Had long chat with W, I'm too tired to post all details but I asked her the straight question, "Are you in or are you out, cos right now I'm out". Well W wants in, she wants us in. So we talked long, long , long, not about IM man or what I know or what she wants to deny. we talked about where we are going wrong. Bottom line is we have become good parents but lost the "us" in the M . We are no longer H and W or passionate lovers we are just parents of D7.
Indirectly I also found out what W gets from OP outside the M
Originally Posted By: Kalni
I've told you before I think, she needs constant "validation" and ego stroking.
Spot on K this is what she is getting. W said she wants me to get back to wooing her or doing things that make her want to want me.This time shes actually given me some clues on how to go about it. She sited simple things like yesterday I made dinner even though we wern't really talking she really apprieciated it (without saying it at the time).
I told her that while I thought MC was I good idea, I thought if we communicated more as we were doing now then there would be no need for MC. she agreed.
I made a big speach on the need to rebuild trust, as we hadn't really done so from her first infidelity. We both agreed we are miles apart now and it would take time to get us on to the same page but we need to work on it.
Also we need to make some us time (without D7) to see if we can rekindle the passion, other stuff we talked about in this section are best saved for the SSM forum but we talked about the build up over the course of an evening without out always going for the kill. (which is always my problem).
So we in talking mode,(again) I hope we can move forward but there are still so many issues to resolve. It's so complicated.
Hey Lan, you make it sound like she is giving you another chance! What is she prepared to do for YOU? DO not make the same mistake i did Lan...do not let her off the hook easily. You tell her what YOU need and what YOU expect.
To be honest I had the feeling that I as about to embark on another 2 year cycle, so the cycle will need to be broken.
Lanzo, How will you break the cycle? What will you do to ensure that it doesn't become an unbalanced R where you're doing all the work trying to make her happy?
We're dealing with depressed, addictive personalities who will gladly let us do all the work, and blame us when they're still unhappy. I hope we'll get to see some effort on her part.
Good job on provoking an honest R talk, and for having the courage to tell her that you were ready to leave the M. I hope it's a catalyst for some healing and Piecing.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
There are no guarantees that I can break the cycle, indeed all I may be doing is putting off the inevitable to a later date, however what I have decided to do is to tackle things head on. So if I see something I don't like I will bring it out into the open, I won't ignore things and I won't bury my head in the sands, and I won't wait to see if things blow over as a passing fancy. If I see it I will deal with it.
On the other front I won't be doing things just to make W happy, what I hope we will do are things together to make the M improve and hopefully by doing this we will both be happy. I did tell W that I was done on several occasion this weekend but as she replied that she wasn't done then we have to talk.
All,
This weekend W and I have been talking in depth, we decided that just the two of us talking will be better than any MC. W has been more open than before but not quite an open book. At the heart of the problem is a loss of passion in the M and her loss of desire for me, also in her opinion there is my lack of tack or subtlety in me trying to get things going again. She says there is the tendency on my part to try to go for the kill, dive straight into her pants everytime, instead wooing her. So as Kalni has mentioned she panders to these guys to get the woo factor, they in turn massage her ego and make her feel good and the fantasy builds from there. Then poor old me is left in the real world paying the bills, looking after D7, feeling desperate and sorry for myself.
So we are talking more on this theme to see where we go from here. The only let down for me on this part was at bedtime I put my arm around W and her response was to say "how can you go from saying the M is over to wanting to hold me, the turn around is too quick". Well I said, we've been talking, we've watched TV together and you invited me massage your feet, so I hold you now as a natural progression as tomorrow you may decide you won't talk to me and I didn't want to miss the opportunity of physical contact.
Oh I have to add this bit, W has a little woman's problem at the moment which requires cream to stop her feminine itch, well last week W asked me if I would apply the cream down below which I duly did. So when we were talking last night I told her that she has kept the "goodies" hidden from me for a long while, and now when she does show them to me they are in a poorly stated, not fit for anything naughty. Well W cracked up laughing, so did I. But she did reply and say that she wanted me to see that she did have a problem and wasn't just holding out on me.
We talked about other things but I can't remember them all, but going back to wooing her, I said obviously you give OM's the chance to send rude emails or talk dirty, should't you be inviting me to do things along those lines if you are serious about us putting back some passion into them M. And so we talked on.
Talking seems to be good for my health, BP has dropped from a highly stressed 165/105 to a normal 135/75 doctors have given me the sound advice as to avoid stressful situations. Thank you doctor.
"I told her that while I thought MC was I good idea, I thought if we communicated more as we were doing now then there would be no need for MC. she agreed." Isn't the MC mainly for better (not necessarily more) communication? Sure you can handle this on your own? Maybe you go to IC thru' your work for help dealing with W and establishing those boundaries, etc.?
"So we are talking more on this theme to see where we go from here. The only let down for me on this part was at bedtime I put my arm around W and her response was to say "how can you go from saying the M is over to wanting to hold me, the turn around is too quick"." She may have a point here.
"She says there is the tendency on my part to try to go for the kill, dive straight into her pants everytime, instead wooing her." Point here too.
"So as Kalni has mentioned she panders to these guys to get the woo factor, they in turn massage her ego and make her feel good and the fantasy builds from there." Like John points out, what is she contributing to the R? Lan, I believe you are taking on too much. She needs to go to therapy to get a few things sorted out or else you will "cycle" for sure. Now is the time to get her to comply, while she wants 'in'.
Lan, I am not sure you can do it alone. I said MC is difficult but it's important when things keep repeating, they open your eyes and give you tools. You have been reading and learning all along but your wife's maturity over relationships is non existent. Her actions show that.
So, unless she figures out what she is looking for in flirting etc etc, what makes you think that the moment you will "take a break" she will not do it again? I think in her mind the boundaries are very vague because her needs are so demanding and I dont think NO one man could satisfy her. So, IMO, unless SHE figures it out, the "cycle" will keep repeating until you "break" or she feels she doesnt need you anymore.
I agree with fb2 about a couple of point she made, but I think she should have told you before going down that path again...
IC would be helpful for her. Maybe you should try and engage her in it, through MC (that's how my H went for a while, he was refusing to).
BP back to normal, good, a stroke wouldnt do good to anyone at this point and you probably wouldnt be able to type your news for us... K
IC would be helpful for her. Maybe you should try and engage her in it, through MC (that's how my H went for a while, he was refusing to).
I agree, maybe IC is a good idea, if she's willing to give it a try.
Think of it this way - one thing you have learned was that two people who are unhappy as individuals can not "MAKE" each other happy. Happiness starts with yourself, and then becomes something you share with the person you love. You've GAL'ed your butt off, and it's gotten you here. I think W needs to learn that same lesson. Encourage her to GAL herself - so she can be a happy, self-sufficient PARTNER in your relationship, rather than an unhappy woman who clings to your M because she can't figure out what else to do.
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
I don't underestimate the size of the task ahead, but I don't intend to try and fix everything on my own and I don't think I'll ever be able to fix W, she has to go figure and fix herself. I've done enough IC for me and I think I've got a good enough handle on me to cope, plus I have still got this site and all my friends who are an absolute god send.
W and I are talking and because of my more direct approach W is talking more openly without actually holding her hands up and saying I did it.
Last night W was telling me she has hundreds of things going around in her head at anyone time, her health, FIL health, work, family etc, it's all a struggle, plus she has nothing exciting going on in her life. I didn't pick up on the last bit until this morning, but when I did ,I told W she has to sit down and figure out what it is she wants to make her happy, and what excitement she want to put back into her life and the M. I told her that her happiness is down to her not me.
Also K, my health is more important than the M and D7 needs a healthy dad so if it came to it I'll be out of here before that stroke happens.
