The last 4 months have been terrible, but I'm starting to get myself back in order. I'm begging for some much needed advice and comments - this is going to take time... and I know I've come to the right place. My M is one thing, but I must confess I am more concerned about me and how I react/navigate the waters ahead of me. Here is another sitch for those that have heard it all.
During the last few months of 2008 my marriage began to show signs of tangibly serious problems. Luckily I found this site and immediately added DR to my prescription dosage of required reading (Thanks Michele). It has been so helpful to find this place and read through the experiences of others. I've found so much in common, and now I feel compelled to share my story and I welcome all feedback. I'm really, really struggling to understand this in addition to applying DB and making the necessary changes. After reading the perspectives of the WAW on this site, I know she is struggling as well.
I know this is long as it's a tough sitch, but I believe sharing all of it may provide a better picture for anyone who can provide insight. I plan on posting more current info as we go forward.
Background on us(1 of 9)
We've been married for almost 4 years, together 7. Neither of us had been married before. I felt she was the one the day I met her in 2002. I knew I wanted to marry her no less than a month later while on a family vacation without her - from which I left early to come back and visit. We are both very career oriented, successful professionals - and, we clicked immediately. At the time, we seemed to compliment each other in a fantastic way and I think we both knew where this would lead. Some time later and WAY out of character for me, she suggested we move in together. I agreed, we loved it, and we were ultimately married 3 yrs later.
The adjustments(2 of 9)
Fast forward to 2007... that's when life began to hit us like a tsunami - wave after wave. Despite our career oriented lives we knew we would like to have a child (perhaps more) and so we did. My wife delivered a beautiful baby boy and as we were adjusting to the new addition, we both settled on the idea that one was enough.
Oh, and just to make things interesting, we both made major career changes (with the same companies, though) and went through a formal relocation just 3mo. prior to the birth.
Fortunately W is a tough cookie... ex-dancer, gymnast, etc. But she's also been through more surgeries at her age than most including major back surgery. To give you an example of how tough, after he back surgery the doctors told her she would be nearly bed-ridden for at least a 6wks. and her formal recovery would be about 3-6mo. She was walking around (back brace and all) within a week!
Even with that, she had a tough pregnancy with our 1st and I think her body had had enough. Couple that with a move away from friends/family to an area with which we were unfamiliar and the career changes (she started telecommuting, which I had done my entire career, and I started going into an office but traveling a bit less), it was a lot to take in. Neither of us really liked the career changes, but we did start seeing more of each other which was great.
I think the clincher came 6 months after giving birth to our 1st. We were shocked to find out that she was 3 months pregnant again! I can only imagine how much that affected her...her body having to go through another pregnancy right away...physical and emotional exhaustion...trying to attend to a newborn...me on the road more than most husbands...and her alone in an unfamiliar place. It affected me as well. Despite another gift from God we knew this next 6mo. would be a major challenge.
More waves(3 of 9)
The next set came when my wife's company (of 9 yrs) gave her an ultimatum just days before going on her 2nd maternity leave in less than a year. "When you return from leave, either stop telecommuting and come to the office everyday or you don't have a job." This wasn't a performance issue... just the result of a spin-off and new management. The deal killer was that the office is 120 miles from where we now live. Could anyone realistically expect someone to do that??? ... especially a devoted mom who would soon have two young infants?
Soon after, we found out that she had serious complications with the pregnancy of our 2nd. The news that this pregnancy would be much worse than the first wasn't any help. She ended up in the hospital on and off for several weeks and then ultimately went on bed rest for the duration of the term. It was very tough on her. It was tough on me, but she told me it wasn't a big deal, but it was potentially life threatening. I tried to ease the burden by cutting trips, being there as much as I humanly could, taking care of our first-born, getting both sides of the family involved to come and help out as much as possible, etc.
Meanwhile, my new career path began to take a nose-dive and I was distracted on all fronts. "When I was there, I wasn't really there" - both personally and professionally if you know what I mean.
After some very stressful nights for all of us, D-day for our second arrives. Finally, another surprisingly healthy baby boy - and W is ok, too! It was a tough recovery for her after being in 'pregnant' mode for 20 months, the complications, etc. But like the resilient, determined little creature she's always been, she will have been back pursuing her career goals inside of 3-4 months. She works hard and always has.
The decline (4 of 9)
Dealing with all of these changes, adjustments, and increasing stress where tough enough on both of us. I tried desperately to make our young family the priority in my life, but it was taking a toll on my career. We have both always made great money, but her income had leveled out over the years, in part due to her maternity leaves, and hospitalizations. By the time our 2nd was born, my income had nearly doubled and we'd become dependant upon it. The problem was that I wasn't justifying that at the office in part due to my priorities at home. But somehow W didn't seem to think I was ever there.
The day before the election in November, I was escorted out of the office - pink slip in hand after nearly a decade with the same group. My only thought was her. I drove immediately to her and shared the news. "We'll be fine, I told her - trust me." I had a decent severance package that would take me through the end of the year. In addition, I had investments and other avenues of getting by until the next career opportunity came about - if we stuck it out together, we could have made it seven or eight months easy.
At first, the time off actually worked out. I had much more time to be with the family, support W as she completed a lengthy training program for her new job (8 weeks of long days and a long commute), take the home pressures off her, and just enjoy being a stay at home dad. I shuttled the boys to their doctor's appointments, day care, cooked, cleaned, and caught up on my lengthy to do list at home (I did most of this already anyway, but now I had the opportunity to take the burden completely off W). Obviously the job search began as well.
We also opened our home to a 14yr. old who was struggling in school and whose parents/family began having some serious problems (very complex family structure if you get my drift). We knew the couple well as the wife had previously provided in home childcare for our boys. My wife had developed a close relationship with their daughter.
With their permission and in an attempt to help their daughter get back on track and provide a safe place to live - she began living with us in a spare bedroom. My wife wanted to help and I suggested she simply move in as to help offset any problems taking her back and forth between homes might generate. She offered to help her study, provide the boundaries she needed, and transport her to school, etc. Ultimately, it was I that ended up fulfilling much of this commitment and I invested a significant amount of time with her schoolwork (she was failing nearly everything and a full month behind in homework). I began to resent my wife for the fact that she didn't fulfill her commitment. I was doing it all, in addition to taking care of our family and I didn't feel appreciated - much as though I did when I was working and a consistent theme from my perspective.
Meanwhile, the economy began to progressively get worse and worse. The job search was not going well as companies began to 'shrink' and 'control headcount' through the end of '08
Our communication problem (5 of 9)
I'm still trying to understand how and why we communicate so poorly with each other. We are both professionals who have had a lot of responsibilities that require excellent communication skills. Over the years, we've managed people, managed processes, managed facilities, designed things, and even sold - always customer centric. With each other, however, we've lost something along the way (most likely me more than she).
I should say that for the entirety of our relationship, we have always had unusual schedules and our time together has been reduced. She would have to work some nights and weekends, I would travel about 40-50% of the time, mostly days during the week, and then on occasion would do some freelancing that required me to be out 8-10 weekends in the fall. But it never seemed to slow us down or be a problem.
We don't have what I would call a flamboyant history of major arguments, but we aren't saints either. Before we were married, our communication challenges (focused towards one central issue associated with me) split us up for a very short while, but it was resolved. She drew the line, I accepted and respected her position and made the change (this was issue oriented, not communication oriented). We moved forward.
When we do, argue, however, we are both classic "understand me" arguers...to a point. But I should admittedly add that she is a much better communicator than I. Once the attempt to have the other 'understand' fails or the other doesn't listen... we fall into a classic, repetitive routine. We both stonewall, she probably more than me. When she stonewalls, I keep hammering away my point... she stonewalls more... I get upset that she isn't listening... she stonewalls more... then ultimately I bring up irrelevant, resentful stuff designed to get some kind of response... she ultimately gets hurt and the situation is useless... and I'm still upset that my point isn't coming across. This works in reverse for us too, but I'm the one typically playing the upset, resentful, role to get a response from what I perceive is a rigid closed-minded opponent. We also fall into the group who goes through the wife 'nagging'... husband gets defensive... wife gets upset... husband withdraws routine.
I don't believe either of us really listens to each other. To compound the problem, I have experienced many cases where my opinion/point/perspective which is clearly communicated goes through a set of incredible filters in W's mind and are spit out as something entirely twisted. To add to all of this, I do tend to yell and raise my voice - or at least 'debate with passion' about an issue - especially when these filters get applied. W indicated that she began to walk on eggshells around me. This is one of the things that I am working on as I look closer and closer into the mirror.
Now without getting into tons of details, I should add that despite my traveling, I have always worked hard at home. I even went to the length of eliminating overnights to close cities in my territories and getting back home in time to do dinner, bath, and bedtime with our boys. I have always given W a break when she needed one with the kids, and she has always done that for me.
I do a very large portion of the chores around the house and always have. We do differ on how we prioritize chores, etc. vs. kids though. I contend that it all has to get done, so why not work on all of it one bit at a time? It takes time, yes, even after long days and after putting the boys down for bed. W contends that kids and family time come first - including personal time to rest. Her perspective leads to things backing up and I get resentful that I have to pick up the slack. This ultimately furthers resentment and any feelings that I am not or was never appreciated.
The "darker" sides to each of us (6 of 9)
While pregnant with our second, my wife and I went through one of these classic repetitive arguments, but she wasn't stonewalling - she was fighting fiercely for her position. I was fighting just as fiercely for mine and I resorted to a resentful, unrelated comment. The issue is long forgotten, but the result of what I witnessed was nothing short of frightening.
In a rage I have seen two or three times, she called upon the vast reserves of prescription meds she has accumulated from her surgeries. She grabbed a handful of whatever she could get her hands on first. As she began to toss the entire handful into her mouth, I slapped her hand away and simply lost it. I couldn't believe she was considering taking her life or, at worse, doing harm to the baby. It was the most insane thing I'd ever seen, and I let her know it. That didn't help things, but I began to suspect that some deeper issues are under the surface.
I wish I could handle that entire situation differently. Instead of taking a more compassionate role and listening (really listening to her), I chose to point out the flaw in her decision making... belittle her... call her crazy... confirm to her that I wouldn't really be there for her on the darkest of days... enforce that this really was the answer to whatever problem she was dealing with. All the while she was dying inside and I didn't see it.
W has also shared with me two very serious happenings in her life. While in college and years before we met, a roommate of hers committed suicide. They were good friends, and W was the one who found her. I don't know much about the situation, but I do know that it affected her deeply - but she doesn't talk about it much. I found one of her old college day planners in the basement and it confirms that she seriously missed her friend and the scenario was on her mind quite often - well after it occurred.
The other significant happening has to do with sexual abuse while she was young. Again, I don't have a lot of details. She has shared some of that information on occasion, but I have never tried to pry. She has, however, indicated that she's never dealt with it, realizes it is an issue, and wants help. In MC, I encouraged her to do that, the MC agreed and she seemed to want to get into individual treatment - but it never materialized.
And finally, if the above isn't enough, W has dealt with eating disorders (she playfully calls it by its full medical terminology - 'anorexia nervosa'). Her driver's license lists her as 5'4" 120 lbs. Today, and after losing 40 lbs of weight gained during her pregnancy, she is closer to 100 lbs. She doesn't, and never has had a great self image - which has always been baffling to me because she is beautiful (outright gorgeous in my opinion), funny, and always the center of attention. I have always told her how much I love her, how great she looks, and generally try to be sensitive to this as I know how powerful these kinds of things can be. I know how hard it was for her gaining the weight with the boys, but if you look at her now you would never have guessed she's been through what she has been.
The darker side of me is that I do get very aggressive when our arguments escalate into this repetitive routine. It's classic. I yell and get frustrated trying to get my point across. I will say that my arguments are usually grounded in logic and reason, but when it doesn't seem to be appreciated or even considered I get upset. This includes how I have repeatedly tried to raise red flags and have serious discussions with my wife about mey topics, like finances, with little interest. I have never been physical with W, but I have called her a nasty name on two occasions - episodes for which I am deeply apologetic. This behavior coupled with our communication problem, my wife's disdain for confrontation, her negative self image and the above personal issues have been a disastrous combination.
The bomb (7 of 9)
We both knew we had a communication problem and began MC. This was actually nice as we were able to spend some time together without our boys thinking only about us. We began to lay out what was wrong, what we needed to do. We needed to actually discuss issues, spend more time together (just us), and I needed to work on how I interacted with my W (not yell, belittle, listen, etc). We had a good plan that we both knew would begin to solve the problem, unfortunately MC seemed to last only a few sessions and neither of us seemed to truly partner on implementing the changes.
Just prior to the last weekend in Dec 08, we had a pretty big argument. W said she was no longer living like this, wanted a D, and I'm confident she almost immediately contacted an attorney. Things seemed to settle down for a few weeks - but communication issues didn't improve, she began sleeping in another room, and we stopped going to MC. In retrospect, I think she felt that MC would be an immediate fix and of course it wasn't. I had gone into it thinking it would be a long term process - especially if permanent changes were to be made and given the extent of the problems involved.
The separation (8 of 9)
On 2/3/09, I was recovering from a bout with the flu. I was bedridden and miserable for a week before we decided to go to the doctor (suspecting flu there isn't much you can do, but I at least got some pain meds to make it a bit more comfortable. After the appointment, W went to the pharmacy to pick up the prescription and her debit card was declined - all of the money had dried up and our account was at $0. I still hadn't cashed in any investments or implemented the remainder of my plan to get us by, but this was a reflection that without my income our expenses were obviously draining our accounts. Fairly obvious to me, but my wife snapped. She returned crazed and told me of the situation. My response was "what do you expect?" Previous attempts to discuss our financial situation and plan were met with no interest - "Can we do this another time?" "This isn't important right now." A theme that has recurred any time I try to talk about reality or any other situation with her. In my experience, she puts her head in the sand anytime 'reality' comes knocking. I've repeatedly tried blowing the whistle and raising the red flags regarding various key issues, with little success gaining her interest. This has upset me many times in the past and it fuels my anger regarding her responses to various situations. In this case, she could have easily discussed my plan with me, looked at the finances. She knew without my income this was just a matter of time. In retrospect, she doesn't seem to care and had already begun planning her escape.
She indicated that she was finally done and the next day got her own apartment and began the process of moving out. By this time I had been well versed in DB techniques and was trying to apply them as best I could, the LRT seemed to fit my sitch. I helped her move - one of the toughest things I have ever done. I even rented the truck. She indicated that she wanted the boys to be with her as well. I didn't necessarily agree, but with my own situation in dire straights I was trying to be as supportive as possible. I knew here moving out was to let me know she means business, but also recognized that it would give us some time to work things out individually. Fortunately, her place is only a mile away from the house.
A week or two later she came for the remainder of her stuff, including the furniture in our nursery for our boys. I was still trying to be as supportive as possible until she made the rather weird comment "Sweet!" as we were carrying out one of the cribs. To me, this indicates a host of things that don't give you that fuzzy feeling. After continuing to help her load her stuff, she flipped out, called names, and asked me to just "F'n LEAVE!" She questioned why I was helping her and insinuated that I was doing this just to make myself look good. I was genuinely interested in helping and was very much inspired by DB stories, but in retrospect I think she didn't want me in the house when started 'deciding' what stuff she wanted to take. She didn't go crazy, but she did take many of the necessities as I realized were missing over the next several days.
We have since begun to separate finances as best we can, but she has walked on the mortgage and all of our major debts (she can't afford the joint commitments we made from a financial perspective). Everything we have/had was joint, except for one of her student loans. I am paying for all of our major joint debts except her car payment (and as I've already mentioned am still unemployed). I'm burning through my rainy day funds faster than I ever expected, but putting the major expense (house) on the market in the midst of this housing crisis almost not an option unless it is part of a relocation.
She is just barely making it at this point, and I still pay for half of the boys' considerable childcare expenses. To boot, I am now the built-in baby sitter when she works nights and weekends (usually 2-3 days a week and every other weekend they are with me) sometimes more as her schedule requires. Don't get me wrong, I love being with my boys. They are my life, but its difficult being forced into be a 'single' parent to two toddlers.
Bringing us to where we are today (9 of 9)
Since then, DB has helped greatly. I've tried 180's with positive success, always try to be upbeat, look good, be her friend, GAL, and I have gone dark as much as I can. This isn't easy as we see each other regularly and talk nearly ever day especially in regard to the boys. But the big picture as it is, to me, sometime seems too complex and deal with. I have backslid several times particularly trying to discuss the future of "us" and our finances as job opportunities seem limited (especially in the local area for my kind of work). I know this is against all DB'ing but naturally I miss my wife terribly - she is my best friend and always will be.
More importantly, I have to take care of myself in order to take care of our boys - and I don't want to be a part-time dad located in another state. Unfortunately, the only opportunities seem to be elsewhere which requires some serious decision making on both my W's and my part in regard to our family and future. Despite the above, I would very much like to restart our lives somewhere new, together. I know that's probably a long shot or maybe just wishful thinking.
Things are a bit day to day and there has been some improvement on occasion, but when these backslides occur, W almost immediately brings up D and it feels like we are right back to square one. I don't want a D, I love my wife and the family we have. But I have to say, that she seems to want out. There hasn't been a filing, yet, but I do know from going back over some cell records that she is checking in with a local attorney at least once every two weeks or so since Dec - and definitely after every discussion that seemingly taken us backwards. I felt absolutely rock-bottom going through cell phone records by the way - I felt disgusting, I was shaking, but it was eating me up. Was there OM? Was there an EA? We've since split the cell phones, so I won't be able to know what's what going forward - which is actually fine with me.
So, any advice? Is this sitch just the product of an extremely stressful time in our lives with the relocation, back-to-back pregnancies, and career changes? Perhaps all of that simply accelerated the ultimate outcome of our communication problems? As far as W's personal issues, I know it sounds bad, but she is an amazing woman that has been through a great deal. I don't even know if these things affect our relationship, but I'm trying to fully understand all issues going forward. And I'm not a perfect human being either, but I am trying to realize permanent and lasting change. Regardless of how complex our issues are, I don't want to repeat my mistakes, dont't want to continue to create an environment where she feels belittled/unsafe, or to continue to push her any farther away than I already have.
Me: 34 WAW: 33 M: 4 T: 7 K: B2, B1 Bomb 12/08, sep in same house W moved out 2/09 w/K
Giving her time and space is the BEST thing you can do for your troubled marriage right now. Be supportive of her, IF she asks for it...and validate her feelings. Honor her, cherish her, and respect her by giving her the time and space that she needs. It's the hardest thing to do...but you HAVE TO DO IT. I'm sorry for the troubles that you are experiencing.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
I appreciate the reply and immediately started reading your sitch. I see many similarities with the two of ours - especially the difficulties in trying to respect her space, re-engineer every part of our communication skill-set, and letting go for her sake.
W and I haven't talked for a couple of days after I directly asked about the possibility of OM - she was incredibly insulted, I formally apologized and then shut up about it - but we haven't talked for a while. Don't repeat that mistake - I was simply consumed by my own insecurities and have been completely overwhelmed with what lies before me. For W and I that's about the longest it's been since we haven't actually communicated so I know where you are coming from. It's really hard sometimes... catching myself in the midst of a backslide is probably the worst feeling on earth - repeating the old habits over and over with the same results... it's a cliche I know, but I must be insane.
You seem to be doing great things in your own life for which you have my respect. Keep it up. Don't lose sight of you and working on you for the sake of you - not for anything else. I know this is hard - I can relate to every emotion you express in your posts. I don't have this figured out completely, but one thing that has helped me is the following realization:
Imagine the image of God giving free will to man and woman knowing that the majority of them would choose to defy, curse, ignore or even separate from Him. All he wants is a relationship with them and ultimately their souls - but he's given them the choice not to share that desire. Even when he first knew of their individual names, he'd already 'let go of the rope' because he unconditionally loves them and will always be there when and if they choose to return. There is no pressure, there is no pushing away, there is no inexplicable 'human response' that only results in more hurt, guilt, etc. Now imagine if you can only endeavor to try hard and put aside your natural human responses and learn to exhibit his example. If you can, attempt to put yourself in his shoes when you look at your wife. Not an easy task, but its worthwhile. In my case, this has begun to shed some light on just what this will take to overcome, but it has also been very healthy for me too.
Now, as a very human being, I am not even near this kind of perfection - but I'm determined to get as close as I possibly can. And this image serves as an analogy that has helped me face the difficulties before me. Because what I know now is that any interaction with my wife is precious and I must make every one of them count - even if it seemingly runs counter to nearly everything I have been raised to believe. Try to put your own feelings aside and make this completely about her. Use God's example to guide you. As you know this is actually the fight we have before us, and it isn't WITH W - its FOR both of US and each of our respective W's as it relates to the M.
Me: 34 WAW: 33 M: 4 T: 7 K: B2, B1 Bomb 12/08, sep in same house W moved out 2/09 w/K
So today is turning out to be a reasonably good day, but tonight who knows. W and I still haven't talked for a couple days, but that's OK. I'm learning to put aside my concerns, selfishness, and insecurities and focus on being genuinely comfortable with the space she needs.
But the boys will be with W tonight and tomorrow. Sometimes its particularly hard because my firstborn and I (who will turn 2 in a week) are like peas and carrots - he's totally a Daddy's boy. He likes to play with Daddy's lawnmower and tries to move the snowblower around in the garage. This is cute because its so much bigger than he is. He helps me with chores outside, always goes grocery shopping with me, goes with me to run errands, wash the car, etc. Now I'm having a really tough time because I am not there for dinner time (when they are with W), or for bath-time or bed-time. I know its hard on my W when they are with me, but these are the boundaries she seems to want to establish. I plan on respecting them.
For a while, she didn't seem to have aproblem with me being over at her place for these routines, especially when she first moved in to her place. I would even watch the boys there for her on certain evenings and leave when she would return from work about 11-12pm. But within the last week she has said that she feels like she's being judged when I am there. Now I haven't criticized her apartment, cleanliness, skills as a mother or anything - just tried to be supportive and help out. She's a great mom I should add.
But it's like I'm battling ghosts sometimes. On one occasion before she moved out, she said that she felt intimidated by how much I did around the house, contributed, spent time with the boys, etc. Is this where she's gets the feeling like she's being judged? Later after moving out she broke down one evening as we talked and began saying she felt like a huge failure and that every decision she has ever made had been wrong. I've repeatedly validated her decision to move out and I've told her that I respect what she has done. I don't agree with it, but thats out of my hands.
This waffling/confusion, etc has since resulted in this request for time and space - but I feel helpless as it relates to my needs/desires to be with and help out with the boys. I know she doesn't know what she is doing. I just hope I can get through the next couple of days without any backslides.
On another note, I found Sandi's list in another post. I'm great at about 60% of the list, but continue to fail with the remainder. I am posting it here to remind me and all who read just how wise and necessary this information is to our respective situations.
Sandi's List
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say - get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don't act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren't speaking, but don't be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
Me: 34 WAW: 33 M: 4 T: 7 K: B2, B1 Bomb 12/08, sep in same house W moved out 2/09 w/K
As a side note and special request... I have the utmost respect for the insights of Bridge and Sandi - after being an avid reader of their situations and lurking around trying to gain perspective prior to writing my first post, I'd love for them to weigh in with their thoughts.
Me: 34 WAW: 33 M: 4 T: 7 K: B2, B1 Bomb 12/08, sep in same house W moved out 2/09 w/K
Interesting little DB success story to share. After several very difficult days of not communicating (no phone calls, texts, etc) and giving her space, tonight W surprisingly shows up on my doorstep unannounced. She tells me she had gotten a sitter for the boys and she was on her way back to work (she's a retail manager for one of those big box stores so the schedule can be erratic) but wanted to stop by to pick up a few of the boys things.
What's interesting is that the stuff she wanted was all in storage in the basement and isn't even a necessity - especially at 7:30 pm after they'd already gone to bed, and certainly not a priority to pick up on her way back to work.
Anyway, the funny part is that I was just stepping out of the shower when she knocked so it was a bit awkward (had to hurry into some pj's and a t-shirt to get the door). I could tell she felt a bit awkward, apologized, and asked to get the stuff. I said sure, but just let me get dressed. I think she also noticed the 30 lbs. my 6'3" (now 185 lbs.) frame has dropped from my gut & love handles since all this stuff started. I can actually fit into suit pants I wore in college!
Anyway, I was about to go out and do something I haven't done in a long time... go hit golf balls at a driving range in advance of playing tomorrow with some buddies. I am an avid player (ex 5 handicapper) and I absolutely love the game. But once the boys came on to the scene I put golf in the backseat and I'm lucky if have found the time to play 10 times in the past 2-1/2 years - primarily only for business. Today and tomorrow are for me...
So I come down dressed to play (I always wear khaki pants and a nice polo when I play golf), and W asks - "What, are you going out on some kind of date?" That made me chuckle and put a smile on my face.
It appears that going dark, listening, and GAL work when you use them! For me, any kind of baby step is progress.
Me: 34 WAW: 33 M: 4 T: 7 K: B2, B1 Bomb 12/08, sep in same house W moved out 2/09 w/K
Another thought about her showing up unexpectedly tonight...
She bought a new car this past weekend (her birthday) and she may have wanted to show it off. Actually, she downsized considerably from the fully equipped soccer-mom mini-van she talked me into after No. 1 came along. Now she has one of those more economical, used...but nice, cross-over vehicles.
Anyway, she did me a favor, bought something on her own (I'm pretty sure she ended up getting screwed on the trade-in) and took a $20k balance off my credit report. For that I give her props. Time to p-a-r-t-y. j/k...
Me: 34 WAW: 33 M: 4 T: 7 K: B2, B1 Bomb 12/08, sep in same house W moved out 2/09 w/K
Hi, just wanted to welcome you to the community. I have to get ready for work and have not finished reading your posts, but I will tonight. Glad you found my list, and I have even added a couple of more to it (lol).
Talk to you later.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
