Stress, WAW and life in general III

[AJM]

New thread for those following. Thanks MB for letting me know it was locked.

To update:
Yesterday was MC session. In it, we talked mostly about the sep and the agreement. We came to an agreement. I mentioned that although this isn't what I wanted, I recognize she does. I also recognize that since I don't have a choice, I'm going to go with it. Attack from another direction [1] The MC was planting seeds. It was important to W that she have me acknowledge that I am part of getting us here. She said this is not where she wanted to be either. (hmm....)

I mentioned that I want to take this opportunity to review some things bouncing around in my head that I may have some resentment about. Not resentment per se, but some regrets or things that I may have settled on that I really haven't been ok with at some level. W immediately asked what those were. I said I was still thinking through some things and did not want to discuss, but that I plan to figure out what is really in there.

In the parking lot, we talked for about 20 minutes more. Calm. Easy conversation. I told her one of the things very important to me is that in my future relationships that I have somebody I feel comfortable sharing my hopes, my dreams, my fears, my happiness with. I think that is a very important thing to me. I said I hope that relationship is with you, but that's something I really missed. I explained myself for my Dec Jan comments where I mentioned I liked the openness even though I hated the hatred and blech that spewed from her mouth. I ended the conversation telling her that I was planning to review these things, but that I don't think we should put very much energy into figuring out the past and instead put it into the future.

Last night after the kids went to bed, we talked for about 1.5 hours. We spoke of mostly anything that didn't have to do with her school. Or really that was focused on her. She's listening and learning. But I really do require more active listening. She has a long way to go. But I noticed.

Today she is trying to get the apt squared away. They decided to let her know that she needs 32k in the bank in her name to get an apt. She was pissed. The bank won't give her checks until she has an address, and she can't pay the apt to get the address until she has checks. I'm amused to some degree, but she hasn't wanted to ask for help. She finally got to a point with the bank where I asked if she wanted a workaround. She did so I did suggest a different workaround that she can handle. Sheesh. She's going to be a doctor and can't think outside the box.

Anyway, that's where we're at. She did bring up last night that she may have some regrets (insisted on not calling them that) about getting married young. MLC? Hmm.... I don't think so. She also mentioned that she doesn't really enjoy going out a lot but was going out with friends to draw strength from them. She said she enjoys staying at home seeing a movie or watching a hockey game. She also has been after me to talk about the family vacation in July and wants to make Monday family dinner nights steak night. Go figure. Lots of conflict.

Maybe she just needs to get away. Maybe she's nutz. Maybe, but I think some of it is that she wants to focus just on school and is coming up with reasons for leaving in the meantime. Sure feels that way as she comes up with various reasons for leaving that keeps changing.

I'll post more later. I'm looking forward to her moving out actually. Surprised to hear myself say that. I think I need the break. I'm not looking forward to the way the kids will react when we tell them we're reorganizing the family, but we are truly still working on the marriage. Might work out. One never knows. I went downtown to apply for my pistol purchase permits. I've put off my love of shooting because guns in the house bothered her. Since she is not there, I'm revisiting that decision and going to shoot competitively I think. Maybe get the kids into it.

Catch you guys later.

AJ

[song]

AJ,
No advice to offer, as you know I'm reeling from a bad week, but wanted you to know that I'm praying for you and your family. Thanks for your words of kindness and support in the alt.

[aliveandkicking]

Hey there. It sounds like you are handling it really well and were able to express yourself (which is so liberating)...

It does seem that her need to separate is so much more about her than about you.

I guess I just really relate. It is hard to have one's partner check out of the M for to fulfill their own needs, but here we are.

What struck me most about your post is that it sounds like you have managed to turn it around and really look at her and try to determine if she can meet your needs. I think us LBS end up feeling so sized up and tested, I feel like I'm under a frickin' microscope. But that is an illusion, right?

I'm very impressed and I hope you are doing as well as your post reflects.

[mindfull]

AJ - I'm sorry for you, but I'm glad you're finding some peace with the separation. I'll catch up tomorrow or Monday. Prom #2 is in full gear! Gotta be on high alert tonight...

[AJM]

Ah prom. Must have been fun.
Song, AK, MB, thanks for checking in.

Journal Update:
Brother in law is coming out to show his support. Bastard. Complicates things quite a bit, but there you have it.
W is scared. She was scared to tell the kids. Melted down a bit the day before. I've gone the other direction though and I am helping her to move out. I even offered to move the furniture or help pack. Instead, she's getting a mover and taking only a few things. She's scared. She should be.

She's not ready to give up on the marriage yet. That's interesting. She mentions that she sometimes has so much resentment well up inside her towards me. She also mentioned that she is still angry at God although she's working that out more and more I think. I think this is more because of two things: her inability to deal with anger (her mother wasn't much of a model for her) and her pursuit of her career. I don't think the marriage is over. But it certainly presents some major challenges.

Since telling her I needed somebody that could really listen that I could really share with and feel safe, she's made some changes and been a better listener. I think may be out of fear, but I may just not trust her yet. I suspect when she starts back to school on Monday, that she'll revert. We'll see.

Some neighbors are separating this weekend. Over money (control). It is interesting how W is saying that she just can't believe that. It's horrible. Same for another friend of hers who is divorced and is darn happy about it (best thing she did). While others that we know are miserable because of it. She's pulling away from more of the dysfunctional running buddies and heading for different friends. She's spending a lot of time with the kids. Quality time. The sep agreement has her spending lots of quality time with them. I'm happy about that part.

I think she's confused as to why I haven't given up. She keeps saying that she thinks that the MC is important and has helped her a lot.

The kids took the news surprisingly well. I was a bit pensive afterwards (after comforting daughter and wife - trying to be her friend and trusted go-to guy vs. just her lover.) She came over and gave me a kiss and asked if I was alright. Told her I would be fine in a few minutes.

We went for a walk as a family. We then went strawberry picking and came home for dinner and watching the hockey game. W wanted to talk a bit after that and then she went off to bed.

That's about it for now.

AJ

[mindfull]

AJ - Glad the kids took it ok. I have something I hope won't be too long to post here...

Have you ever been to a winery?

Can you imagine what it would be like to be one
of those grapes? Really...play along with me here
for a moment.

Can you imagine what it would be like to be
plucked, pushed, crushed, pressed, skinned, and
fermented? OUCH! The pain! What's the point of it
all?

A lot of people feel that way about the pain they
experience in their marriage. "Why am I doing
this? Where is this relationship going?"

But just as a grape goes through a difficult
process before it becomes a fine wine, sometimes
our marriage has to go through a painful process
before it matures.

The people who have the best marriages are NOT
people who grew up well-adjusted, have healthy
adult lives, and normal parents. People like that
usually have OKAY marriages.

The BEST marriages are with couples who were
crushed, who went through a painful process, and
who built their relationship from the ruins of
broken hearts.

There's an ancient song by King David, "Those who
sow in tears will reap harvest in glad song."

And so it is that pain is often the preview to
pleasure. Any woman who has experienced child
birth can testify to this truth.

As I interact with more and more people in the
Marriage Fitness Tele-Boot Camp, I notice that
very often the turning point in a marriage is
when a couple hits rock bottom. It's not until
they've been through the worst that things start
to get better.

But the turnaround in a marriage is NOT
automatic. Just because you hit bottom, does NOT
mean you'll bounce back. If you don't make it
happen, you'll just crash. In order to turn your
marriage around, you have to take RESPONSIBILITY.

What does it REALLY mean to be responsible? A
person who is responsible has the ABILITY to
RESPOND. In other words, if you take
response-ability for your marriage, then your
marriage is not determined solely by what
happens; it's also determined by how you RESPOND
to what happens.

A responsible person is not a victim to their
circumstances. They are the master of their fate.
How you respond to your marital circumstances
today WILL determine your marital circumstances
tomorrow. YOUR actions create your marriage. You
can turn sour grapes into a fine wine.

[AJM]

I've seen that. I agree, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger (semper fi).

I think as I read across all of these marriage fixing programs that the common thread is to work on oneself. Seems good advice. It also seems reasonable that while those that forget history are doomed to repeat it; those that can't let go of history are also doomed to repeat it.

Thanks MB!

AJ

[Kalni]

Funny, I was reading your latest and you posted to me... Well,you got there, told the kids, she is moving out... I love your attitude about the marriage not been over. What's you guys are doing sounds like a controlled separation. It is I guess much esier to deal with, than a sudden, full of anger separation with "THE END" being repeated over and over again thru it.

You sound good and I am glad you are in such control. I cant help thinking how I felt AFTER I calmed down, (it was The Secret actually that got me back on track, funny how a simple idea of "controlling" what happens to you thru faith and strong desire can really be so helpful, it was to me at least). I remember my fear was that once H was out, he would get too complacent and would never want to come back because he "would get used to it". That fear ruined many of my nights. When I finally let that feeling go, I felt so much stronger.

I do, still believe, and call me naive if you wish, that things will always turn out as they are supposed to and in your case, I still believe you need to be strong, confident and her friend. Nothing else, the rest will follow.

As Andrew Marshall says, or someone I read-too many to keep track- "Couples appreciate Love more after getting to the point of feeling all is lost for ever".
xxx
K

[AJM]

K, thank you SO much for that. It's inspiring.

I think on my end, it is a controlled separation. That's my W though - control, control, control.

I'm going the other direction I guess. I think she's worth keeping and so I'm going with it. Adapt. Overcome. Adapt. Rinse. Repeat.

UPDATE:
W wanted to talk again tonight. She called me during the day asking about some computer stuff. I do that for a living, so I'm happy to help, but she didn't want to take the help "too" much. I gave some ideas and offered to help if she wanted me to. She didn't - wants to be independent. <shrug> Ok.

During tonight's conversation she wanted to cover some past things. I told her I won't spend too much energy to confront the past. There will be things I won't know. I told her I want to put my efforts into the future. She told me that she wants to be "that couple" that is so in love they hold hands all over the place, kiss in public and do those lovey dovey things. For her, it's all or nothing. I agreed. It's all or nothing for me as well. I realize we used to have that for about 16 years. I told her I realize now that we had some intimacy issues. I didn't feel I could tell her anything. I had to guard my conversation because she would try to fix it, or would react in a negative way. I told her I needed that kind of openness in a relationship. I missed it. She told me I smothered her. That she felt I should have other friends. I told her that I reacted incorrectly to her pulling away.
Water under the bridge. Going forward is what counts now. She said she wants me to get to know the woman she is becomming. Hmm... MLC? She said she wants to look in the mirror and like the person she has become. I agreed and said that until she can like the person she has become, I really can't either. So separating will hopefully give her time to work on that. Figure it out. I told her the hardest part is that there are no time limits but that we both have to work on it to regain that level of love. She agreed that it would take that. Hmm...

She's changing, but still moving out. I think she is worried she'll be so overwhelmed by school that she won't be able to put the time into "us" if she's coming home all the time.

I have to look at my goals for a second. My goals were to get her to heal, to spend more quality time with the kids and to reconnect with me.

She's working on healing. Making pretty good progress. She's spending more quality time with the kids and plans to do that more as time goes on. She's fishing for what will make us work. Putting a lot of time into that. That's positive because to me it means she wants to know what would make "us" work even if she's not willing to do it, at least she knows what it would take.

Time. Patience. Perhaps a visit to the dead beaver club? (that was a joke).

AJ

[aliveandkicking]

I would be very comforted by her wanting "that couple" and it sure sounds like she would like it to be with you.

Who the heck knows why she's still moving? I think pure stubbornness can cause people to follow through regardless of feelings. Ego, fear...doesn't matter. If she wants to work on herself great. And, she cares what you think of her. And, I LOVE that you have turned it around (or perhaps it has always been your take) that you are looking for changes in her not just the other way around.

Good stuff. I think your confidence will be very enticing, especially to a woman who is feeling so insecure. I like that you can be so honest without fear that it will push her away. Seems like you've got a very healthy perspective. I'm a tad envious...but at least I've got you counseling me on my sitch.