WAW1 - Anticipation

[markhaving probs]

I had my first meeting with Relate today which is my first ever C session, it was basically an assessment of my physical and mental health.

I did not get any advice, guidance or support during the hour as all the C does is assess you to see whether further sessions are required. She told me at the end I was in definate need of C so I now have to wait for a set of counselling sessions to be made available.

It did help to a degree as it just gave me an opportunity to vent to someone who is completelely impartial. I came close to tears but didn't so I guess that is an improvement.

I pick my children up tonight for the weekend, so I am looking forward to that very much.

[markhaving probs]

I have just picked my children up from my wife. I wasn't sure how to act, but in this case I chose the 'indifferent' mood, I just hope this is the right one rather than the happy one. I gave the impression I wanted to leave as quickly as possible, my wife said "oh, have you noticed the bannisers have been put back up". "I know you can't be bothered anymore" etc, then she moaned about the fact I had not cut the carpet back when I layed the boxing for the pipes. She then said I needed to buy cards for my mum's birthday and she said "I don't see why I should bother". She then asked me about work, I said I was doing bits and pieces and had an interview for next week. She then went on to say "you never tell me anything".

I didn't rise to any of the baiting, I just shrugged my shoulders, picked the bags up and left. She then called me back and asked me to make sure I looked after my son swimming tomorrow.

All in all I showed indifference, she moaned and was miserable, I am concerned about her comments saying "I never tell her anything" as it sounds like more of the same. I don't know whether I should have acted upbeat, showed her I was interested in the house.

What does anyone make of her and the way I acted?

I would really appreciate some views?

[markhaving probs]

Any views please.

[GFI2]

Hi there Mark...

Hmmmmm....well...IMO...and this is a bit of a 2x4 as our state-side friends refer to it...

I think you're running up against the challenge many of us have here...figuring out the right level of response /reaction to different sorts of communications / questions from a WAW...the thing about the approach you're trying to adopt -and I don't doubt the effectiveness of it per se, is that for you its still a bit all or nothing - as PM said before...you could do with sprinkling a few herbs and flavourings in there to see how things "taste"...

You were offered an opportunity there to demonstrate change, confidence, determination, 180s, GALing, responsibility...moving "forward" -not necessarily moving "on" but getting on with life...

If that question was asked by a "friend" how would you have responded?

Maybe you could have offered a little more without compromising yourself? If she then took up the gauntlet you were expecting you could still have retreated without losing your position...on the other hand if, as you anticipated it was a baiting question, you could still have extricated yourself from it without losing your position; indeed - if that was your W's intention -it would be you saying "well why ask me that if you're just looking for an opening to have a pop? Look I've told you what I'm doing so that reaction is not necessary and in fact its un-called for and unkind...I'm being up-front and honest..." (subtext - "perhaps you might try it!)

As it is I think you put up a wall and headed off that discussion at the pass...all with best intentions of course! Which I do understand cos I've been in exactly the same shoes!

This could have been an invitation to shine...she reacted to your response by saying "you never tell me anything". Is this confirming "more of the same" in her mind? IMO anything you can do to buck that the better...that sets up a conflict in her mind...the more such conflict exists alongside the Gucci moving on approach the better...

Mark-this is all IMO...I too have experienced the self-same difficulty in judging my responses to my W...

Please only take this as an interpretation of one LBS... there are likely other ways of looking at it...

What I do feel confident in offering though on behalf of others is the view that you are starting to "get it" and I sincerely admire your determination and application!

To borrow Coach's words "you can handle this!"

Best-and KBO - GFI

[Not Much Left]

Mark
I have been on these boards off/ on for close to 2 yrs. I can tell you one thing after all the crap I have been through and I have read Gucci's advice.....just do what he says. I truly believe if I had turned the other way, been completely indifferent but polite and gave my STBXW nothing, and I mean nothing, which I am now, my outcome would have been different. Listen, I get the house thing, I helped out, tried to "be there" for her and the kids.....just remember, she is choosing this path and if she does not feel the sting of your absence, she just keeps doing what she is doing, why shouldnt she? It is very hard to do, to be there for your kids and do this. I am doing it now, and again I wish I would have done it a long time ago. The only responses I ever gotten were when I truly did a 180 and went almost completely dark. Seriously, I almost am begging you, do what you dont think you can do, she will never come your direction if you give her much of anything. Indifference is brutal to the other person, even if they dont show it. My W is STONE FACED around me, she may be the best DBer ever! But again, the only time I heard about or saw a reaction, is when (i) I went dark and she had no clue what I was doing (ii) I did not ask what she is doing (VERY IMPORTANT) and (iii) she thought / thinks I have someone else.

In any event, this is from someone who has read a lot on here, frankly, most people are just too damn scared of what might happen, me included, while doing this.....let me guess, you think if you go away and are not available you think it will be easier for her to just go where she is going, away from you? Really? Trust me, its just the opposite. In fact, like the guru's on this site ask everyone, is moving toward her at all working? It NEVER works. Its like magnets, you turn them one way and they attract, you are in the other mode, you are turning to her, even in the slightest way, and it is repelling. Turn it around bro.

Just one guy who has lived it and wishes I could have come to this much sooner.
Good luck.

[GFI2]

Mark -I agree with largely with CVA above- I wasn't proposing that you veer away from the Gucci approach, not at all...merely that you had an opportunity to demonstrate that you were moving forward...

Where I do differ though is on the show of "indifference" because at the moment that is simply confirming something your W already believes - by being indifferent which is the "message" you want to give, the message you're sending at the moment is not that...its still a needy, weak message...that you're incapable of change and not really doing much about your situation...Cognitive Dissonance in my book is king! Change your W's thinking about you through your actions - challenge her perceptions of you...build up the great things about you and fix the crappy things...but do all of this "under the radar" -all of it will be noticed! Especially if, as you do, you have kids...Mark -join the PTA, volunteer in school...all of that is there for you!!! On a plate...what's your skill? Computers? Gardening? Football? Art? Love of books? Read a story? Help with science...school would love to have more help I'm sure! Are there any clubs at school?Whatever - go get involved...

When you have established the fact that you are moving "forward" ...then I think you can start changing your game plan..."I am this", "now I'm that" - then "I'm going to be"...

To make headway, and to reap the rewards from the advice given above IMO, first and foremost you need to be "seen" and "capable" of moving forwards...that doesn't mean appeasement or clutching at invitations offered by your W to enter into another Rship/child discussion but it does mean that when the opportunity presents itself on a plate - ie one that you have not engineered in any way....you should take advantage of it...indifference doesn't mean blanking or stonewalling - it means not being bothered one way or the other...while at the same time maintaining your dignity and confidence...there's an important, subtle difference...and it takes balls and resolve to do it!

Its a tricky thing to pull off when you're so wrapped up in emotions but it can be done!

Best - GFI

[markhaving probs]

Hi GFI2,

This is so tough trying to "act" in the way to be effective, different, confident etc etc. I really want to be myself but I feel like I am going to a job interview.

Like you, I feel as though I did miss an opportunity here to shine, but I also do not think I backslid either. I just think I held my position but probably portrayed 'more of the same' which isn't going to get me anywhere.

I must take PM's advice and as you have said treat it like a mix and see what works. I must admit I have not seen any change in her at all but it is because I am impatient.

I know I should try and forget her, but she has gone to London for the weekend with a 'girlfriend' and it's killing me. I just cannot stop picturing scenarios, though as JCJ has said, alot of this is all in my head and I must stop punishing myself.

Thanks G for responding, I really appreciate it.

Mark

[markhaving probs]

As an update, during that situation yesterday my wife told me I needed to get two birthday cards for my mother, one from me and one from the children. She said "I don't see why I should get it". I validated her comment and said I would sort it out, but I was annoyed with myself as this was something I should have anticipated and therefore would have shown a good 180. It still shows control and the fact I think she still thinks she needs to treat me like another child. I am so angry with myself.

I really did miss a good opportunity yesterday, I just hope I did not make the situation worse. I think overall my W would have seen that whole situation yesterday as 'more of the same' from me I'm afraid.

[PositivelyMommy]

Mark,
stop kicking yourself. The more you kick yourself, the more people want to kick you. Do you remember movies about bullies and the people they pick on?

That is why everyone is asking you to 'man up', put more confidence forward. Because if you did that, she would sense that she can't get away with it anymore and would stop.

But if you give out the vibe that, yes, you are right in kicking me, she feels justified.

So stop it.

Now, that doesn't mean do the COMPLETE opposite and pick a fight with her, you did that remember and it didn't work.

What you CAN do is say, 'Don't worry, I've got it covered. You don't have to worry about me anymore.'

This way, she can LET GO. You show that you are confident and she doesn't need to keep thinking about how to put order in your life.

See the difference?

[PositivelyMommy]

So everytime you feel that she is trying to 'help' you organize your life, look her in the eyes and just say (kindly), 'Don't worry, W, I can do this. I've got it covered. We are doing just fine.'