were hoping that the Retroville would work wonders, but I'm here to tell you that God needs no Retroville (and that's not putting it down in any sense)but He just doesn't need it to make things happen. If you will do what we have said........and do it to the letter, I believe you will see something happen. Your wife knows how hard you've been against D and trying to fix this MR, so I don't know what her first reactions may be. Don't let fear get the best of you. Keep trusting God, no matter what. Besides, you have people here praying for you, right? You probably have some folks at your Church or class praying. How about it? Are you reading to turn the reigns over to the Almighty? BTW, you can still keep praying! We have already discussed that. Pray for God's Will to be done and you can't go wrong.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I agree totally with all the above, however, song, I know...KNOW..you still feel the need to do otherwise...or fix...as Sandi says.
After being punched long enough, you are going to go down to the mat in a sense. However, if you need a thought....
I asked my W to see a priest. HE asked her to do Retrouvaille. I gave her a brochure and an email of a woman who succeeded. It was all for nought....hence...I support the above posts.
If you need to backslide....and need to do this (and this is NOT what I would do)...you could order a brochure from Retrouvaille...put it in a blank card....tell her she is free to leave and that you will now move forward without her...but...that you are available to her yada yada. AFter that.....you can't call or pursue....and as Kevin and Sandi suggest, turn it over to G-d and just stop all this crap and start getting to work on yourself.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Thanks Sandi, Kevin and FIB for your continued support and thoughtful posts,
W & I talked yesterday... or more accurately stated, she talked and I did a lot of listening and validating. She said she was tired of being in Limbo and is ready to move on. "I understand that's how you feel". She said that the kids need closure and this isn't fair to them. "I understand that's how you feel, it's not fair". She said that she's turned a corner and she's just not interested in prolonging this any further. "I understand that's how you feel"
Then she said that she had met with an attorney, and would like for me to sit down with this attorney and see if we could work out some sort of collaborative arrangement. I kind of froze, and didn't say anything. She said that she hopes we can just come to an arrangement that works for both of us and we can walk away from this as friends. Again, I said nothing but continued listening. She said that the attorney would like to meet with me to discuss this, or she could send me a letter letting me know how this could work. I said nothing and continued to listen.
She then said "I know this is hard for you, aren't you going to say anything?"
That's where I guess I lost my DB cool. I said "I'm not interested in sitting down and discussing anything with your attorney. If you have an attorney, I guess I will need to get one also. You know I love you and always will, and I will always treat you cordially and with respect especially around the kids, but if we get divorced, we will not be friends. Friends don't do this to each other."
And then I got up and left. She had a look on her face that looked like a cross between "I can't believe you just said that" and "You are such an a$$hole".
So that's it. I blew it, I tried too hard to fix it, and she's been driven away.
That's where I guess I lost my DB cool. I said "I'm not interested in sitting down and discussing anything with your attorney. If you have an attorney, I guess I will need to get one also. You know I love you and always will, and I will always treat you cordially and with respect especially around the kids, but if we get divorced, we will not be friends. Friends don't do this to each other."
I don't think so AT ALL...I think that's actually pretty darn near perfect.
Me:40 W: 39 T: 17 years M: 15 years S-9 D-6 D final 11/10/2009
"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems."
I think you only blew her plans not any chances. Myself I would get my own L as you want someone on YOUR side when dealing with legal matters. Keep praying and working on yourself.
Me-44 WAW-42 (ILYBNILWY) S-16 S-14 M-10/17/1992 T23 Met OM 10/10/08; Bomb 12/27/08; Moved in with OM 01/27/09 Me stronger and happier everyday!
I agree with what ppenton said - find a L who will work for you and with whom you are comfortable. That will take some time so don't be afraid to shop around. If your employer has an Employee Assistance Program (EAP), they can give you recommendations. Friends who (regrettably) have gone through this in your area could also steer you in the right direction.
Again, time is your ally. Let W's L do all of the heavy lifting while the L you retain is there to review and provide feedback...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
So that's it. I blew it, I tried too hard to fix it, and she's been driven away.
It's in God's hands now.
I don't know what tone of voice you used when responding to what your W had to say. You said you lost your DB cool, so I wondered if you showed a lot of anger. I am sure you must feel a lot of different emotions right now. What I hope you will not feel is total defeat. That is how you sounded as you ended your post. Saying "it's in God's hands now" should not be like you have no other choice or that you are completely defeated so now He will have to take over. It's never too late for God. I only hope you will come to terms and find peace with Him. I get the feeling that is what you need to work on before you can deal with anything else with the right mental attitude. If you will completely trust Him, you will feel "peace".
I am NOT telling you that you don't need to protect your rights. I agree that you need to do what is necessary legally. However, D is not always the end! You "feel" like it is the end of your life at this moment, but does not have to be the end.
Please spend time in prayer, Bible reading (the book of Psalms), and quiet time with God......seeking peace with Him and the stitch. If you ask Him to help you, I do believe He will give you that peace and emotional stability that will carry you through this ordeal.
Talk to you later, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
That's where I guess I lost my DB cool. I said "I'm not interested in sitting down and discussing anything with your attorney. If you have an attorney, I guess I will need to get one also. You know I love you and always will, and I will always treat you cordially and with respect especially around the kids, but if we get divorced, we will not be friends. Friends don't do this to each other."
I'll leave the God-stuff to you and sandi and the other remarkable people of faith here, song; as you know, that's not My Way.
In terms of your last engagement with WAW -- as my Chicano friends would say, "Machin, carnal!" Excellent, bro!
That was solid, man. You laid it down clean. Here is what I will do; here is what I won't do; here is where I stand.
Don't despair, song (he said, having himself despaired). That's not blowing it, not by any stretch of the imagination.
Think about it strictly from a negotiating standpoint; there's plenty of room for negotiation (of all sorts of things, including the R) in what you said. For example, there's a long, long road between Stranger and Friend -- a lot of relationships in between there. Fishing buds, drinking buds, DB buds, co-parents, lovers, friends, friends with benefits....an infinity of inter-personal dynamics.
And what you said was, "I'm not closed off to engaging you as a person. I'm not denying your motherhood or your importance to our kids or your place in my life and my heart. What I'm telling you is that, whatever ELSE happens, it will be as much on MY terms as on YOURS."
And that's a good thing, methinks -- strong, solid, clear and unambiguous. It signals that you have a stake in things, too, now and after.
So buck up me bruvva! That seems like a success to me.
