A new thread, a new outlook.....

[Very Scared 54]

Can it work

I have not responded to your post until today and I have not read all of you stich, but if I may add my 2 cents into this mix. I may have a unique perspective on your dilemma.

I think (PM) has a good idea. It seems to allow you time with WM and W without making into something too heavy. It sounds like a natural progression and the normal thing to do, even with a friend. Give some serious thought about (PM’s) plan.

My stich as come full circle and the W and I are back on track. (See WAS, My Final Post, Very Scared 54 for the story). It is ironic that our U-turn back began with a lunch date with W on her birthday. It was a short 1 and a half meal in a public restaurant of her choosing. I was very nervous about the meeting, but we had not seen each other for about 3 months, 4 days, 6 hours, and 12 minutes. This meeting gave me a little time to show her that I had made some changes. It gave me an opportunity to give her a small gift. Do some flattering, tell a few joke or funny stories, and do some very light flirting. We were able to talk about the kids and people we knew. We caught up on what we had been doing since we were separated. NO RELATIONSHIP TALK!!! The more we talked the more relaxed I became. And the gift, the gift was something relatively small and inexpensive and in my case it was silly. The gift related to something I knew she would like that no one else would know about.

I did not totally appreciate the importance of the meeting at the time. But, little did I know, that this short 1 ½ hour lunch would turn into the first step back. NOW! IT WAS THE FIRST OF MANY STEPS. But looking back it was actually the key that unlocks the door. The door that was locked just a few hours before was now unlocked and ready to be opened when the time was right. We had to take a lot more steps before we actually came back together for any meaningful rebuilding of our R/M. But we have made it through the forest and into the clearing. The clearing of fresh air, blue skies, green grass and sweet cool water.

Like I said I do not know that much about your stich, but it sounds like there is an opportunity here and you should strongly consider taking the chance. It may not give you the key to the lock, but it may bring the key closer to your grasp.

Good luck to you on what ever you decide to do. Just remember, keep your eye on the ball, take a slow and steady swing and shoot for the green.

VS54

[Can it work]

Thank you very much for your input VS. I read up on your thread and found comfort and hope in it. It always help to hear from someone who has come out the other side of this journey with a positive outcome. It gives hope to us all.

I don't blame you for not catching up on my whole sitch. I've stopped bothering linking it to my new threads any more because so much has changed since the beginning. To summarise it as quick as I can, my W left me in early January but it hadn't been right for a few months before that. Her parents set her up in a house more for my son than for her. I wouldn't like to see my Wee Man stuck in an awful house so I agreed with them on getting her the house. At the end of the day, if she comes back to me I want it to be for the right reasons. Not just because she's struggling in sub-standard accommodation. Things were awkward at first but after speaking to DB coaches I managed to remove the awkwardness and get us comfortable together if nothing else. I went as dark as I could but with a young son it was impossible to go completely dark. We only have 5 minute interactions when picking up/dropping off Wee Man. As far as I know there's nobody else involved yet.

So that brings me to PM's plan. I was meaning to reply to her anyway that I thought it was a great idea. I intend to try it out this weekend when I go to visit Wee Man. I intend to do it that early because I don't want her to go arranging something else first.

I do hope I can find this key you refer to but my W is an incredibly stubborn woman and I think it's going to take a lot of time to get through to her. Like you say in your thread, it's all about patience, patience, patience. I'm learning more all the time but I won't say it isn't a struggle. Thank you for giving me an extra bit of belief though VS. It means a lot.

Kev

[sandi2]

Hi Kev,

I apologize for getting side-tracked and not getting back with you. I'm bad to do that! Anyway, have done enough scanning of your thread to see that your W may be to the point of starting a "friendship" and I think if she still has no OM in her life.......IT IS GREAT!! So many young women get distracted by careers or other R's with people they don't need to be involved with, but if your W is not involved with another man after this length of time, then I would say to at least make an effort to be friends with her. I did not read all this thread but you said something that made me think perhaps she still like to go out an maybe party?? I think I know how that could drive you crazy if you thought much on the subject, so it is best not to do that.....if in fact, she is doing that. As you have heard it said many times here on the board.....you cannot control what she does......as long as she is not breaking the law or abusing your son.

I smiled when I read that she likes to get with you to "gossip" and you said something about one of her "girlfriends".......well, maybe that is a beginning at any rate. (lol) Seriously, let me ask you something. When she is gossiping about other women, does she make negative comments about them? A lot of times, this is a sign of insecurity in the woman who is doing the talking (in this case....your W). So, if she does do that......I'm thinking that it would be a perfect opportunity for you to inject something about how well your wife does.....(whatever)......or how great she looked at a particular time (be specific). Women love details, so don't say....."You always look great" b/c she wants to hear "when" she looked wonderful at what event and how was she looking (lol). So, it pays to be very alert and take mental notes, yes? I believe that if you start out a little slowly with these compliments (instead of flooding her all at once) that she will not get suspicious of your reason behind doing it. You don't want to push her away, but instead, you want to build up her self-esteem. Do you know that women want to be around the person that makes them feel really great about themselves? The better she feels about herself when she is with you.....the more she will want to be with you! But, don't be too general with your compliments or comments. Like I said, be able to give details or she will brush you off and see you as pursuing instead of giving her ego food.

You asked me over on my thread if I thought what I told Stuck would fit your stitch as well. I certainly do. Even if I lost track with you.....I believe I remember telling you that if she ever cooled down from being so angry that maybe the two of you could become friends and that would be a step in the right direction. So, yes, I do believe it is worth the effort and especially the "waiting" b/c it will take another round of a different type of patient for you while walking through a friendship R.

As I told Stuck, you must not.....CANNOT.....think of yourself as her HUSBAND. It will ruin everything if you allow your mind to wander there. You know what will happen to yourself if you do and she certainly is not ready for it. It will be like trying to win the confidence of a wild animal. May not be a very "sweet" termonology, but if you ever tried to get a wild animal to go to you to eat out of your hand.....then you can realize what you are up against. It may not be quite the comparrison, but close. If you push toward her, or hurry the process, she will run scared. Just like a wild animal, you can't force the issue and must allow her to come to you in her own time. Tiny, baby steps and earning her trust will eventually win her confidence in you to not break her heart and to go to you as a woman........then, hopefully as a wife. First, you have to win her friendship and if she like to gossip with you.....then you almost have it made.... When together, have lots and lots of pure fun. No dramatics......but lots of laughter and silliness (if she likes to be silly....if not, then don't). I know of nothing better for a R than pure old fashion FUN.

You were wondering about asking her out for dinner on her birthday/Father's Day. My suggestion is to think of something that is much, much less formal and risking a chance of tension. Why not a picnic, instead? A dinner or even lunch may be a bit too much to start with. Do you understand what I mean? Always keep the mood light-hearted and fun......unless, of course she is upset about something, then that is the time to listen and validate.

Does she like surpises? If so, let me know and I'll put on my "thinking cap" and we'll come up with something fun to do. Now, you were concerned about how you were going to work on this friendship when you only saw her for about 5 minutes at a time. First of all......you know you MUST look extremly HOT every time she sees you for those 5 minutes....right? Okay. (Or is is "cool" instead of hot....oh well.....just look great and not tooooo much of a "threat" to her right now. Do you know what I mean by a threat? You want to look sexy, right? However, if she is afraid to trust her own heart/feelings where you are concerned......well, don't make the girl faint the first time.....that's all I'm saying!

Seriously, the sexiness is part of those baby-steps you take. Sure you want to "look" sexy and you want to act a bit out of "reach" for her (play a bit hard to get) and always flash her a sexy smile and maybe work up to the point you can even throw in a wink. OMG.......to me, that is the sexiest, most flirtatious thing there is........for a man to give a woman a wink of the eye.

Women notice how a man smells. That is very important. Do you remember her saying if she perferred a particular type of cologne on you? If so......wear it every time you know you will be in ten miles of her....lol. Just don't wear so much she can smell you for ten miles! The best thing that most women like is the smell of pure male cleanliness. Doesn't matter if you are the "rugged" type or the college prep.......I think the majority of females just love that clean male scent. Do you wear the syle of clothes she likes to see on you? Don't forget, that is important to females. Are you wearing your hair in the cut she likes best? Are you working on breaking any personal bad habits that she use to complain about? This might sound silly to some guys, but to most every woman I have know.....these things I've talked about was very important and could make or break a R.

Women watch the way guys stand and walk and basically move around. What you would not even consider as being sexy or masculine.....is the very thing that could touch her heart and remind her of how she truly feels about you. The way you speak words......oh wow! A man's voice does things to a female....... He can make butterflies in her tummy or make her so mad she could bite nails.......depending on his tone of voice. At first, you may want to rely on emails to communicate so there will be no pressure on her....but hopefully, you can move on to phone calls so she can hear your voice. That is an important element.

I don't tell you all these things to put more pressure on you! I tell you these things about women so you may see what affects her and how you have these things "working" for you, okay? Don't get self-conscious about how you stand, walk, or talk......try to be natural, but just the best that you can be. That is what we are always telling people here on the board, isn't it?

Kev, I used to think the two of you would have a good chance at rebuilding a life together and I still do. It took time for her to just now get to this place where she is barely allowing you a bit of her time. So, can you be strong and patient enough to give her more time and take things slowly? I think you can.

I will check back with you, and let me know what you decide about the birthday dinner. If you still want to do that.....I would strongly suggest a very "family friendly" place to eat so it will not seem formal and therefore put any stress on either of you.

Take care,
Sandi

[sandi2]

Oh, I have to add this before I forget.......never.....NEVER....refer to when the two of you were married or the R or get into a R discussion unless it is months on down the road from now. That would absolutely KILL A FRIENDSHIP IN A SECOND. (Sorry, I didn't mean to shout!) But understand, Kev, that your heart will "want" to discuss some things and to remind her how good the two of you were together, but please don't do it or she will run off. Remember......a wild, scared animal.

[Can it work]

Thank you for your response Sandi

I really needed a pick me up because I'm beginning to get a bit disheartened again with the fact that nothing's going on. I'll try to respond to some key points in your reply...

I did not read all this thread but you said something that made me think perhaps she still like to go out an maybe party??

She is indeed heading out to party fairly often. She's still young and it's what all her friends are doing. I've learned to shut out thoughts of what she may be doing. They weren't doing me any good. I live in a small community and I've certainly not heard anything's going on with her so I'm just taking that as a good chance that there isn't.

Seriously, let me ask you something. When she is gossiping about other women, does she make negative comments about them?

Not excessively so I don't think. It really depends who she's speaking about. It has been known to happen though. I never looked at it as an indication she was feeling insecure though. Interesting concept.

So, if she does do that......I'm thinking that it would be a perfect opportunity for you to inject something about how well your wife does.....(whatever)......or how great she looked at a particular time (be specific).

I do always look for opportunities to do this but to be honest it's difficult sometimes. It's fairly often that when I go round to pick up Wee Man that she's sitting around in her pyjamas. Although I think she looks great no matter what she's wearing, I don't know if she'd believe me if I complimented her for that. I do often compliment her parenting skills for the way she does certain things with Wee Man. Never get any back though!

When together, have lots and lots of pure fun. No dramatics......but lots of laughter and silliness (if she likes to be silly....if not, then don't). I know of nothing better for a R than pure old fashion FUN.

We used to have so much fun together but I do find it a struggle sometimes to make her laugh now. I really try not to let it show but it does feel a bit false to continue acting the fool when it's not getting taken the right way.

You were wondering about asking her out for dinner on her birthday/Father's Day. My suggestion is to think of something that is much, much less formal and risking a chance of tension. Why not a picnic, instead? A dinner or even lunch may be a bit too much to start with. Do you understand what I mean? Always keep the mood light-hearted and fun......unless, of course she is upset about something, then that is the time to listen and validate.

PM came up with a great suggestion of asking her if I could take Wee Man out for lunch on Father's Day and then asking, almost as an afterthought, if she'd made any plans. I have to admit I liked the plan and it's what I was planning on going with.

Does she like surpises? If so, let me know and I'll put on my "thinking cap" and we'll come up with something fun to do.

I would always welcome new ideas. I'm a DAM so these things don't always come naturally to me. I do like what I did for her b-present though (from Wee Man, not from me). I had a fantastic black and white photo of Wee Man sleeping and he looks so cute in it! Anyway, I got it made in to canvas for her. I know she'll like it. Hopefully it won't be so much that she looks at it as pursuing though.

First of all......you know you MUST look extremly HOT every time she sees you for those 5 minutes....right?

This is something I definitely try to do every time I see her. Somemes I pick up Wee Man straight after work but that's ok because she always said she thought I looked completely hot in a suit.

Kev, I used to think the two of you would have a good chance at rebuilding a life together and I still do. It took time for her to just now get to this place where she is barely allowing you a bit of her time. So, can you be strong and patient enough to give her more time and take things slowly? I think you can.

I think I can too Sandi and thank you for thinking that my W and I can still have a life together. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to say that to make it seem a little bit more likely.

I will check back with you, and let me know what you decide about the birthday dinner. If you still want to do that.....I would strongly suggest a very "family friendly" place to eat so it will not seem formal and therefore put any stress on either of you.

It was always going to be a very informal, family friendly place. After all, this is a quick snack lunch to enjoy some time on Father's day with my son. I never thought it was going to be a chance for a nice romantic meal for my W and I. Anyhoo, she may just say no. I'll not have to worry about where to go then!

Kev

[Can it work]

Finally it's Friday once again! I've not got Wee Man this weekend so I think I may just have a relaxing one for a change. I will be taking some time to visit him though. To that end I think I'll give my W a phone tonight to speak about it. Hopefully we'll have another pleasant conversation. The last couple of phone calls have been pretty good so I'm quite hopeful about this next one too. I just get the impression that she finds it easier to talk to me when she doesn't have to look me in the face. Is that normal for a WAW?

I'm still not sure when I'm going to bring up this lunch idea that I have planned. Probably doing it sooner rather than later would be sensible since my W will be less likely to have plans already in place. Guess I'll see how the phone call goes tonight.

Kev

[PositivelyMommy]

Good luck, Kev!

[Can it work]

Well, I dropped to my W in passing that I wanted to take Wee Man for lunch on Father's day. She didn't have a problem with that at all. I then said that if she didn't have any plans, since it was her birthday she could joinus if she wanted as I didn't want to deprive her of Wee Man on her big day. She declined saying that it was ok, she'd probably spend most of the day at her parents' house. Not exactly the response I was hopling for but it does show that she doesn't want to spend time with me. It would have been less of a blow if she'd actually made other plans but she hadn't. Oh well, I guess it's either too soon or it's never going to happen. One of those possibilites has to be the true one. Either way though, it was a disappointment.

I'm taking Wee Man away for the weekend for my niece's 4th birthday party. I'm really looking forward to it actually as it's the first time he'll have been with all his first cousins at one time. It should be fun. Since I'm taking him away for the 4 nights, my W wasn't happy for me to have him Tuesday, Wednesday night this week. She's also decided that I shouldn't have him Tuesday, Wednesday next week since I'm only coming home on Monday night and she won't have seen hom for a while. I almost feel robbed because she's taking my time with my son away. My DB coach advised me not to argue about trying to apend more time with Wee Man but it's really hard just to lie down and take it. She only has to go without him for 4 nights on this one occasion. I have to go without him for 5 nights every second week! I really don't know what I should do here as I really want to spend the time with my son but I don't want to rock the boat with my W. I did try to discuss it sensibly and calmly but she basically told me it's not going to happen and that's that. I let it go then because it would have ended up as an argument and I really want to avoid that. I could force her to give me more time with her as I have my rights as a father. Right now though it feels as though I have to choose between getting more time with Wee Man and ruining my marriage for good or giving her more time with him and still having a possibility of reconcilliation. I just can't see an alternative at the moment and it's really upsetting me. Any advice would be most appreciated.

Kev

[Very Scared 54]

Kev

I am sorry about the answer you got from your W about Father’s day. It could be too soon and she is not ready to take that step. The first one is always the hardest one. It could be as hard on her as it is on you. You did real well on backing off. Spending time with your son is just as important, if not more important, as spending time with the W.

I had the same feels as you have now many times. I know how hard it is on you. I did not have a child(s) involved, but I know that it would be even harder than it was. I took it in stride and move on with GAL and improving my positive out look on my own life. That is all you can do at this moment in time.

Do not give up. Keep your head up, do not gravel or peruse. Go on with your life. It is hard to do. I took a basic motorcycle-driving course. It was something I wanted to do for me, but my excitement was subdue some what, because I could not keep my mind off of my failing R. I made it through and started bought a bike and started riding. I started having finding out that each time I went out on a road trip my thoughts of my R were not in the forefront of my mind. It was always in the back of my mind, but it was getting easier to actually enjoy myself. That then started to improve my out look on my life. Which was seen in my step, my eyes, my attitude and the way I felt about myself. It was a good thing.

That then scared me as well; I still want to still fight for my M. So I used it as another tool to use in my fight towards reconciliation. It sound weird, I know, but the better I felt about myself the stronger I got in my overall stich. It was contagious. She saw the new me and like what she saw. “OR” at least that what it appeared to do.

Each STICH is deterrent, but the same. Hang in there. Keep your eye on the green. Stay away from the water traps, but if you go in, one just swim out, die off and start over. You have to get up one more time than you get knock down.

VS

[Can it work]

Thank you very much for your input VS. You're completely right that I can't give up just yet. Although I'm fast approaching the 6 month mark, my desire to reconcile with my W has not abated in the least. I just wish it wouldn't feel like such a futile quest sometimes.

I went down to my W's house last night to spend time with Wee Man since I'm not getting him on my usual nights this week. I was hoping that to have some good conversation with my W while I was there too but pretty much as soon as I arrived, she took the opportunity to go out a walk. Still, I had a good time with Wee Man and my W did come back before he went down to bed. We did have a bit of a chat then and I'll admit that it wasn't completely unpleasant. I do get the feeling sometimes though that she's being pleasant with me because she feels she has to since I'm the father of her child. If we'd been in this same situation without ever having Wee Man I doubt if I'd get the time of day. No sense in thinking about that I suppose.

So, I'm going for another visit tomorrow night although she's already told me she's going to go out a walk to give me and Wee Man some time alone together. I'd rather she stick around and enjoy the time with us but I can't see any way of suggesting that without sounding as though I'm pursuing. I did tell her that she shouldn't feel she has to leave her own house on my account but it fell on deaf ears. She wanted to get out a walk anyway.

Let's just say I'm beginning to struggle again with all this as it feels like so long since we separated. I'm just beginning to wonder if it's ever going to happen.

Kev